Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[KuroiXHF]

Hey guys! I'm excited when I looked through the first three names of my player list and found that they were in my first and only modded game on MS.

I through forward to playing with all of them, and all of you as well!

I'll get caught up tonight.

[Chip Butty]

I think the only way this works is that if Ranger is actually the Mafia Traitor and she is signaling to her team to pick the JOAT role as well as alert them she is the traitor, because the 2 goons obviously don't know who the traitor is. This would allow them either to pick another PR or at the very least not have to use the recruit and give town another PR.

But consider - why would Ranger need to signal unless she was exactly the traitor? The traitor knows who the goons are at game-start, so the goons (or JOAT if your theory had any credence) wouldn't need to soft/signal to the traitor. You could say that she's the traitor and that was a signal to the goons that she is the traitor and they should pick JOAT for the ninja and save them from recruiting.

I like these responses - a mini Copernican Revolution right there! : They remove the main problem I saw for the theory, which was "Why would Ranger as future-JOAT need to signal?" I only had the lame answer that she just wanted to give the traitor as much info as possible, but these answers are way better. I'm particularly impressed by ploben, who posted it first. You're looking less scummy for that, I have to say. Sorry Panther, second poster never gets the kudos in this game, but it was brave of you to echo the theory.

[PantherPunt]

karnos/dunn does not feel like town/town back and forth. Noted in case one flips, subsequently I'm reading dunn as town.

Scott, how does something feel not town/town?

I know I can read something and determine it's not scum/scum, but I'm not sure I've ever seen someone say what you did here.....

subtextsubtextsubtext

[PantherPunt]

I don't need the kudos chip I'm just here to replace in, eat a bullet, and go on my merry way

[Chip Butty]

I don't need the kudos chip I'm just here to replace in, eat a bullet, and go on my merry way

With that kind of selfless community spirit, you just

have

to be Town, LOL.

[PantherPunt]

LOOK AT ME I'M SO TOWN

[ploben]

Yeah you are Panther

[Dunnstral]

There is no innocent child it would've been revealed at day start

Interesting that Dunnstral knows this, like he specifically checked prior to the game start.

Because I did
You didn't check what the setup of the game you were joining is...? Don't lie to me.

Has anyone read in such a way they were looking for potential signaling from traitor to goons? I'm mad that I didn't bc I was completely backwards on how traitor works. Where I play, the pack knows who the loner is, but not vice versa. Here, it's the opposite.

Moot if recruitment happened. This isn't a "townslip" as I'm fully capable of making this post as scum. I really just want to know if anyone was looking out for it or thinks they saw something resembling signaling somewhere.

(Signaling happens where I'm from bc often times the loner has a vig and if they target a bro they join the pack). As I continue to think about it, it's a weird dynamic. If they didn't recruit, the goons need to be careful that they don't lynch the traitor so there definitely is some semblance of motive for the traitor to try to tell the goons "don't push me bro."

I'd just recruit to eliminate that. I'd probably recruit and assign a JOAT and a rolecop. Because YOLO don't be a puss etc

So are you suggesting that people like ploben/Karnos or other people who get pushed are likely not a mafia traitor if there's no signalling?

Would need to look for people changing their minds about a lynch too

You gonna delete my ninja postin?

Here's a thought that I would like some comment on: Ranger as JOAT. Yes, my RVS joke again, but not joking so much this time. In fact, not joking.

This post from Ranger containing the possible codeword "ninja" appeared just six minutes after the OP. That is, when the phase 1 role-PMs were circulating, but BEFORE scum decided which extra powers they wanted and whether to recruit.

So, that kills it, right?

That's what I was thinking up until recently. But, consider this: Scum role mods are CHOSEN, while Town ones are RANDOM. That means that, even though the Mafia discussion about whether to recruit and what powers to get was still in the future when this post appeared, scum!Ranger could be virtually certain of getting JOAT simply by telling her scummate she wanted it. That means she could signal early with confidence. The timestamps turn out to be irrelevant. Why signal? Because she intended to not recruit the traitor, and thus limit the number of additional powers Town would get.

Thoughts?

I would like to comment on this after Ranger responds to it.

Actually, you know what, screw it. I don't think it matters either way if I wait for her to respond to it. I can't imagine the response is going to reveal anything other than a pre-game post. Saying that, here is my take:

I think the only way this works is that if Ranger is actually the Mafia Traitor and she is signaling to her team to pick the JOAT role as well as alert them she is the traitor, because the 2 goons obviously don't know who the traitor is. This would allow them either to pick another PR or at the very least not have to use the recruit and give town another PR.

lmao...I had this typed and then moved it into notepad bc I said I wanted to see Ranger respond to Chip. but since you already said it, I might as well share the text I cut from the end of that post now:

But consider - why would Ranger need to signal unless she was exactly the traitor? The traitor knows who the goons are at game-start, so the goons (or JOAT if your theory had any credence) wouldn't need to soft/signal to the traitor. You could say that she's the traitor and that was a signal to the goons that she is the traitor and they should pick JOAT for the ninja and save them from recruiting.

Uhhh, guys that was before role pms were sent out

I said that already

[Dunnstral]

Panther you still think Ranger is scum? I thought she was town telling when she started explaining everything

[PantherPunt]

well I'm a replacement. but talking about timestamps on role PMs is a modkill where I'm from. idk about here or not so I suggest nobody explicitly states the time of their role PM

[PantherPunt]

Panther you still think Ranger is scum? I thought she was town telling when she started explaining everything

It seems Ranger has a posting schedule of roughly 5PM EST to 5AM EST with the brunt of it falling in the middle to latter middle portion of that range. Unfortunately, that's when I'm usually away. I may try to watch for her to come on so I can get some real-time interaction going. That's when I best read people.

She's showed me some town-indicative things (which I have some reservations about because they only came after I called her out and got some people slightly nodding with my sentiment that she's done nothing), but obviously there are some things I didn't like as I've asked her to clarify some things that don't make sense wrt her having a town (read: genuine solving) perspective.

.

[Dunnstral]

I understand Ploben but I have no idea how duppin gets roped into that too, guess he shouldn't have dared to rvs vote karnos and call out the dumb ploben stuff

Also since when does the entire mafia team pile onto an rvs vote? Also why does it feel like karnos doesn't care about what ranger is saying...?

well I'm a replacement. but talking about timestamps on role PMs is a modkill where I'm from. idk about here or not so I suggest nobody explicitly states the time of their role PM

err I didn't mention timestamps

Just look down a few posts where he says he sends out the role pms then and it's after that pre-game stuff

[Dunnstral]

OK fair enough, guess I got that real time interaction I had wanted

[Dunnstral]

Oh hey it's kuroi

[PantherPunt]

err I didn't mention timestamps

Just look down a few posts where he says he sends out the role pms then and it's after that pre-game stuff

I noticed that, yes. I don't want to talk about this stuff much more really because it's shooting an angle that's outside the spirit of the game imo.

It's why people shouldn't be allowed to (or if they are, just not do it) post before mod declares Day 1 has started.

[Persivul]

well I'm a replacement. but talking about timestamps on role PMs is a modkill where I'm from. idk about here or not so I suggest nobody explicitly states the time of their role PM

Correct - quoting the time of your role PM is quoting your role PM. Please don't do it.

[PantherPunt]

that being said, if Ranger flips traitor, I'm going to flip a table, bc post 3 is bullshit in that world. ok now I'm done on the subject

[PantherPunt]

BTD and duppin were lurking about 20 minutes ago but they're offline now. just a note

[ploben]

that being said, if Ranger flips traitor, I'm going to flip a table, bc post 3 is bullshit in that world. ok now I'm done on the subject

Yeah, it's far fetched. But kudos to Chip, I'm thinking he's town now.

[BTD6_maker]

Karnos still seems scummy, and is a moderate scum read. Chip Butty is a weak scum read.

I weakly townread Florestan and Dunstrall. Ploben is a moderate town read.

[Dunnstral]

Chip has been town all game

Karnos still seems scummy, and is a moderate scum read. Chip Butty is a weak scum read.

I weakly townread Florestan and Dunstrall. Ploben is a moderate town read.

Did you post this because panther called you out?

[Dunnstral]

ploben think you need to change that signature by the way until the game ends

[karnos]

You know, something came to mind among this whole ranger signalling theory. In other games with a traitor role, multiple town players will "signal" as being the traitor. Why? It's pro-town to confuse the mafia so they don't actually know who the real traitor is, and personal incentive of being less likely to be night killed.

In other words, a "traitor signal", in itself, can be a town tell just as much as a scum tell.

[PantherPunt]

Karnos still seems scummy, and is a moderate scum read. Chip Butty is a weak scum read.

I weakly townread Florestan and Dunstrall. Ploben is a moderate town read.

Rule of 3 on florestan Dunn and ploben if btd is scum. My money is on florestan bc btd said he likes to null-town read his buds in werewolf chat in that open game, and Dunn has been giving me good feels all game

[PantherPunt]

I don't see why talking about objective things is having little actual content. I was doing it quite a lot in my two completed games, Newbie 1700 and Open 638.

you have this problem, though, where you only seem to want to make a post when it's in response to someone saying something about you or asking you a direct question

you're not posting of your own volition with an intent to discern the alignments of others...what some like to call scumhunting

.