Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[Zyf]

Maybe Mh/Beeboy.
Actually this makes more sense since Rask is not sure about the big wagon on me.

Ok, so there definitely was NO rb in play.
Rask and Sick seem to really be playing together. Rask defends Sick, and sick in turn avoids rask by

changing their mind

to further make it appear that rask is good, thus in turn making sick appear better.
Next, sick ignores attempting to defend themselves (stating "I'll do it later") yet has time to instead fingerpoint in the same direction as rask with no evidence or logic.
Next, they both say they can't believe vandit's town, as if to put themselves in the clear. This scumteam makes a lot of sense:
I've been quite surprised that I haven't died yet for the entire game. However, it makes a lot of sense now, as on day 1 I strongly townread Rask, leaving me as a good supporter towards their cause. Next day, rask isn't really around, and I'm in accordance with sick the whole time. Also, during the day, sick rushes the lynch after rasm announces V/LA, even though rask says not to quickhammer (distancing).
Then, the NK on Ranger also makes lots of sense-ranger was one of the few who wasn't fully comfortable with rask being town on day 1
Fox NK also makes sense-fox was the only oen to say to watch out for rask

With all this in place, when we're all ready to vote, I wAnt rask to vote first.

[Zyf]

vandit/sad >>>> vandit/ranger or dvds > vandit/??? but the first is overwhelmingly likely.

Noticing that rask completely ignores sick, who I was still uncomfortabel with at the time.
Would also like to mention that rask appears to be getting impatient. Pressure from continued lying/concealment? Or want to cause a quickhammer?

[Zyf]

Though I doubt I'll change my mind on this lynch I want to wait until at least monday-tuesday to end today.

I'm away sat/sun but I really want to see f-oh-x's (sat?) catchup and comment there before the day ends.

Awfully interested in fox specifically...and fox died soon after...odd.

[Zyf]

@Sick i do not know why didnt you even changed your vote on sad (before night 1) and just went on going (since start of day 1)without any debates or knowning anything and till the end.

I had no argument as to why he was town and he was obviously the scummiest one to me.

I actually love this honesty/admittance from sickofit here.

Protecting sick while calling it gut to prevent suspicion.
Reminder that sick does a similar protection not too much later.

[Zyf]

VOTE: sick

[Zyf]

UNVOTE: sick

[Sickofit1138]

Actually my new scumteam is MH and ... Zyf.

I will explain in several posts.
and also attempt to defend myself.

[Sickofit1138]

although... FOx was cop and i believe he investigated one of you....

i want to die right now

[Sickofit1138]

Ok. first of all.

Zyf had Rask and i as town reads the whole game exept for this night in which he suddenly has gone into a flurry of posting on why Rask and i are scum. Weird.

along with the last point, Zyf at end of day 2 acted like he knew that vandit would flip town and so he was setting himself up to tunnel at me for D3

I've been quite surprised that I haven't died yet for the entire game

hmm i am too, i wonder why.

[Zyf]

Alright, here's why your justifications are weak.
1) i have not at any point truly taken you out of my suspicions. If you could direct me to an actual post where that thought was presented (supporting you vs vandit doesn't count, that was more of a support towards being a reasonable person/having courtesy), then I can show you why this statement is incorrect.
I haven't done it for beeboy, as just as rask stated, there isn't much to make a leap off of.
For rask, I realized that I was trusting them too much b/c of general day 1 friendliness, and fox as conftown warned to be wary of rask's apparent townie nature.
As for mh, they've been acting townie the whole time. The well presented new thoughts they brought to the table, the unprompted concern towards quickvoting, the possible crumb and townread from fox...mh is currently the one person I trust. Their reads also line up with mine, which is another good sign.
2) I didn't KNOW vandit was going to flip town, I just wanted to be precautious in case for some reason they did; if i died yesterDay night, I as conftow would have had nothing to contribute. Where is this setup you speak of? The pseudowill? Once again, sick, you've been off the whole game.
3) You appear especially scummy as you are DIRECTLY contradicting the final thoughts of the COP. You mention this but brush it off and continue regardless, and your reasoning is weak.
4) As a VT, your greatest power is to force someone into a defense. Especially in lylo, what better way to get people to talk than to push them. Your inconsistency and evidence-less claims are simply digging you a deeper scum hole in my view as you claim that Fox's 2 strongest townreads are the scumteam. If we reversed roles and I was still VT, I would townread you right now for thorough apparent pro-town analysis. In case no one noticed, when fox came in and scumread me, I defended myself and

townread

fox for being thorough in the presentation and logic in their thoughts. Like rask said earlier-we need explanations right now, not empty accusations.

[Raskolnikov]

Rask and Sick seem to really be playing together. Rask defends Sick, and sick in turn avoids rask by

changing their mind

to further make it appear that rask is good, thus in turn making sick appear better.
Next, sick ignores attempting to defend themselves (stating "I'll do it later") yet has time to instead fingerpoint in the same direction as rask with no evidence or logic.
Next, they both say they can't believe vandit's town, as if to put themselves in the clear. This scumteam makes a lot of sense:

This actually makes sense for sick/beeboy too though. Of all the people here, mhsmith and you had sickofit as primary scumreads; beeboy secondary with me and me as sick generally secondary to beeboy but considering bee/mhs.
When sick comes in after seeing all of the reads out the only person he even could have tried to buddy was me assuming he's with beeboy, and that also reinforces what beeboy's pushing and has sick making me look scummy through association as a result of him doing it. Again I'll say it but secondary/partners are essentially worthless if the other person's town and you mislynch there, and the corollary of this is sick scum doesn't care if he's caught if just one of you/mhsmith end up voting me as "partner" and scum hammer; if not then his scumpartner busses sick and then town mislynch the false partner next day and they win anyways. You have to be extremely careful with partner associations here for this.

But even think of the reverse of that: if sick is town then I'm right about mhsmith/beeboy scum and sick would be right there too; and sick comes in seeing mhsmith beeboy you eager to scumread him whereas I'm trying to look at all options he's knows from a mathematical standpoint 1-2 of those are scum, especially with how he's seen beeboys this game. I don't know if sick is scum and after vandit flip I don't want to jump to conclusions anymore.

Also, during the day, sick rushes the lynch after rasm announces V/LA, even though rask says not to quickhammer (distancing).

I've been V/LA every weekend for a few months now and am against quickhammers and wasting day-time in every game I play. I wanted to see f-oh-x post his promised saturday catchup for associatives especially with vandit since him more or less ignoring it felt awful. Sick rushing the lynch through was bad (esp after saying we should take lots of time) but somewhat understandable since vandit WAS getting a bit abusive then.

Then, the NK on Ranger also makes lots of sense-ranger was one of the few who wasn't fully comfortable with rask being town on day 1
Fox NK also makes sense-fox was the only oen to say to watch out for rask

With all this in place, when we're all ready to vote, I wAnt rask to vote first.

NK on ranger makes perfect sense from beeboy when he brought it up later in a "her reads must have been right" manner, and beeboy knows ranger as a person would re-evaluate her townreads after having sad flip and seeing someone else NK'd. Fox NK I'm almost convinced is a PR based one considering he was heavily scumread and would otherwise be a potential mislynch.

You're the only one I feel sure about here and probably the f-oh-x inno on top of it. I want to hear your thoughts on what I said about beeboy/sick vs mhs/beeboy at some point.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 3.1

No Vote (5):

beeboy, mhsmith0, Raskolnikov, Sickofit1138, Zyf

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

Deadline is Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 4:00 PM CST, which is in (expired on 2016-06-28 16:00:00).

[Raskolnikov]

It's possible f-oh-x investigated ranger after the sad mislynch actually, though the 180 on zyf still feels a lot more likely.

[Zyf]

Look up one post.
We need beeboy to talk more (I'm confused as why they've been playing so quietly now, I thought they were PR).
Mh has been as a general whole been playing as very townie, and their reaction towards today is now different.
In response to beeboy being scum making sense because they mentioned ranger died because her reads were correct...no, that makes absolutely no sense. Beeboy was ranger's #1 townread the whole day, so there was no reason to kill them. If mh is beeboy's partner, then that means that N1, beeboy made the decision to kill ranger on their own (dvds was afk af), which is illogical in and of itself. The only person who suspected beeboy that much was me, and thus, with a Beeboy/MH scumteam that would indicate that they would have killed me in their best interest. Also, on a more personal (and slightly irrelevant) level, beeboy specifically was trying to get in ranger's game in newbie queue (for a while, too), so why would beeboy kill both their friend and their strongest supporter? It doesn't fit.
I can personally believe that beeboy/sick is the scumteam, but both you and sad have prepared accusations against mh without any real analysis to back it up. The only thought is that mh hasn't posted much (which should change by the end of today), but the reality is that most of their opinions bring a new possibility to the table, similar to what you're doing now (although under less pressure).
So yes, I can see beeboy/sick being plausible, but I trust mh until someone can give me a good chunk of evidence that they're scum, with a good person for them to be paired with.
I don't think I'm going to tunnel you at this point, as I've gotten what I've needed from you and your thoughts seem candid.

PEdit-Oh, that's why you read me as town? Because they did a 180 on me?
I was under the impression that I had presented strong enough logic to clear myself in their eyes, and the later pages made it clear I'm a VT.
And here I thought I did a good job...

However, I don't like how you don't really find sick scummy in any way. Yes, it makes sense to put all ideas on the table, and I appreciate that, but why do you think it makes sense for sick to be scumreading the town cop's townreads? Since in my view, sick is 99.9% scum, I don't like that sick's strongest sign of buddying is you.

I'll try going through beeboy's iso once more to see what I can find, but there isn't much to go from.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm not townreading him either, his new jump now feels very panicky and I have no idea why he dropped beeboy there.

My point on mhsmith is that in spite of all the talk about setup and night actions and partnerships and all the minor things I don't really have a full perspective or case of his to really look at; it looks like he's different from beeboy sick here on the surface but when I try to follow his scumhunting and his reads I still don't have anywhere to start. The most fleshed out read so far has been his vandit case which is still more than beeboy said about it but here he's working on VCA/PoE and it's a lot harder to judge that as genuine vs how most people scumhunt in a stream-of-consciousness manner. Between all of sick beeboy mhsmith there's so little in depth description of their thought process it's annoying and if they posted like you did this game I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have this problem sorting them now.

[Zyf]

ok, yeah rask, nuthing from beeboy.
bee, get to work pls

[Zyf]

rask, it seems mh is posting using statistical data and other info other than their own observations
we'll have to wait until tonight...I personally appreciate the "town consensus" presentation, but don't like that mh hasn't really put their own thoughts down yet.
IRL stuff still takes precedence though. Patieeeenceeeee

is a virtue i don't have

[Raskolnikov]

Yeah, that's my point.
It's not that it's even that scummy but more like a defensive thing like lurking that makes it harder to judge the person at all. His IIoA and beeboy playing on gut with almost no content the whole game is them playing in a sense "without showing their hand", and is a style a lot easier for them to fake town than a full open perspective and tons of observations in detail. That was my thought on beeboy PR too (457) and yeah this as vt is kind of baffling. Still, I could be writing off sick/mhsmith a bit too soon but I really don't see sick with an afk slot choosing that n1 NK over for ex. you.

This time of day is pretty dead atm

[Zyf]

Definitely agree with the last sentence on the one man scumteam kill pick being off
Still tho, why would beeboy choose to kill ranger? Ranger wasn't even pushing sick either.
Even still, sick should be scum, right? I mean, we both agree that that last scumread is weird, and sick wasn't particularly great on day 1 in my eyes. Plus, sick was rushing to kill vandit closer to the end there.
If sick is scum, who is his partner, though? The only buddy appears to be you.

VOTE: sick

[Zyf]

UNVOTE: sick

[Zyf]

Urgh.
I reaaaallly want to just say "screw this, i'll take responsibilty for town loss, but I am 99.99999999% sure I'm right.

[Raskolnikov]

Are you ruling out sick/beeboy entirely from the ranger kill?
In retrospect it could have even been a PR hunt kill, I remember ranger was kind of reserved which was why I was paranoid of her.

[Zyf]

Rask, I'm not ruling it out entirely. However, I'm ruling out the possibility that sick is not scum, and am therefore going to make the next decisions tomorrow (should I still be alive) at that point.
However, I think the ranger NK is kinda weird unless, as you suggest, they were PR hunting. Idk, I don't think ranger had a very PR vibe.
Wait!

[beeboy]

I am going to be really honest i don't know what I am supposed to say here.
I think mhsmith is really obviously town along with Zyf.

Zyf is closing way too many doors right now to be scum in my books and Mhsmith's analysis is just really towny.

[beeboy]

I was already scum reading Rask as I didn't like his day 1 read on Ranger and nothing he has really done has redeemed himself from that.

The way Sick was posturing around the Vandit wagon also make him scum in my books because he was pretty apathetic about it (although so was I...)

I am sorry I haven't been bringing an A game but this game is really clear from my POV