Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Ranger]

That's actually a really important question with the potential to be missed on a page bottom.

Mod: Given the proximity of deadline and when our replacements have come in (namely, Thor, but also mhsmith0), can we get a deadline extension?

All slots are full and there are still two calendar days left in phase. Extension is not necessary.

[mhsmith0]

It's basically just that I think that Ranger and Thor are mafia at this point, so i think it's much less likely for Ploben to be mafia in that scenario. Certainly possible but not likely. Ploben is my third choice for a lynch today (though I think he's more likely town) behind Ranger and Thor

I've been townreading Ploben from the start and even analyzed him early on and considered the possibility of him mafia.

For the record, if he is mafia I definitely want Ranger to go next regardless (I expect heavy resistance)

Dunn (and Panther too), IIRC part of your original wolf read of ranger was that you didn't like her attacks on ploben (I think http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7977085 was where it started for Dunn). Given that context, why would a ploben red flip make ranger look more suspicious?

[Dunnstral]

Because that was post 154 and we're now at post 1627

More specifically, I didn't (or didn't mean to) say that it makes Ranger

more

suspicious, rather I think it wouldn't make her

less

suspicious as I did explore the possibility of a ranger-ploben scum team and it seemed to kind of click together

What I mean by that, if ploben is mafia I'd be suspicious that Ranger is bussing

[ploben]

Get well Ranger. No fun being sick.

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.21

Ploben (4) - chip butty, ranger, mhsmith, karnos
Thor665 (5) - shadow, ploben, dunnstral, pantherpunt, BTD6 (L-2)
Ranger (2) - florestan, duppin
Dunnstral (1) - Thor

Not voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

[Thor665]

So is this (and other comments) an admission of loss of the scumread on my slot?
Because I don't think I've done anything, so basically you stopped scumreading the slot because a more intimidating player that you don't think you can get lynched is now in it?
What's up with that?

Read the game?

Pretty snarky reply considering you then answered the question for mhsmith a few posts later.

@mhsmith - seriously, want to move onto this with me?

I want to hear your thoughts on Ranger.

At the moment, don't really have any. He's doing more scumhunting than some of the slots I've seen thus far, but it's nothing particularly alignment telling. If you twisted my arm I'd put him on the town side.

Me and Thor are gonna have problems again.

He's already taking the line of unrighteous indignation by telling me I'm not analyzing his posts. Meanwhile he has like 4 posts and he wants me to infer he's reading nothing by answers he's given others.

Gfy

Yeah, how weird of me to, when I barely have any posts, react negatively towards a question who is answered by reading my posts.
I mean, you're complaining about it, as though I'm being a dick or something, yet you're ignoring that, y'know, your question was already answered - and you're *not* addressing whether or not you read my posts to find said answer.

Why is that?
Did you read my posts or not?
Specifically did you note the part where I brought up the Plob/Chip lying' conversation and asked Chip about it while citing info from the game no one had quoted at me?
If you did - why did you ask your question?
If you didn't...why are you being pissy about me noting that you aren't bothering to read my posts, because it appears I'm right?

[Chip Butty]

Ranger: get well.

Someone gave me a tip today. They think I may have a zinc deficiency. Pros:

1. It fits all of my symptoms, from a weaker immune system to my mental fatigue among other "pleasantries". It is also a probability based on my diet.
2. If true, it is easily fixed.

Cons:

1. This is just a self-diagnosis. Not a professional opinion.
2. The reason I know it is a probability on my diet is because I don't have
   a single thing
   in my entire house that is rich in zinc. Not one.
3. Even if this is the problem, and even if I do get some source of zinc, I don't anticipate an overnight recovery.

Still, this gives me hope I won't have to waste time and money on a doctor visit.

You prob know this already, but you can get zinc supplements at the pharmacy. I dunno if you're a supplements kind of person, but it might be something to consider. Anyway, get well soon.

[duppin]

Chip, please give me your current read on Ranger. I don't want "oh if Ranger is scum, town lost anyway" read and I don't want you to rate 4 players from towniest to scummiest. Just give me your read on Ranger based on her play please.

Okay, I'll get on it. I was going to do it anyway, but was waiting for the remainder of her cases. Since that now looks like it might take a while, might as well go ahead. BTW, this - "oh if Ranger is scum, town lost anyway" - was karnos, not me.

Oh you are correct, my bad. In any case, I'd still like to get your read on Ranger before day 1 ends please.

[duppin]

And yes I know that I need to move my vote. Obviously everyone knows where it is going.

[duppin]

@Thor, thoughts on mhsmith?

[Chip Butty]

Chip, please give me your current read on Ranger. I don't want "oh if Ranger is scum, town lost anyway" read and I don't want you to rate 4 players from towniest to scummiest. Just give me your read on Ranger based on her play please.

Okay, I'll get on it. I was going to do it anyway, but was waiting for the remainder of her cases. Since that now looks like it might take a while, might as well go ahead. BTW, this - "oh if Ranger is scum, town lost anyway" - was karnos, not me.

Oh you are correct, my bad. In any case, I'd still like to get your read on Ranger before day 1 ends please.

Thanks for the reminder. Unless I see something to change my mind, I think the headline will be that Ranger is probTown, but there are some scenarios where I can envisage her as scum. One prob is that, to my knowledge, I haven't played against scum.Ranger yet, so I don't really have a feel for that. I could prob go read some games but I'm a bit snowed under already - I'm playing an unprecedented four games right now. The other thing is that I just have so many scum candidates in this game, which is a bit unusual for me, and Ranger, imo, isn't looking nearly as likely as several others. And there is her reputation: I imagine that scum.Ranger plays a deep game, and the points that have been raised against her only work if she isn't actually very good as scum. I have to go do RL stuff now, but I hope to get onto this soonish, as in, in the next eight to ten hours.

[duppin]

Thank you for the answer.

Here's the thing, I'm not entirely sure what to make of Ranger's train dying. It seemed like it died because of people coming up with weak and soft town reads on her. (karnos > "if ranger is scum, we lost" and you basically just saying "well she is less suspicious than these people" by rating people). I honestly thought it was very weird, how no one was really willing to commit to a proper town read on her yet her train didn't get anywhere. I'm not sure that makes Ranger more suspicious though, I just feel her wagon was really strange and I'd like to get back to it later when we have more information.

Anyway, seeing as I need to move my vote, I still don't like Kuroi's slot and I think that ploben is most likely town. Obviously I'll vote for Thor if I have to pick between them, but we still have 2 days so I don't want to put him at L-1 just yet and would rather give him a chance to contribute.

So, @Thor as I just asked you before, I'd really like to hear your read on mhsmith. I assume you haven't read the full game yet, so I'd like to point out that he was calling your slot scum before you replaced into it.

[duppin]

Eh just to clarify Chip, the thing I mentioned about your read on Ranger was why I asked you about her. I'm glad you explained the read and it makes more sense to me now.

[Thor665]

@Thor, thoughts on mhsmith?

Slight initial buddying, followed by reads I agree with and active scumhunting - I toss him on the soft side of town currently.

So, @Thor as I just asked you before, I'd really like to hear your read on mhsmith. I assume you haven't read the full game yet, so I'd like to point out that he was calling your slot scum before you replaced into it.

Noted.

[duppin]

@Thor, thoughts on mhsmith?

Slight initial buddying.

So what do you think of him trying to buddy one of his scumreads?

[Thor665]

It's hard to say at this stage, especially since you hung a hat on it.

If, by dint of my replacement, he had dropped all scumhunting towards my slot and called it townish (which he has not done) then I think you would have a valid point in calling it suspect.
However, conversely, if he had kept the scumread and hadn't buddied me past the initial 'halloo!' (which is a valid level of buddying as we've played some games together and he doesn't appear to dislike me) then it would all seem perfectly natural, and simply a human response outside of the game.
By asking for feedback on it now, you've basically shot it to death as a scumhunting tool by making him highly aware of it (unless maybe he doesn't read this exchange...) so, now it's pretty much useless because I think you sprang on it far too early to have it be meaningful.

Do you think it's already meaningful at this stage, and that's why you're on about it?

[karnos]

Here's the thing, I'm not entirely sure what to make of Ranger's train dying. It seemed like it died because of people coming up with weak and soft town reads on her. (karnos > "if ranger is scum, we lost" and you basically just saying "well she is less suspicious than these people" by rating people). I honestly thought it was very weird, how no one was really willing to commit to a proper town read on her yet her train didn't get anywhere.

First of all, my comment that you love to keep quoting was long before anyone cast a single (serious) vote on ranger, it certainly didn't lead to the failure of your train.

As far as the rest of your point, isn't that how mafia is meant to be played? You don't vote the person you think kinda maybe might be scum, possibly. You vote the person at the top of your scum list. The idea that we should be voting ranger because she might be scum is silly when there so many of us have much more likely scum to lynch instead.

[PantherPunt]

I'm on mobile so I'll get to replying to Thor's startup of the lawyering later at some point. Playing golf most of the day.

I wanted to come in just to again reiterate how much of a VAST TONAL GULF there is between the one game I just played with florestan/itlepip and this game. Whole bunch of one liners that are insignificant to the game and almost no solving.

In that last game he asked questions, sometimes shot down answers and asked for clarifications on this questions etc. Here it's just commentary like he's only giving opinions on posts and not wanting to actually engage or delve into any of the topics of conversation. And that last wall was garbage. 1476 iirc? Looked before I started typing this so that might be wrong.

[ploben]

I'm on mobile so I'll get to replying to Thor's startup of the lawyering later at some point. Playing golf most of the day.

I wanted to come in just to again reiterate how much of a VAST TONAL GULF there is between the one game I just played with florestan/itlepip and this game. Whole bunch of one liners that are insignificant to the game and almost no solving.

In that last game he asked questions, sometimes shot down answers and asked for clarifications on this questions etc. Here it's just commentary like he's only giving opinions on posts and not wanting to actually engage or delve into any of the topics of conversation. And that last wall was garbage. 1476 iirc? Looked before I started typing this so that might be wrong.

Flor's lack of consideration for the Kuroi/Thor train makes me worried they are a scum team with a traitor floating somewhere. Flor can't jump on my train because he's been town reading me all day (trying for town cred?). He was fine with a Ranger lynch but almost fully disappeared when that Ranger wagon swung HARD to Kuroi/Thor.

[Thor665]

@Plob - in a world where you're town, and feel one large wagon hard swung into a wagon on me, why are you voting me? Like, is your theory that scum hard swung a wagon away from scum onto...other scum?

[duppin]

Do you think it's already meaningful at this stage, and that's why you're on about it?

Why wouldn't it be? There is a decent chance that you're getting lynched today, so I'd rather ask you now when I know it's possible.

I wanted to know what you thought about his play, because I personally thought it was really weird. I personally got the impression he changed his read on your slot as soon as you replaced in and that bothered me. He was trying to get you in on his ploben case, even though he was speculating that you two were scumbuddies before that. You not bringing that up yourself seemed to imply you hadn't really read up on the game (not blaming you), which was why I brought it up.

Here's the thing, I'm not entirely sure what to make of Ranger's train dying. It seemed like it died because of people coming up with weak and soft town reads on her. (karnos > "if ranger is scum, we lost" and you basically just saying "well she is less suspicious than these people" by rating people). I honestly thought it was very weird, how no one was really willing to commit to a proper town read on her yet her train didn't get anywhere.

First of all, my comment that you love to keep quoting was long before anyone cast a single (serious) vote on ranger, it certainly didn't lead to the failure of your train.

As far as the rest of your point, isn't that how mafia is meant to be played? You don't vote the person you think kinda maybe might be scum, possibly. You vote the person at the top of your scum list. The idea that we should be voting ranger because she might be scum is silly when there so many of us have much more likely scum to lynch instead.

Sorry I think you misunderstood my post. First of all you can't always lynch your top scum, you often have to settle for someone else. If people only voted on their top scum throughout the whole day, we'd probably never get a lynch in.

Anyway, my point was merely that it felt like no one was really townreading Ranger (at least not willing to commit) while several people were scumreading her hard, so I thought it was a bit how the train just died down.
Maybe it had to do with her defense, which I actually thought was okay as well, but would've expected more people to bring it up then. But as previously mentioned, this doesn't necessarily have to mean anything, at least not for now but is possibly something I'd like to look at again later when we have more information.

[ploben]

@Plob - in a world where you're town, and feel one large wagon hard swung into a wagon on me, why are you voting me? Like, is your theory that scum hard swung a wagon away from scum onto...other scum?

I'm voting you because your slot is scummy. My theory would actually clear Ranger in my mind, if that's the case. Trying to figure Flor out lately

[Thor665]

Why wouldn't it be?

For the reasons I stated - because it's too early to legit claim which way he was going with my slot.
Basically the framework was there, but you sprung the trap before he had stepped fully into it, and also before you knew if he would walk away from it.

[Thor665]

@Plob - in a world where you're town, and feel one large wagon hard swung into a wagon on me, why are you voting me? Like, is your theory that scum hard swung a wagon away from scum onto...other scum?

I'm voting you because your slot is scummy. My theory would actually clear Ranger in my mind, if that's the case. Trying to figure Flor out lately

So your theory is there was a wagon on town that HARD swung onto a wagon on scum because no one unduly influenced it at all?

[duppin]

I get your point but I don't necessarily agree.

I wanted to point out that he backed off as soon as you replaced in and tried to work with you. It's not necessarily a scumtell (could just be town trying to revaluate your slot). I wanted to know what you thought about it. I see no reason to wait until deadline and risk you not getting here in time to answer my question in case you get lynched.