Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Chip Butty]

Oh, no, guys! Now that the theory in its original form has been shot down, this eagerness to advance it without due scrutiny doesn't look so Towny anymore. In fact, scum would be delighted to back a scheme that painted Town.Ranger as scum, right? I'm going to need those cookies back.

Yep! Pretty much exactly what I said...

Chip Butty I can see making the mistake. (In fact, he townslipped hard in that post. I'll let people guess where, but there's something he said which mafia would know is false.)
Both PantherPunt and ploben, not so much. They're both scum hopping on an opportunistic wagon.

^Here.

Yeah, never underestimate the power of floating a scheme. Even if you get it slightly wrong - perhaps

especially

if you get it slightly wrong - you stand to get some potentially telling reactions.

Ranger: I'd like to hear from her why she gave duppen such an easy pass and high ranking.

Nulltown is not a high ranking. Believe me, he's not high. That read came mostly from not having any real issue with what he's said, but having a decent early RVS. I.e., sort-of town but not really town. He's more true null now (BTD6 is still nulltown, meaning BTD6 is now above him ranking-wise), pending further content, but he's no high townread of mine.

Yeah, didn't mean to imply your ranking of duppen was HIGH, just that it was higher than I would put him.

Other than that, her rankings looked largely okay by me, but I would expect that from either Town.Ranger or scum.Ranger. Kuroi: Def half-assed his readthrough. It looks scummy but I have so many scum candidates: duppen and yourself, for a start. ploben still isn't off my hook, Panther is a def maybe, and Ranger as a wildcard.

Your scumreads are literally identical to mine. Your pool is {duppin, Dunnstral, ploben, PantherPunt, Kuroi}. The only difference between your list and mine is that Scott's not off my radar, and looks slightly worse than duppin. Otherwise, exactly the same.

I'm not ruling out Scott either, at this point. He has posted very little despite promising to increase his posting rate after the weekend. And what he HAS posted hasn't looked that good. I'll ISO him when I have a spare two minutes, LOL.

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.8

karnos (3) - duppin, BTD6, scott brosius
Ploben (3) - chip butty, karnos, ranger
KuroiXHF (2) - shadow, ploben
Ranger (3) - pantherpunt, florestan, dunnstral

Not voting (1) - kuroiXHF

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

[Dunnstral]

Chip - You don't think that Ranger's recent posting combined with her other stuff looks scummy, regardless of any traitor tells?

There's also the possibility that traitor was just recruited so we really can't draw conclusions from there being no traitor softs after all

[Chip Butty]

Chip - You don't think that Ranger's recent posting combined with her other stuff looks scummy, regardless of any traitor tells?

There's also the possibility that traitor was just recruited so we really can't draw conclusions from there being no traitor softs after all

Yes, ranger's recent interaction with you did strike me as slightly off, but I'll need to read it through again before further comment.

I didn't say we could draw conclusions from no traitor softs - just that this discussion ought to have the practical result of making comms between unrecruited-traitor!Ranger and her buddies very risky.

[Dunnstral]

Chip if Ranger is scum what do you think it means that she's pushing on Ploben right now? Do you think Ploben would be more or less likely to be scum

I say less likely.

[Chip Butty]

Chip if Ranger is scum what do you think it means that she's pushing on Ploben right now? Do you think Ploben would be more or less likely to be scum

I say less likely.

TBH, your side of your recent interaction with Ranger also looked a bit off. Let me get back to you when I have had a decent look at your ISO, and gone over recent Ranger<->Dunstrall.

Noted: more ploben defense. That's been a persistent theme with you, as with duppen.

[Chip Butty]

No offense but your reads suck,

Why are you even soliciting my opinions, anyway?

[ploben]

Just from catching up from last night to this morning, I'm getting sick and tired of all the "Chip Town Slips". They are starting to look like they're not genuine. And I'd have to question the players that keep bringing them up.

Off the top of my head I think that would be:
Ranger
Dunnstral
Panther
Karnos

If anyone can help me out with that one that would be great.

[Chip Butty]

I don't see the mod confirmation. Claiming a role when no reason to claim it, and claiming a role that can be mod confirmed without the mod confirm? That seems scummy as hell to me.
UNVOTE: Ranger

How so? You think mafia claims as innocent child at game start? Why is it scummy?

This ploben mini-wagon is dumb but here's a good one:

VOTE: karnos

RVS is over boys everyone vote karnos

I think proben claimed while not realizing that Innocent Child is confirmed by Mod. Mod has since checked in with a vote count and hasn't confirmed an Innocent Child in the game, much less proben being it. Conclusion: there probably isn't an Innocent Child, so proben has been caught out fakeclaiming. I see two possibilities:

1. He is scum. But this would be a dumb play because Town would surely notice the lack of Mod confirmation;
2. He is Town trying to attract the NK, but this would be a dumb play because scum would surely notice the lack of Mod confirmation.

Oh well, if RVS is over:
UNVOTE:
VOTE: proben

Forget my first two points. There needs to be a wagon on ChipBuddy. It's the most obvious joke claim.

Here is a question for the "ploben was making a joke about IC; pushing him is scummy/dumb" club, of which Kuroi is the latest member: WHY DO YOU THINK RVS IS A THING?

Here is the answer: It is a thing because we have literally nothing to go on at the start of the game. We depend on RVS to provide us with at least SOMETHING to go on. Sometimes, Town catches a break and a scum really slips in RVS - I've seen it happen, and pushed that scum til he got lynched D1, despite persistent accusations of tunneling being leveled at me (Newbie 1704).

But, even if that doesn't happen, we need to take SOMETHING out of RVS, otherwise it might as well not exist. It might be something little, maybe not even a real slip, but pushing it still can help because it generates discussion, gets reactions, generates associations.

So, complaining about me and karnos pushing on ploben's IC "claim" is either dumb or scum. Nobody came up with anything better out of RVS, and the only other real push was the push on karnos which, as someone who was pushing it admitted, had absolutely no basis.

Our task now is to look at the members of aforementioned club, and decide who is dumb and who is scum.

[ploben]

I think Chip just keeps pandering to everyone with these "slips" because he is being town read for them. I am reconsidering my 568, they are not looking townie or genuine. I think it's a continuation to muddy the waters. Either way, Chip's got some good interactions and associations we can look at in D2 after his flip.

VOTE: Chip Butty

[PantherPunt]

Just from catching up from last night to this morning, I'm getting sick and tired of all the "Chip Town Slips". They are starting to look like they're not genuine. And I'd have to question the players that keep bringing them up.

Off the top of my head I think that would be:
Ranger
Dunnstral
Panther
Karnos

If anyone can help me out with that one that would be great.

"all the Chip Town Slips"
have people said there were others?

I'm only referring to the ones at the very beginning, page 2, where he didn't know how the scum roles worked.

I call these "derpclears" (some say dumbtells). In my experience, they come from town ~90% of the time. Scum will try to do it intentionally sometimes, but it's hard to make it look natural. I think Chip's is just a legit misunderstanding and I'm not voting him today.

Outside of that, he's had a couple darn townie posts. I can cite them if you'd like, but I doubt you're going to get steam on that wagon.

Did Kuroi's posting make you not want to vote them?

[PantherPunt]

now to go back and dig into my pal Ranger's posts

[PantherPunt]

Yes scum post townie things, you should try it.

My point is the posts you called ploben scummy for aren't even his scummy posts. The one where you said "go girlfrand" isn't a towny post in the world you find the other posts scummy. If you believe it is please help me understand your thoughts.

Also, the comment about shadow in the first wall post, can you elaborate on that and clarify your meaning there too please?

You don't seem to know my play style, so I can understand why you'd think that, but I highly suggest you read me games and see why I wouldn't.

Also, if you're referring to 231, I'm saying that Shadow appears to be scum reading Alpaca for reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking. Obviously there wasn't lurking because Alpaca was replaced. I'm here. (Tada!)

(I'm ignoring the fact that you ignored my point about the ploben "go girlfrand" thing that makes no sense).
In no way, shape, or form was Shadow scum reading Alpaca for 'reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking.' You're making things up in my opinion. Show me where in this post you got that:

Just caught up and when I first read the Ploben thing I completely dismissed it as a joke because of the brackets and fun things inside them and was pretty surprised when people took it seriously. What he's doing/claiming to do not sure on that one yet, is a thing called Slayer's Gambit (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit) and is probably not a great way to go about finding scum but is a strategy that you can use.

I didn't like Alpaca's entry.
He tried to passively dismiss the case on you, it looks like he reads you as town but did not state it explicitly to avoid suspicion(I think).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alpaca

I would really like to lynch this guy

[KuroiXHF]

I don't care about what you did in other games because we're in this game now thanks

I addressed this in 651:

Unless you take the viewpoint that previous games are entirely irrelevant and meta is absolutely nonapplicable...you're darn-right I did. Because that game is relevant to this game, by simple virtue of your reaction to me compared to your prior experience with me.

Different players, same basic circumstance: how a player has seen me in a past game IS relevant to the current game, because if I see behavior that does not match my expectation of them, then there may be a reason for that.

For instance?

Kuroi, in his catchup, not

once

mentioning me.
Not. once.

That's an example of past games being relevant to the present game, because every past game I've had with Kuroi, he's held focus on me for at least part of the day.

I'm not going to lie. I find that odd as well. I'll maybe ISO if I have the chance to tonight.

So you're arguing that kuroi is town because Panther and I were pushing him?

Yes. BECAUSE,

There's only 3 scum in the game.

Of ^this. There's only three. I have a very, very,

very

strong {ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt} scumteam. It's not just individual posts, either, it's also your buddy-buddy reactions and trivial questions to each other that you never bother to follow through on. Given that, and your push on Kuroi, it's basically impossible for him to be scum, even though his posting contains basically nothing town.

I'll be honest - I'm a bit uncomfortable knowing that you're so confident that I'm scum. Again, when I go through the ISO.

Votecount 1.8

karnos (3) - duppin, BTD6, scott brosius
Ploben (3) - chip butty, karnos, ranger
KuroiXHF (2) - shadow, ploben
Ranger (3) - pantherpunt, florestan, dunnstral

Not voting (1) - kuroiXHF

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

I really don't like any of these lynches at this current time - especially not the KuroiXHF wagon.

I think Chip just keeps pandering to everyone with these "slips" because he is being town read for them. I am reconsidering my 568, they are not looking townie or genuine. I think it's a continuation to muddy the waters. Either way, Chip's got some good interactions and associations we can look at in D2 after his flip.

VOTE: Chip Butty

OK. This I can get behind.
VOTE: Chip Butty

now to go back and dig into my pal Ranger's posts

'kay

[PantherPunt]

I don't believe that you believe your panther and dunn reads. That was the read I really wanted to hear and I got none of it.

I'm not in the mood to make them tonight, but given the pages' worth of content since then, as soon as I'm in the mood to make them, I will.

Does anyone else see how this reads, like I see how this reads?

She acknowledges that there are pages worth of content since then. She doesn't acknowledge that she's using that information to inform her reads. She said she had me and Dunn near the bottom earlier on, and she is going to make cases on us when she's in the mood (assumingly off of content that causes her to put as that bottom as well as the "pages worth of content" since she made the read).

It smacks of an agenda and shows me that her reads are not in a state of flux, but rather decided. Can't wait to see her put her money where her mouth is.

That

is casing. And THAT is what my PantherPunt case will look like.

Spoiler:

-snip *useless continuation of talk about a previous game* snip-

Your stated reason for suspecting me, along with voting me, was, and I QUOTE,

ranger has given no content. she will argue that her read lists are content. I will argue that that's bullshit because she has failed to show her thought process behind any of those reads with the exception of the hideously terrible justification for the shadowguy read

My whole point here is that

you already know this is false

. Yes, readslists are content.

Yes, I had not given thought processes AT THE TIME,

and still haven't for my main three scumreads.

But as I spent that post explaining, you know better than ANYONE that I post readslists with nothing else as town, with no thought processes given, until later. You therefore know that the reason for suspecting me is, as you so adequately said...bullshit.

In short:

I'm not saying "I do this only as town"

. I'm saying, "You've seen me do this as town, and this is

your main given reason for scumreading me

, which is a fundamental contradiction". As in, flat-out, your entire. given. reasoning. Was, "Ranger hasn't posted reasons, and that is scummy", when your experience with me was...me not posting reasons, as town, meaning you DARN well should know better especially given

you blacklisted me for it

. That's not something I see you forgetting.

-snip *useless continuation of talk about a previous game* snip-

1) You say you provide reasons when asked. You were asked and you didn't. I voted you to see if it lit a fire under your ass. It has. It turns out you haven't convinced me you're town to this point.

ok all caught up. I want to lynch Ranger until I have any reason to think she's town. the fact that others pointed out the fallacy of her shadowguy read (the only one she's given) yet she decided not to respond to it at all is definitely interesting

2) I am aware that you have, in the past, posted read lists with no thought process as town, yes. You are construing this into a logical fallacy whereby I called you lock scum for that reason. When you, yourself, acknowledge that you open games that way as both town and scum.

You scumreading ME on the basis that I should KNOW you're

CAPABLE

of posting read lists without thought processes as town is, simply put, laughable. No shit you're capable of it. But I'm never ever ever ever ever going to read you as town for that. Your game has been a whole lot of talk about non-relevant fluff (self-meta, mafia theory, previous games) as Dunn pointed out. Yet you keep saying "I haven't made my cases on my top scum reads YET, but I will."

How would you expect me to read you as town when you devote time to fluffing it up but you won't devote time to solving the game. i.e. saying who you think is scum, why, and engaging town reads of yours about your scum reads, or engaging your scum reads about the points you've raised against them. You're employing solid and sound scum tactics in delay, avoid, deflect, and waiting for something that you can just RESPOND to instead of showing novel thought.

[PantherPunt]

So you're arguing that kuroi is town because Panther and I were pushing him?

Yes. BECAUSE,

There's only 3 scum in the game.

Of ^this. There's only three. I have a very, very,

very

strong {ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt} scumteam. It's not just individual posts, either, it's also your buddy-buddy reactions and trivial questions to each other that you never bother to follow through on. Given that, and your push on Kuroi, it's basically impossible for him to be scum, even though his posting contains basically nothing town.

I'll be honest - I'm a bit uncomfortable knowing that you're so confident that I'm scum. Again, when I go through the ISO.

lolwut
she is calling you town by process of elimination because she nailed the whole scumteam.
this is a super weird combination of Ranger defending kuroi by way of scumreading others "very, very,

very

strongly" and Kuroi turning around and distancing from Ranger

now to go back and dig into my pal Ranger's posts

'kay

glad you quoted this post and said 'kay instead of responding to the post dedicated to you that immediately follows it in 687. hope to see that response.

[ploben]

So you're arguing that kuroi is town because Panther and I were pushing him?

Yes. BECAUSE,

There's only 3 scum in the game.

Of ^this. There's only three. I have a very, very,

very

strong {ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt} scumteam. It's not just individual posts, either, it's also your buddy-buddy reactions and trivial questions to each other that you never bother to follow through on. Given that, and your push on Kuroi, it's basically impossible for him to be scum, even though his posting contains basically nothing town.

I'll be honest - I'm a bit uncomfortable knowing that you're so confident that I'm scum. Again, when I go through the ISO.

Derp

[ploben]

"all the Chip Town Slips"
have people said there were others?

The tin foil theory with the signaling and JOAT mechanics pre-game.

Outside of that, he's had a couple darn townie posts. I can cite them if you'd like, but I doubt you're going to get steam on that wagon.

Please do.

Did Kuroi's posting make you not want to vote them?

Yes.

[ploben]

Did Kuroi's posting make you not want to vote them?

Yes.

Except the derpy distancing you pointed out, that is weird. It's not enough where I want to keep my vote there. The vote was a vote for lurking Alpaca. But I'm noting it in his file.

[KuroiXHF]

So you're arguing that kuroi is town because Panther and I were pushing him?

Yes. BECAUSE,

There's only 3 scum in the game.

Of ^this. There's only three. I have a very, very,

very

strong {ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt} scumteam. It's not just individual posts, either, it's also your buddy-buddy reactions and trivial questions to each other that you never bother to follow through on. Given that, and your push on Kuroi, it's basically impossible for him to be scum, even though his posting contains basically nothing town.

I'll be honest - I'm a bit uncomfortable knowing that you're so confident that I'm scum. Again, when I go through the ISO.

lolwut
she is calling you town by process of elimination because she nailed the whole scumteam.
this is a super weird combination of Ranger defending kuroi by way of scumreading others "very, very,

very

strongly" and Kuroi turning around and distancing from Ranger

now to go back and dig into my pal Ranger's posts

'kay

glad you quoted this post and said 'kay instead of responding to the post dedicated to you that immediately follows it in 687. hope to see that response.

I guess I didn't see that post, but I didn't list my reasons for wanting for lynch him. Are you saying that because I list my reasons, I didn't have a reason?

Also, I stand by with what I said about Ranger. I find it strange that someone is so certain fo who scum are early on in this game. If she nailed all scum, then everyone else is scum by elimination, and she only mentioned me.

[ploben]

Spoiler:

So you're arguing that kuroi is town because Panther and I were pushing him?

Yes. BECAUSE,

There's only 3 scum in the game.

Of ^this. There's only three. I have a very, very,

very

strong {ploben, Dunnstral, PantherPunt} scumteam. It's not just individual posts, either, it's also your buddy-buddy reactions and trivial questions to each other that you never bother to follow through on. Given that, and your push on Kuroi, it's basically impossible for him to be scum, even though his posting contains basically nothing town.

I'll be honest - I'm a bit uncomfortable knowing that you're so confident that I'm scum. Again, when I go through the ISO.

lolwut
she is calling you town by process of elimination because she nailed the whole scumteam.
this is a super weird combination of Ranger defending kuroi by way of scumreading others "very, very,

very

strongly" and Kuroi turning around and distancing from Ranger

now to go back and dig into my pal Ranger's posts

'kay

glad you quoted this post and said 'kay instead of responding to the post dedicated to you that immediately follows it in 687. hope to see that response.

I guess I didn't see that post, but I didn't list my reasons for wanting for lynch him. Are you saying that because I list my reasons, I didn't have a reason?

Also, I stand by with what I said about Ranger. I find it strange that someone is so certain fo who scum are early on in this game. If she nailed all scum, then everyone else is scum by elimination, and she only mentioned me.

What? Ranger was calling you town. What does "If she nailed all scum, then everyone else is scum by elimination, and she only mentioned me." mean?

[karnos]

I see I missed a lot of new stuff last night.

Hi KuroiXHF!

My reads have changed a bit. Doing that time-warping thing: as I read through, I was thinking I would change my vote of ploben. Then I saw his last two posts above and he convinced me to keep it right where it is. Obviously I am scum because I am sharing my thought process, right Dunnstral?

My old reads:

town
----
karnos - the only player I know for sure is myself.
Ranger - if ranger is scum we are doomed.
Shadow_step - seems to be using the sort of logic a town should use to catch scum.
Scott Brosius - i think he is misguided town, from my experiences a lot of town players who haven't played through a game with me think my posting style is scummy
AlpacaAlpaca - i think just a newbie town putting way too much credence in wiki info
Chip Butty - probably town, but it has crossed my mind that a scum might want to defend me to build some town cred when i flip. 80% likely town
Bulletproof Ben - can't read, no posts. statistically more likely to be town than scum.
Florestan - probably town that is just coming to some wrong conclusions, but could be scum
duppin - weird RVS vote planting and refusal to move, lack of recent posts. seems scummy to me.
ploben - either scum or very stubborn town who refuses to admit an error. uses a lot of non-logic and contradicts himself a lot, but I am starting to wonder if he is just dumb town
Dunnstral - one of two types. either very arrogant town that thinks he has everything figured out when he obviously doesn't, or scum trying to control the game in a very aggressive manner. if scum, I could easily see him turn on ploben on day 2 after i flip town. If town, he will probably convince himself he was right about ploben and go for chip, sinking the game for town if chip flips town. dangerous player for town either way.
BTD6_Maker - based on my experience playing with town.BTD and scum.BTD, this is clearly scum.BTD
----
scum

town
------
karnos - A perfect shining example of what it means to be a town player.
-----
chip butty - Hunting scum and refusing to be a follower, clear town play.
ranger - I just don't see the scum motivation, not today. The best scum.ranger tell is surviving the night, we can just wait and see.
----
florestan - I really don't like some of his posts but I can't equate dislike to a scum tell. I think he just has a certain way of writing that rubs me wrong, but I don't get a strong sense of scum from him.
KuroiXHF - His posts haven't swayed me either way. Compared to the below players, he seems townish, but it's not a strong read.
Shadow_step - the little I have seen from him gave me a legitimate town vibe, but there hasn't been enough content recently. Is this a scum happy to be generally read as town and now avoiding attention that could change that read?
---
PantherPunt - I don't have a strong read yet. The out of game drama between him and ranger that I suspect is clouding things, but that could be hiding a scum desire to lynch ranger as a strong town player.
Scott Brosius - His lack of posting has diminished my opinion of him slightly.
BTD6_Maker - I feel like he has fallen off the radar because he hasn't posted much. I still find his entry to voting me very scummy, but there can only be three scum in the game so I am starting to open up to the idea that I read him wrong.
--
duppin - I don't see anything by duppin that looks townish, not a single thing. I attribute his lack of recent posting as a bit of confusion about what to do since his wagon on me is getting smaller. He can't just immediately follow his scum partners new votes.
ploben - I was warming up to the idea of plobin being town, but his last few posts prior to this convinced me otherwise. He is just trying to start a new wagon to plant his vote.
Dunnstral - looking for a new wagon, latching onto the ranger wagon. Trying to control the game acting like a good scum hunting town, except he makes some really scummish posts about quick lynching and defending obvious scummy behavior of a few particular players.
-
SCUM

[PantherPunt]

However, shadow is saying that Alpaca is reading ploben as town because Alpaca is scum who knows ploben is town, and Alpaca is trying to get some credit for it when/should he flip town (this is further reinforced in 294, which you call a great continutation of the Alpaca case).

Not the way I read it. He said "Alpaca wanted to defuse the case on ploben, but without explicitly stating so as to avoid suspicion". To me, that reads the opposite: seeing ploben as SCUM.

I also see nothing in 294 which says Shadow thinks ploben is town

. I see him saying that Alpaca is trying to make it LOOK like ploben is town.

Are you even reading posts prior to giving your made up interpretations?

You just pasted some link about some method ploben must be using(as town).

So that if and when ploben gets lynched you get some town creds

.

You know he is town and there is only one way that is possible.

More votes on Alpaca please..

How can you misinterpret this? Shadow is accusing Alpaca of looking for towncred when ploben flips. Alpaca is defending ploben by "wanting to defuse the case." Therefore the only way he's getting towncred is if ploben flips scum. You don't get towncred for defending someone who flips scum.

And if that wasn't clear enough Shadow goes on to make it explicitly clear by saying "you know ploben is town" via perfect information.

[PantherPunt]

Who said this by the way?

For a start?
You.
But others as well. I'd have to check to see the others, but it was more than just you, I know that.

Went back and looked. I said:

Spoiler:

It's weird to be defensive about getting scum read from read lists when it's basically all the content you've given

I encourage reading me off of my readslists! I have no problem with this.

I take strong issue with people attributing mistakes in my lists as something other than just that!
It's like if I type, "Why would I do that as town?" when meaning to type "why would I do that as scum?" (this is something literally every player does and it is something they do as both alignments; if you say you haven't, either you're too new or you're a liar because I GUARANTEE you that it'll happen in your posting sooner or later, saying town instead of scum, or scum instead of town): it's something that was clearly an error, which once I noticed, I immediately fixed.

Some things are alignment-indicative.
For instance, if I post two readslists back to back, with explanations like, "Actually, I change my mind", "this is more accurate", or such? That's content.
"Whoops, that was a mistake, this is what I meant to say"...isn't. I have no incentive to lie about my reads. As town, if I tell you I made a mistake, I am obviously telling the truth. As scum, if I tell you I made a mistake, it is because the list I post second delivered the message I

intended

. In either case, my statement of making a mistake is still true.

Which is why, when I'm getting accused of this sort of thing across multiple games, it gets old fast. There's a

reason

I compared it to "Why hasn't Ranger posted yet?". When I say, here's not the first, I really do mean, here is not the first place that accusation has been made. So if I seem snappy about it, it's because I have very good reason to be grumpy about it.

Reading the content of my lists is what I encourage people to do.
But I encourage people to read the

content

of my lists, which errors are most assuredly

not

.

Now can we move on, or will I have to rant on this some more?

Apparently Ranger is god’s gift to town

Where

do

they get this information from?

I'm certainly not the one who preaches it.

whole bunch of words that amount to self-defense and general commentary

about mistakes made in mafia if you play long enough

You said...

For people saying I've done nothing but defend myself...

which is, at best, a woe-is-me dramatization where you're feeling attacked for one

objectively accurate

description of a post of yours, and at worst an intentional misrepresentation

[PantherPunt]

Yes scum post townie things, you should try it.

My point is the posts you called ploben scummy for aren't even his scummy posts. The one where you said "go girlfrand" isn't a towny post in the world you find the other posts scummy. If you believe it is please help me understand your thoughts.

Also, the comment about shadow in the first wall post, can you elaborate on that and clarify your meaning there too please?

You don't seem to know my play style, so I can understand why you'd think that, but I highly suggest you read me games and see why I wouldn't.

Also, if you're referring to 231,

I'm saying that Shadow appears to be scum reading Alpaca for reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking. Obviously there wasn't lurking because Alpaca was replaced.

I'm here. (Tada!)

(I'm ignoring the fact that you ignored my point about the ploben "go girlfrand" thing that makes no sense).

In no way, shape, or form was Shadow scum reading Alpaca for 'reasons of supposed inactivity/lurking.' You're making things up in my opinion. Show me where in this post you got that:

Just caught up and when I first read the Ploben thing I completely dismissed it as a joke because of the brackets and fun things inside them and was pretty surprised when people took it seriously. What he's doing/claiming to do not sure on that one yet, is a thing called Slayer's Gambit (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... 27s_Gambit) and is probably not a great way to go about finding scum but is a strategy that you can use.

I didn't like Alpaca's entry.
He tried to passively dismiss the case on you, it looks like he reads you as town but did not state it explicitly to avoid suspicion(I think).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alpaca

I would really like to lynch this guy

I want you to answer me about what I have bolded in red, please.