Newbie 1714 (Game Over)

[Raskolnikov]

It has to be sick after all then

Wow I was such an idiot for not listening to zyf here

[mhsmith0]

Also, I have to say this was my best wolfing effort ever BY FAR. Usually I'm much worse than this. And while there were some down spots, I really, truly did have fun.

[Zyf]

Damn mh good shit

I'm guessing it was sick.

I swear this was the shortest mafia game ever

I fuckin told you rask

[Zyf]

Sick, why did you kill ranger?

[Raskolnikov]

Ughhhhhh I was right on mhsmith and he was right on sick but none of us in this game were completely right.

If only we could have somehow put our powers together and seen it was mhsmith/sick the whole time

[mhsmith0]

My personal (short) review (I started working on this earlier when the result seemed likely):

So this wasn't the most successful of towns. However, my hope is that everyone involved can take something useful away from this as a learning experience, since the main goal of a newbie game is to improve as opposed to necessarily to win (if it makes you feel better, I lost my first newbie game here, but in the process I gained a LOT of experience and I think it made me a much better player).

I have some thoughts on what went well and what went poorly, but I think I'll defer to our IC (Ranger) and/or mod (Zaicon) and/or either of the SE's who were here throughout, and weigh in after people have had time to think about things a bit.

I really did enjoy playing with you all, and I hope you had fun as well. I look forward to the next time we meet up in a game, whether as allies or enemies.

PS I've also been working on an IC type post (I'll likely IC at some point in the near future) and plan to post that here for people to look at. Some of the resources there I've found to be extremely helpful, and I'd be happy to talk through some of the stuff in there.

PPS as thewysecat said... God I hate playing as mafia. Also, I really, truly am sorry about not trying to step in during a couple of spots, but I have to play to win con, and sometimes that means letting things fester a bit.

[Raskolnikov]

I guess it was just the ultra classic "better kill the IC" after all
I can't believe I seriously ruled out the scumteam off of that 1 nk and then criticised you for doing the same for beeboy

[Zyf]

Yeah i had fun until about 3 hours ago
Frikin hell i'm salty as s*** rn

Fuck
I'm tired it's midnight

[Sickofit1138]

It's Mh/Zyf.
I was right this whole time.

[mhsmith0]

btw, this is a TOTAL guess, but I think that FOX actually peeked vandit, and it was his awkwardness around the D2 vandit interactions that first made me suspicious he was our investigative (though I really did think that JK/tracker was likelier).

PS I really would suggest that all players guess. It's good for your development to take the info (that I'm a wolf and beeboy isn't) and figure out, given that, who in your mind is likeliest to be my partner.

[Raskolnikov]

In some twisted way I'm actually glad this ended before my weekend v/la though.

[mhsmith0]

@ninjad: ok, everyone but beeboy guessed. I'm curious what beeboy will guess if/when he pops in here before the mod closes thread.

PS As a personal note to my D3 play, once FOX was gone, there was no longer any real incentive structure in place to force me to be insincere in my reads and processes (no longer could an investigative role swing the game through night actions and potentially more or less randomly implicate a wolf); rather, my incentive was to "look town" as much as reasonably possible, to the point where ALL I was trying to do was make legitimate-looking reads, whether they targeted a town player or my buddy. The win was the goal, the sweep was simply a nice secondary possibility. "Look town" is WAY easier when there's no longer any massive cost to bussing, and you can simply look for the best cases to make.

[Raskolnikov]

I really did enjoy playing with you all, and I hope you had fun as well. I look forward to the next time we meet up in a game, whether as allies or enemies.

Agreed 100%

Also I apologize for my play here.

[Sickofit1138]

I'm not scum I swear. I'm not the type who trolls in twilight.

[Raskolnikov]

Okay I was trolling I'm scum with mhsmith.

[Zyf]

Let me just say a few things.
1) I'm still satisfied with the vandit lynch. That hammer was cancer.
2) Fox read threw me tf off, jfc
3) Rask, I'd love to play another match with you, was fun.
4) Fucking well played mh, i'm not even mad at this point
5) Who would you have killed if we lynched sick?
6) Imo we got pretty fucked because fox never truly crumbed
7) i was right on toDay lynch, screw you guys EISODHEHS
seriously though, mh, you fukin deserve that. Holy s***

Wow fuck you rask
Internet troll strikes again

[Raskolnikov]

Mhsmith is a god at looking town and even my casting doubt on him and attempting to get some friction there didn't go anywhere. Mad respect.

[mhsmith0]

It is fundamentally incumbent upon town to push players hard and do their best to sort them ON DAY ONE (or day two at the latest). Before possible mislynches, before tvt fights clog up the thread, etc. Force the wolves to show their insincerity early, because the later you let things drag on, the easier it is for them to blend in and manipulate others into taking the heat for mislynches.

As another note, I INTENTIONALLY made sure that I was on the D2 vandit lynch. I read vandit as a wolf before I subbed in (I thought I was probably his buddy but wasn't sure, there were a few possibilities), so it was really easy to roll with that read since it already existed as a sincere read of the board. It was a righteous-feeling mislynch, and I 100% wanted to make sure I was on that wagon. I had no problem justifying my presence there, and indeed I was super uncomfortable about the possibility I might have to jusitfy not being on it (also, I've read wagons before as righteous vs skeezy, and been correct, most notably at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7909237 (in fact, the D1 clumsy lynch there was ALL TOWN).

[Zyf]

Wow. Damn.
I got absolutely screwed from all angles.

Rask why did you kill ranger then

Still tho i'm fine with vandit kill

[mhsmith0]

Mhsmith is a god at looking town and even my casting doubt on him and attempting to get some friction there didn't go anywhere. Mad respect.

I'm really, truly, horribly not. This was my best wolfing effort by a wide country mile. I usually get quick lynched as wolf, whether in turbos (I play 15 minute turbos on MU a lot) or in regular games. Feel free to skim my meta on my wiki. I've had some laughers. This was HOPEFULLY a really nice sign of improvement.

PS It was super fun wolfing with you Rask. Would do it again (but would much rather town with you instead)

[Sickofit1138]

Even though I was wrong I'm still gonna say I told you so.

[mhsmith0]

FYI, some notes from wolf chat informing my FOX NK:

149 and others - consistent suspicion of sick by zyf. If zyf was cop he'd have gone after sick. Not the cop. MAYBE a jk or tracker.
174 - if we kill fox this could maybe be zyf evidence
181 - maybe evidence towards rask-zyf if needed? Otoh zyf is kinda spammy in a hard to to fake way, I don't want to need to wolf read him
208 - zyf REALLY wanted sick lynched. With a jk or cop flip I would say sick the likeliest target
234 - don't see zyf as a cop slow rolling an innocent on sick
238 let's hope Rangers faith in the wolf team is well founded
239 sick wolf reads fox and vandit, hard to see him as a cop - no overnight changes to his reads
247 sick sort of softs cop, but it's hard to say who he'd have checked
249 vandit on zyf. Don't really want to rely on dead reads but MAYBE can mine it
250 interesting swing by zyf there on sick. Slow rolling cop???
277 weird post by FOX. That vote was zyf not rask. Cop w guilty????????????
282 that's not a pr type post from sick
292 could be bitching about being a doctor and missing a target
293 fox jumping on a non vandit wagon is kinda what a TMI might look like if he cop checked vandit n1. Also if fox is cop then it TOTALLY looks like a beeboy guilty check and lock win
298 beeboy would totally have cop checked rask. Maybe a tracker check or jk target though?
302 beeboy talks a lot about protective actions. Super plausible Doctor. Maybe a jk. Either one would increase odds of an rb.
317 I still think that was bogus by sick
323 foxs sarcastic tone there was towny, even if against the "wrong" target
329 sarcasm IS a thing that townies tend to do, btw
330 objectively Wolfy by zyf to PR speculate on beeboy there. Also signs of a zyf PR perhaps?
342 more pr spec by zyf here. I don't necessarily mind killing him and hoping fox and bee fight. Risky move though.
345 fox pushes back on zyf
347 I'd have killed zyf by bee
364 fox setup specs, suggestion of rb suggests possible non tracker pr
367 fox talking about PR roles, I get sense that he may well know the setup because he's a PR
374 when play is "off" it usually means Mafia or PR. fox not Mafia...
381 beeboy, could be a doc/cop/bp himself
422/3 targets on fox

Wild guess: fox tracker, beeboy doc or bp.

[Zyf]

Wow short of frikin beeboy rask that's the most brutal setup we could have
Double experienced scumteam + weirdo who quickhammers as town + one power role who never even crumbed + the only experienced protown player being sick

What the hell man that's me + sick (who were against each other the whole game) vs you two
Yeah there was no way to win that
Specific feedback for me?
Could use a bunch

[mhsmith0]

also ranger was a fear kill. And I don't blame rask for that one. Ranger is usually quite good. her early reads were off, but I suspect with time she'd have been a force. Good thing she didn't have that time.

PS This still counts as a win over ranger, right? Even though she's dead? I feel like it's nice payback for open 635 ... now I still need payback over FA/RC, even though 1782 sort of counts agianst RC...

[mhsmith0]

@zyf: yes I'll be happy to come up with feedback. I don't have anything super strong right off the cuff that's you specifc, but I'll try and think on it. I'll also see if our more veteran players around here have useful things to say as well.