Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[Zyf]

If mafia has 2x goons there is a chance there is a doctor.
If mafia has 1x RB there is a chance there is a doctor.

I believe this info is very public.

Corrected for you: If Mafia has 1x RB there is 100% chance there is a protection role. And why would you mention Ranger being targetted by a protection action out of a blue?

Because that is always a risk the scum team needs to consider regardless of whether or not they have a roleblocker.

Beeboy does clearly state that the /only/ reason to kill ranger if their reads were wrong (which they were) would be A) fear kill or B) due to an RB suggesting prot role
Furthermore, this appears to be a crumb to their partner should beeboy be scum.

Now then, here's the predicament with the NK:
Mh could not be on the scumteam, as both rask and beeboy were townreads for ranger
Rask, if they had been scum, would not have killed ranger as the sad kill would make ranger look super scummy; rask had their vote up the day before and therefore would have the easiest time pushing ranger
Sick was not placed scummily low on ranger's final readlist, so ranger wasn't really a threat to any of the possible scum.
Which means that the ranger kill was, in fact, a fear kill/PR hunt kill, meaning beeboy was right. So does that make beeboy scum or incisive town?

Then there's the fox kill-it lines up perfectly if the team is beeboy+sick. I personally believe this to be the reason behind the kill, because beeboy wasn't well and thus sick could have made that kill based on the threat of a fox push. Sick would be even further inspired to make this choice since fox gad a stronger scumread on sick. If, in fact, beeboy was still active, they could have pointed out the chance that fox was cop and therefore the kill needed to be done to save sick. I personally do not believe an SE that was active would have so blatantly killed VT!Fox, as they could probably argue their way out of it. Sick, on the other hand, could be bussed, saving the other scum.
Idk, the fox nightkill almost seems to be a decision based on possible pushes and not a PR read. I don't know, but I do know that sick is probably scum as they killed fox, and, thinking they were safe, were surprised when I "turned" (I really didn't) on them. At this point, I'm not sure whether rask stopping me was a good or bad thing.

PEdit: Let me post this first beeboy

[Zyf]

So. From what I'm getting, sick is the safest lynch.
Rask and beeboy are at war with each other, so I'm not going to support either side.
Regardless, their interactions all game do not appear like scum partners. Since I think mh is town, that leaves sick as a guaranteed scum lynch. I do want this discussion/1v1 to continue, but I want this to end in a sick lynch.

and i swear to god if someone gets someone else other than sick quickhammered

[Zyf]

1. It isn't an omgus because rask wasn't voting me.
2. I don't like how Rask made his vote lose any form of pressure by saying it was a poke rather then a real read. Not only is that playing it way too safe for me to think it is town it also fails to actually apply any pressure with your vote.

Wait, beeboy, this thing? That's it?

*sigh*
Ok rask, be honest here-
Did your poke develop into a read or was this a read that you softened from the start?

[Sickofit1138]

WiFoM.

OR

it could be that if task was cop and he investigated me I would be conf town.

I'm honestly not goin to be able to answer these fuckin arguments, only thing I can say is that I'm town.

Get over it.

[Sickofit1138]

Also... We know that one scum was on my wagon. And I know that both of them are. Wether it be a bus (it's not) or they are coming at me hard... One is on it obviously.

I'm almos gonna call it now a beeboy/Zyf or Mh/Zyf scuteam. If rask was scum he would just hop on my wagon with the rest of you clowns.

[mhsmith0]

ok i'm back. i have a couple other games to check in on first, and then I'll get back to this one.

[Sickofit1138]

The way Sick was posturing around the Vandit wagon also make him scum in my books because he was pretty apathetic about it (although so was I...)

then scum read yourself... And Zyf. We were all apathetic about it... Youre and Zyfs usin that as a basis to scum read me yet ignoring yourself and the other doing the same is what really nails this in for me.

[Sickofit1138]

Urgh.
I reaaaallly want to just say "screw this, i'll take responsibilty for town loss, but I am 99.99999999% sure I'm right.

Heck yes you'll take responsibility for it, Wolfy.

[Sickofit1138]

Urgh.
I reaaaallly want to just say "screw this, i'll take responsibilty for town loss, but I am 99.99999999% sure I'm right.

Rask, I'm not ruling it out entirely. However, I'm ruling out the possibility that sick is not scum, and am therefore going to make the next decisions tomorrow (should I still be alive) at that point.
However, I think the ranger NK is kinda weird unless, as you suggest, they were PR hunting. Idk, I don't think ranger had a very PR vibe.
Wait!

You're not sure I'm scum, yet you are 99.9999999% sure?

Seems Legit.

[Sickofit1138]

So. From what I'm getting, sick is the safest lynch.
Rask and beeboy are at war with each other, so I'm not going to support either side.
Regardless, their interactions all game do not appear like scum partners. Since I think mh is town, that leaves sick as a guaranteed scum lynch. I do want this discussion/1v1 to continue, but I want this to end in a sick lynch.

and i swear to god if someone gets someone else other than sick quickhammered

... But y'know... I'm not ruling out the possibility that he isn't scum...

[Sickofit1138]

There is no reason that Zyf would live this Lon if he was town guys. Please for the love of this town trust me on this.

[Sickofit1138]

Zyf if I was sum I would know that candor would flip town... And you were the one who said that you would take a look at me it e flipped town. I would have killed ou if I was scum.

You completely ignored the possibility of you getting night killed in your analysis. ????

[mhsmith0]

Urgh.
I reaaaallly want to just say "screw this, i'll take responsibilty for town loss, but I am 99.99999999% sure I'm right.

Rask, I'm not ruling it out entirely. However, I'm ruling out the possibility that sick is not scum, and am therefore going to make the next decisions tomorrow (should I still be alive) at that point.
However, I think the ranger NK is kinda weird unless, as you suggest, they were PR hunting. Idk, I don't think ranger had a very PR vibe.
Wait!

You're not sure I'm scum, yet you are 99.9999999% sure?

Seems Legit.

zyf said he's not ruling out you and beeboy together, but that he's super sure about you. What contradiction are you seeing here?

There is no reason that Zyf would live this Lon if he was town guys. Please for the love of this town trust me on this.

Why? Presuming he's town, he'd certainly have been on the list of people for the wolves to consider, but why would he necessarily have gotten killed? IC's seem like common NK's (N1), and N2 it was the cop (or the wolves got lucky and were killing for a different reason). Why is zyf surviving such a ridiculous possibility to you?

Zyf if I was sum I would know that candor would flip town... And you were the one who said that you would take a look at me it e flipped town. I would have killed ou if I was scum.

You completely ignored the possibility of you getting night killed in your analysis. ????

Do you mean in 500? If that's the one, it's specifically looking at the kills that were made, as opposed to the ones that weren't. What seems off about this?

PS I really don't like the whole "I'd have totally done this other thing if I was mafia" bit.

[Zyf]

Thank you, mh, you nailed what I would say right on the head.
Sick, nothing you say can convince me you're town, unless you can convince me that beeboy and rask are a scumteam.

You act as if I must be scum because I haven't died. On day 1, you had no reason to kill me as I relented later on (plus you had to keep your partner in mind).
Then, on night 2, why would you kill me over your likely cop kill? Furthermore, fox agreed with me completely, but also brought rask and especially beeboy into the picture, meaning that they were probably right on at least one of them.

Your current accusations can be summarized as short, desperate, spurt of the moment thoughts attempting to put together a net of evidence that puts me as scum. It's especially weird that you focus on me and completely ignore my supposed partners, especially considering the fact that I'm the one pushing you.

Best of all, you wildy wave your finger towards me and completely ignore the defense you promised less than 12 hours ago:

Actually my new scumteam is MH and ... Zyf.

I will explain in several posts.
and also attempt to defend myself.

Friendly reminder, that's against...

Spoiler: All of this

Please don't mock me.

agreed.

@FOX

havent you noticed that sarcasm isnt usually a townie thing to do?

This is making me want to agree with beeboy's reasoning
The overlap between the two is sick but that could totally be a bait...
ACK my brain

PEdit: Beeboy if we're going to do this I want to see you vote first.
However we do need to wait for sick, and especially rask.
Rask, do you work most on weekends or something? Just wondering why "vla most weekends"

yes. if i get NKed... i told you so. i recomend a long look at vandit if sad flips town.

I don't like this...
Although I believe vandit was the correct lynch the next day (someone remind me to ask vandit why the HELL they hammered sad), the "i told you so" has this sort of...confident air that I don't like.
Furthermore, even though yeah IMO vandit was being pretty dang rude, i'd like to mention sick was a fervent supporter in pushing vandit over the edge.
Also, considering I have apparently (and gladly) been newb obvtown, I'm baffled by my severe lack of death. Since scum seem to not have had a rb they had no reason to choose the "less preferable lynch" on night one, leading to fear factor logic. How they found fox as cop by day 2 seems to come from a more experienced player (need backup on this logic), and since my only strong townread day 1 was rask, plus the fact the fox warned to keep an eye out for rask...
Output=Sick+Rask goon X goon scumteam

PEdit-IDK XD I just went since apparently you people go to bed at 1-2am my time
Also yeah I know, I know...no quickvote
+VT points to you

Honestly Fox and Vandit feels like the only viable scum team to me.
Xvandit is 98% scum for me and that makes fox that as well and here's why:

Vandit/beeboy I don't think Vandit would go for an early bus it's not natutral as a newbie.
Vandit/Zyf not scum/scum interractions and Zyf is town lean anyways.
Vandit/DVD? Too inactive I think to be scum.
Vandit/fox a thousand yesses there play is the same and they are moving together which furthermore says scum team for me.

A lot of things off on this post
1-presenting me as possible scum with vandit, stating me as townlean, yet placing me as their first town read less than 2 hours prior.
2-Echoing my argument towards a fox-vandit scumteam using no solid evidence and only generalized thoughts on an opinion I already made pretty clear (as opposed to just I agree with Zyf, this seems most plausible)
3-Mentions beeboy then immediately considers it foolish; note how it's placed first as though the most confident one, to draw attention. Could be protecting beeboy.
4-The DVDs argument contradicts Vandit's inactivity logic entirely. Like, the #1 vandit shouldbe pushing based on prior behavior would have dvds.

but wait there's more

@Zyf

I'm good with either. They are pretty equally scummy.
Vandit probably easiest lynch.

I DO NOT want to rush this vote!
I want to take the FULL ALLOTTED TIME.

I would maybe wait, If I was cop , till you've found a scum. If I just found an inno I would keep it for now.
The only other reason I would claim was if I was put at L-1, and that goes for any PR

Sick I don't think you ever actually voted vandit so they're technically at L-3

It's L-2. It takes 4 to lynch.

On another note I'm willing to speed lynch this. I am almost certain he is maf and I really do not want to play with this person.

I can agree with fOX here actually. Since Vandits toxic attitude is mostly absent right now I have no problem taking our full allotted time

Contradictions, anyone?

@Zyf if you will notice because i noticed that if you read this whole thread (since start) when people actually do random voting and stuff for fun.. sick was the only guy who voted for sad and till the end when we all were saying he is innocent etc (in the middle, not towards the end) still he didnt unvote him. And again didnt unvote sad till he was lynched. I voted for him for a reason,but he.. just no reason.

I never felt moved to take it off. At least I didn't change my vote six times and *ahem* quick hammer somebody.

Looking back, this is one helluva weak argument for not bekng scum

Hmm... Why are you unvoting?
I'm not seeing any reason too.

The only logical reason Ivan think of is if you we're scum and you knew you were lynching a townie ad didn't want to be on the examin-wagin.

What's your explanation?

Vandit is still so ignorant that he is still saying "if I get lynched"

Next lynch is FOX

>next lynch is fox
>Vandit isn't flipping town
>vandit flips town
>fox is the NK
>fox flips as cop

Hm. My, what confidence and accuracy you have, sick.
What made you so confident that Vandit wouldn't flip town after they got majority voted, sick?

That's a lot of stuff to ignore.

Finally, your "If I were scum I would have done this" holds no water. I've even elucidated it by explaining why fox was a better kill.

[Sickofit1138]

Ok then. Fuckin lynch me Wolfy.

The last straw was when you called yourself obvtown. Thad absolutely did it for me.

[Zyf]

Instead of helping the town by presenting evidence in some sort of consolidated form, or presenting some sort of defense, you instead choose to threaten/dare me and turn ruder than vandit.
Followed by strongly emotionally biased evidence. You're not even saying "UGH if you lynch me town loses," you're saying "You're scum, I dare you to lynch me."

Since I know I'm VT, I've given you plenty time to put up some sort of evidence, and I appear to have some level of accordance with everyone else...
Plus the fact that an

actual

VT wouldn't act this way if they were working in the interest of the town
Plus the fact you're being rather rude
Sure. I'll take you up on that.

VOTE: sickofit1138

[Zyf]

oh wait no I want to see mh's thoughts first
UNVOTE: sick

[mhsmith0]

Working on my thoughts. Re-reading the thread, trying to narrow down potential team possibilities. I feel reasonably confident that beeboy/rask isn't w/w (wolf/wolf). Trying to sort beeboy vs rask mainly at this point I think.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm 80% sick is scum but lynching there when I'm being setup as a partner to him is really uncomfortable. Assuming sick scum smith still has me as sick partner and scum could then kill zyf and have a cakewalk time in 3p. And at the back of my mind even though sicks flailing and not making any sense I feel some parallels with how the sad and vandit lynches went down that makes me hesitant.

OTOH I know there's 2 scum in the 3 of them and sick/mhs doesn't make any sense so beeboys essentially confirmed scum. It adds up with how utterly disappointing he was here for his standard, the PR fishing and the NKs all make sense. The best thing is beeboy lynch would pretty much clear MY name and scum would have to choose between me and zyf to nk so we'd at least a confirmed town in 3p, and this works for the small chance it really is beeboy/mhsmith. Either they'd kill zyf and I'd drag out lylo and play it super cautiously or more likely they'd kill me at that point, but zyf alive would then trust what I said about mhsmith and probably have a bit more of an open mind.

[Zyf]

Ahh...and therein lies the problem, rask.
At this point it's a pretty confirmed 1v1 with you vs beeboy as sick's partner.
Although the vandit and sick responses are similar, sick's reaction is a stark contrast from the rest of their gameplay
I can tell you that if I live and it's you VS beeboy I'm not going to immediately assume it's you.
However, I really don't like how you are trying to shift town away from a nore consensus lynch and possibly get us to fall into a quickhammer trap. It's almost like you're trying to defend sick as scumpartner...
At this point, I'm going to just say that as soon as I get what I need from Mh, I'm voting sick.
No one is convincing me I should do otherwise in my interest towards a town win.

[Sickofit1138]

Zyf you sound like those evil people who try to sound good in teen fics.

Zyf if you are ACTUALLY town and want to win... You are making a bad decision.

If you are wolf... Keep doing what you are doing. I have nothing else to say at this point.
Exept this: I am town. You guys are on the wrong wagon.


Guys IK I'm kinda annoying right now but technically since its lylo it playing against my wincon for me to shut up... Even if you believe I'm the wolfy.

[Sickofit1138]

VOTE: Beeboy

[Raskolnikov]

Zyf you're literally dying tonight though so that's almost no consolation.

From my pov sick isn't even guaranteed and assuming we haven't screwed up is still a 3p that feels like an uphill battle.
In a sense I'm damned for expressing my doubt because if it's ends up true we just lose and if it's wrong I look the worse for it next day.

[Raskolnikov]

I'm sorry zyf but I'm taking the beeboy 1v1 here.

VOTE: beeboy

[mhsmith0]

not sniping, confirmed town