Newbie 1717: Newbies Through the Looking Glass (Game Over)

[Mizzytastic]

I don't like that Mizzytastic is justifying her vote based on waiting for someone else for her to sheep (81). I think town would start a wagon and wait to see who sheeps instead. Is that playstyle/NAI?

Welcome to my town reads. I knew that sounded bad, just that lying as town would be worse. Though I wasn't looking for someone to sheep. I was just looking for someone else to agree Meepo's RVS vote could have been taken seriously. They could totally disagree with my read, but if they agreed with that bit it would have been enough.

[Simoyd]

I take everything seriously. Even a joke has a motivation behind it. I didn't take his words seriously, but I think his motivation for the joke is up for debate. Mizzytastic, what were you more afraid of: the possibility that your opinion wouldn't be popular, or the possibility that you might be attacking town?

[Pants98]

Lycan, you seem to be relying a lot on meta. I dunno about IV but I know you've not seen my scum game because I've not seen my scum game. What makes you think this is town aggression and not just me aggression?

You seem to have a negative opinion of Lycan relying on Meta, why is that?

[Accountant]

I like Simoyd now.

Why isn't Mizzie doing more stuff with Meepo? It makes sense to talk to and pressure your scumreads.

[innocentvillager]

People please don`t voice your town reads so obviously just yet, because it will be easier to determine for scum who to kill during the night.

I promise it's important to talk about townreads regardless, as it helps in finding scum by POE.

My initial impressions are a lot of slight townreads. I didn't really get much from the first page or two, other than that Grace is confused as fuck and Mizzy asks a lot of questions and Accountant is playing the classic null IC. The only thing was that Accountant was a bit unnecessarily defensive on the first page, but that wasn't even too bad since it looked like later it was just reaction testing. Fine.

Rereading Lycanfire's entrance post, I've decided he gets some townpoints for this. Newbs who make the effort to meta definitely get some townpoints (I never did it as newbscum, since there was no incentive to and I didn't think that far ahead). I would never scumread myself from an objective perspective, but I can understand his line of reasoning from a meta perspective. Yes, I do tend to be more aggressive as town and am probably more defensive (I'll leave it up to you guys to make that determination), but I'm definitely not anti-town. Also, I haven't played this game in like two years (minus the game other game I'm currently in), so my playstyle might be a bit different.

I still read a scum lean on meepo. maybe I'm stoopid

This bleeds newbtown.

Isn't people already arguing a good thing? And how is what you said scumhunting?

Yeah it's always better to have more activity than none, but there's a lot of noise in this game that is making it annoying to read.

I feel weird and scummish sheeping people but I like a lot of the things Accountant is saying, especially in 78. I have to say, I don't get this:

Okay, Meepo is town. RC, stop playing games and sheep me thanks.

Why. I don't see it.

Focusing on the meta element of my post 46 is negligent at best and scummy at worst. My point was that discussion was being centralized on a group of 3 people already attacking each other over what were nonsensical posts. Hanging back and watching people dig themselves a hole is only town if there's reasons to see someone's reaction. I sure didn't want to see analysis #10 of jokepost because it won't find scum.

Lycan, you seem to be relying a lot on meta. I dunno about IV but I know you've not seen my scum game because I've not seen my scum game. What makes you think this is town aggression and not just me aggression?

I don't. It was closer to what I expected than IV.

Hey Lycan I feel like you're just sitting around and whaling on someone who can't fight back. Any thoughts on active players?

I was hoping to be pushed back by now. IV said he didn't have time to post much, left a low content post that I didn't like. I called it and he spoke about being burnt out and hasn't been helping us any since.

Town
Meepo

Lean Town
Accountant (IC)
Simoyd
RadiantCowbells (SE)

Null
Mizzytastic
Grace
Pants98 (SE)

Lean Scum

Scum
innocentvillager (SE)

Meepo screams town to me, whereas yourself and Simoyd have been contributing positively. I'm having trouble reading RC, but I'm reading a lot of 'noise' from Mizzy and Grace in general that my scumdar isn't feeling very well calibrated right now-I think she's more town than the others but if I didn't know that RC was a Titus alt I'd be guessing a Not_Mafia alt (say little, accuse lots). Mizzy went from "you're usually aggressive so what's the problem" post#51 to "[Lycanfire] you're relying a lot on meta" post#82 after your post#78. My original problem with the direction of the game withstanding I'm reconsidering my read. I don't hate or like her.

Grace is interesting. Nearly all of her posts contain a personal element to them. I don't think this is newbtown or newbscum in itself. It's noise and it's complicating my ability to read her until something more solid comes from her.

Pants hasn't posted. I can't get anything besides null from them.

I actually don't like Lycan's post here, even if I thought his first one fine. It's firstly noteworthy that he has done this "extensive meta research" on me, but doesn't say anything about my scum meta. If I meta someone, I want to make sure I look at both alignments and cross compare them, and I think any townie metaing would want to do that. Too many town games and not enough scum? I'll keep clicking until I see a scum game. Better yet, guess their alignment from a random game before looking to get reading practice. Second, I don't like the overreliance on the meta data, which put me not even just at leaning scum, but at full scum. Notice that everyone else on his list is at null or town; looks like he townread everyone since it's hard to find scummy things about people when you know they're town, and then realized that he needs a scumread, so he puts me down since he already had a "reason" anyway. That, for me, overrides the townpoints gained from making the effort to meta in a general sense.

VOTE: Lycan

More later, when I have time

[Accountant]

Why. I don't see it.

Posts feel very real and typical of a newbie townie.

[Lycanfire]

You thought my first post was fine, ignore the premise, tunnel heavily on the meta portion to the point of giving me towncred, and then when I dismiss meta as primary motive you suddenly want to make it about metagaming again.

I never claimed "extensive meta research" on you. I claimed 1 town game of yours to 1 town game of Mizzy's, while skimming through your ISOs of other games to save time. I didn't need to compare a scum game to your town game to call your town game out of character here(to which you somewhat agreed). You were behaving more strangely than Mizzy, and that's why you're the one I placed my vote on. The moment you stopped posting was the moment I thought lean scum was too tame, because while waiting others did not cease accusing each other. Scum aren't in a hurry to contribute here if accused as each new post they aren't involved in offers opportunities. So, what about town? It would be in a townie's interest to make a meaningful post ASAP if they were the one being accused.

[Accountant]

I thought #104 was pretty meaningful, Lyc. Is there any other reason why you think IV is suspicious?

[Mizzytastic]

I'm not going to be around today. I've been spending too much time on this site since I found it to the detriment of other stuff and I feel ill so taking a 24 hour break.

[RadiantCowbells]

Really, really like my Accountant vote.

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 1.3

How do you know I’m mad?
- You must be, or you wouldn’t have come here.

Accountant

(2): Grace, RadiantCowbells

Mizzytastic

(2): Meepo, Accountant

Meepo

(2): Simoyd, Mizzytastic

innocentvillager

(1): Lycanfire

RadiantCowbells

(1): Pants98

Lycanfire

(1): innocentvillager

Not Voting

:

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-06-22 07:25:57)

[Accountant]

Really, really like my Accountant vote.

I guess your record of being able to perfectly read my alignment has finally come to an end

[Simoyd]

VOTE: Accountant

I consistently don't like the direction of your reads. I think you can only hide behind reaction testing for so long... Still a long time left for today so things might change, but you've definitely made my top scum read.

[Accountant]

What don't you like about my reads, etc.?

[Accountant]

I've never done a single reaction test this entire game, and I don't know why people thought I did.

[Simoyd]

I've never done a single reaction test this entire game

Oof, I'm going to hold you to that.

Okay, lemme post a wall on your ISO. I'm at work right now sorry so I can't spend a bunch of time putting it together. I'll do it first thing when I get home around 5pm EST. Sorry :S.

And yes I meet my promises, unlike everyone else I've seen who says shit like this.....

[Accountant]

And yes I meet my promises, unlike everyone else I've seen who says shit like this.....

I call these people "Donald Trumps" because they promise walls but can't deliver

[Simoyd]

rofl! yes!

[Lycanfire]

I thought #104 was pretty meaningful, Lyc. Is there any other reason why you think IV is suspicious?

It was. My problem was that between my first post and my post placing him as scum, he didn't make a meaningful one, despite making a few in that time.

Beyond the points in #46/#106, his post #54 I don't find anything else suspicious.

[Simoyd]

Town
Meepo

People please don`t voice your town reads so obviously just yet, because it will be easier to determine for scum who to kill during the night.

This seems pretty town motivated from Meepo.

[Simoyd]

Accountant:

Post 9 looks like you might be bussing your partner, innocentvillager. You certainly don't think this is enough to wrap up the game. If not bussing, then is this a reaction test?

In post 12 through 26 you're tunneling really hard on Grace. I feel that post 13 and at the very latest post 16 clearly show her true colors, and continuing to tunnel seems to have yielded very little, if any value. I just get the impression that your motivation to tunnel was to keep up the bussing facade and not to find scum like town would.

How is post 76 not a reaction test? Why would town OMGUS (post 80)?

post 78 you flip around and write a pretty big section dedicated to not only defending innocentvillager, but trying to make people feel stupid for reading him badly. Why defend? Didn't he already basically say everything you said already, other than making other people feel stupid? And making people feel stupid like that isn't a reaction test how?

In the same post you also attack Mizzy, saying her post 30 is bad when 80% of it basically just looks like parroting of your own opinion earlier in the game, other than attacking your buddy innocentvillager. How is anyone expected to strike the heart of someone at this point? Why is jabbing and poking any different than what RC has done? Why no mention of that being bad for RC? So again, what is this then... reaction test? How do you differentiate between Mizzy appearing to look active and actually looking active at this point in the game?

For post 89 I think you're right and are trying to get RC to help you drive the town in the wrong direction. Since when does town ever ask someone to sheep them? AGAIN is this a reaction test? What is this? Why did you say this?

post 90: again defending innocentvillager. This seems to be a reoccuring theme...

post 98: for all the seriousness you've been portraying why say this? Maybe I'm missing something here. @Lycanfire: was post 99 serious?

post 103: Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town. Attacking mizzie again for no good reason... I think the meepo wagon has really bottomed out and there's not really anything to push. This is besides the fact that I was voting meepo and not pushing either, but you like me?

post 105: I would like to see a detailed explaination on why you think that post seems nowbie townie and meaningful... I think IV is your buddy. You immidiatly respond positivly and defend him again in 107 the moment he's under fire... What is that!

[Simoyd]

oh I forgot to put:

in b4 newb ergo wrong

[Lycanfire]

Post99 was serious. As Accountant was referring to my inability to read Titus(RC) he told me RC was not Titus.... Titus talks more. Which explained why RC has been keeping it short.

[Simoyd]

oh shit I missed that in 92 my bad :S

[Accountant]

You certainly don't think this is enough to wrap up the game. If not bussing, then is this a reaction test?

It certainly was enough to wrap up the game if Meepo had been serious. But he later said he was joking.

I just get the impression that your motivation to tunnel was to keep up the bussing facade and not to find scum like town would.

I tunneled on Grace because I wasn't sure of her alignment yet. 13 and 16 may have been enough for you to determine her true colors, but it wasn't enough for me. People respond under pressure - that response shows me their alignment. Afterwards I townread Grace since her respond was townie.

Why would town OMGUS (post 80)?

Because I knew that RC's initial vote on me was just him playing games as usual, so I voted him back to show my displeasure. In addition, this was something of a placeholder vote, and after I completed my analysis I ended up voting Mizzy.

Why defend?

Because people were attacking him unreasonably and I wanted to put a stop to that.

And making people feel stupid like that isn't a reaction test how?

Please explain how my post made people feel stupid.

In the same post you also attack Mizzy, saying her post 30 is bad when 80% of it basically just looks like parroting of your own opinion earlier in the game

Indeed - just because someone is sheeping me doesn't mean that their posts are magically good.

How is anyone expected to strike the heart of someone at this point?

I don't expect Mizzy to strike at the heart of anyone. If she doesn't have something real to scumhunt, she be honest and say that she can't find any openings to question rather than trying to look good by jabbing aimlessly.

Why is jabbing and poking any different than what RC has done?

RC's meta isn't to jab and poke, it's to make naked votes and one liners or 20 pages and then jump on someone and deathtunnel them. In addition, I'm wary of trying to sort RC early because I find him difficult to read.

How do you differentiate between Mizzy appearing to look active and actually looking active at this point in the game?

I assume you meant actually "being" active here. My response is that the difference is the intent and direction of her questions. I don't see the pointedness and the "driving" that would lead me to believe she has a concrete idea of how each question helps to sort player alignments.

Since when does town ever ask someone to sheep them?

What is wrong with town asking someone to sheep them? To "sheep" someone means to follow their lead and vote who they vote - if a town member is confident they've found a good player to vote, they should want the rest of the town to vote with them.

again defending innocentvillager. This seems to be a reoccuring theme...

Of course I'm defending him. He's literally awol and people are rushing to jump down his throat.

Liking me is the obvious scum choice because I'm terrible at this game and obvious newb town.

Liking you is the obvious

town

choice, too. If you're obvious newb town, that means that I, as a town member, should want to read you as town.

This is besides the fact that I was voting meepo and not pushing either, but you like me?

I think you were doing this in a sort of clueless town way, rather than Mizzy's deceptive manner.

I would like to see a detailed explaination on why you think that post seems nowbie townie and meaningful...

You misunderstand. IV, in his post, questioned why I townread Meepo. I said that Meepo as a whole seemed genuine.

I think IV is your buddy. You immidiatly respond positivly and defend him again in 107 the moment he's under fire... What is that!

Why do you think that me defending IV means that we both have to be scum together? That's a ridiculous line of thinking. All town would defend another player who they feel to be unfairly attacked, which IV was. My actual read on IV is nullish, so anyone who reads him otherwise is either seeing something I don't(unlikely, since there's nothing much to see from 1 post and some V/LA declarations) or outright wrong.

In Conclusion

I feel that your erroneous scum read on me is due to a number of misunderstandings about my play and horrible misconceptions about how town should react. Your logic and hasty pre-flip associatives are bad and do not hold in the face of closer examination. You also seem to fundamentally misunderstand the point of many of my posts, like declaring them to be reaction tests when they're anything but. In the light of this, there can be no further reason to suspect I am scum.