Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Chip Butty]

Less than 48 hours to go, scum might be casting an eye on a no-lynch. There's two Town, at least, on THor's wagon. Unless you guys really think there is a strong case for Town.plob, why not come across to his wagon so we deny scum the no lynch?

[Dunnstral]

@Duppin - though while we're at it, if you find backing off scummy (and I agree) what do you think about Dunnstral who legit did back off from me and immediately started selling the Plob lynch?

No I didn't. Again, read the thread, read what I'm saying, and stop misrepping me because you're as annoying an Ranger this game

Do you consider his posting unreasonable from a town perspective? I feel like "we're late in day, we need a lynch, so fine I guess we can lynch plob" to not be ideal town by any stretch, but I think it's pretty plausible from a generic town perspective. I can see why it COULD be a wolf perspective, but I'm not at all seeing why it MUST be from a wolf perspective. I just don't see the case on Dunn being anywhere near as strong as plob.

I would find it more believable as a take if he hadn't specifically stated believing the lynch on me would be difficult prior to suddenly pushing for the claim.
Deadline might be his fear, but to have it coincide with my replacement (plus a belief I'm "harder" to lynch even though I've never played a single game with the guy) don't buy it so much. Looks strategic rather than pushing for an equal scumread to me.

Did I ever say you, thor, were harder to lynch that kuroi?

You're harder to lynch because you newly replaced in and we have a bunch of pansies in this game.

[Dunnstral]

Seriously thor reads as obvious scum to me, maybe moreso than kuroi because he's misrepping everything and pushing for a lynch on me (which is CLEARLY not going to happen...?) in order to avoid taking a stance on todays lynch choices

Thor has completely talked past Ranger. Wouldn't expect a "newbie mistake" like that but there it is

[Dunnstral]

Q: @mhsmith - seriously, want to move onto this with me?

A:

When I see a wagon shift hard from one player to another in non multiball I generally think one of two things, either the alignment of the two wagonees is the same, or the first one is more likely scum

.

More seriously, Dunn remains in my null zone. IMO there's a lack of intellectual scrutiny on the plob spot that I find reasonably consistent with a wolf... or a newish kind of player. And he's fairly newish around here (two months, and I THINK not a super high # of games played). So that's a plausible town perspective on it, therefore null. Ditto the kind of surrendering on the plob wagon he's started to move towards in 1601. It's certainly not an OBVIOUS town process there, but it is a PLAUSIBLE town process. So again, null. And I'm not voting a null over a wolf.

Ps speaking if wagon resistance, has ANY wagon been more seriously resisted today than plobens? It seems like "ploben vs not ploben" has been the story today, with karnos, ranger, kuroi/Thor all playing the part of counter wagon (IIRC anyway). That's a LOT of counter wagons while the other side remains rather firmly in place.

Think you're selling me short here with the newb explanation.

I said I'd vote ploben

to avoid a mislynch

, that's not "surrendering" anything. Though I am understanding that I won't be able to stop this Ploben lynch. In that case, why are people still on my case? Get someone elsel to vote Ploben if so many people are scumreading him. Otherwise, vote Thor with me. 48 hours left, I'm not switching my vote until there's 10 minutes left on deadline.

[mhsmith0]

Anyone who is town reading ploben should compare to this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

In that game...
No awkward retreats from positions
No awkward interactions
Little buddying
No obv!bs votes, or vote parking on lurkers
No "please make this wagon go away", notably different than http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p7934322, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p7935109, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7935113
Etc.

I'm sorry but that ISO is TOTALLY different than ploben in this game. I still have no idea why this lynch is this hard. It really shouldn't be.

[mhsmith0]

@dunn: I might compromise late on Thor if I have to, but I'd still VERY much prefer to lynch ploben. I do feel like thors positions on you are a bit reachy and I don't particularly care for it, but again, most obvious wolf first, worry about the rest later.

[ploben]

This is why I wanted to get this going yesterday. We are going to be up against it and we don't even have an L-1. The closest lynch we have (Thor) is 1 vote and an intent away from a claim. Then we have to deal with the claim.

Why are we waiting until the last second?

Post Edit: Since everyone loves meta (barf!), why don't you read my game where I was mafia and try to compare that game to this game. Cherry pick your evidence there...
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60829

[Shadow_step]

Florestan can try being less useless for once.

[ploben]

Florestan can try being less useless for once.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[mhsmith0]

Cool. Would you say posts like these
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6618995
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6619246
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6620571
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6621012

Are reasonably consistent w this game? I would say yes.

[mhsmith0]

Florestan can try being less useless for once.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I'll admit I chuckled at this.

[Thor665]

Did I ever say you, thor, were harder to lynch that kuroi?

You're harder to lynch because you newly replaced in and we have a bunch of pansies in this game.

So...yes, you did say that then.
You even repeated it here, functionally, though now claiming/clarifying it's because I'm a replacee.
Either way I'm harder to lynch than him - so why are you acting/faking like I'm misrepping you here? You know I'm not.

Seriously thor reads as obvious scum to me, maybe moreso than kuroi because he's misrepping everything and pushing for a lynch on me (which is CLEARLY not going to happen...?) in order to avoid taking a stance on todays lynch choices

I actually have taken a stance on only one lynch choice.
The other lynch choice is me...but if you'd like I would clarify myself as a town read...does that help?

@mhsmith - my case on Dunnstral is a bit reachy while he's calling me obv. scum for not taking a stance on the leading wagons when I've given a read on Plob, and shouldn't be a shock that I'm not giving a read on myself. Now, *maybe* he means the giant wagon on Ranger...but I kinda doubt it.

He's overwrought - you should vote to lynch him, I promise further histronics all paired with more falsehoods.

Feel free to fact check him versus me - I have all the time in the world for that laugh.

[ploben]

Cool. Would you say posts like these
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6618995
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6619246
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6620571
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6621012

Are reasonably consistent w this game? I would say yes.

Cherry pick some more, we got time.

This is why meta is GARBAGE! Any player who is aware of it can change it. If at any point one player was wrong on scum or town reading another player because of meta you should have the following tattooed to your forehead:
META IS A SHITTY SCUMHUNTING TACTIC.

[Thor665]

Anyone who is town reading ploben should compare to this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Can't really properly discuss this game due to site rules.

The look over is not screaming differently to me though.

@Ploben - Meta is not a bad scumhunting tactic, it is just often used in poor scumhunting. Just because some people VCA like dolts doesn't make VCA bad. Same deal.

Are you claiming you've changed your meta? As in, you agree with him that your actions are different?

[mhsmith0]

@thor: game is over, mod didn't change thread title. Or Ive WILDLY misread it.

[mhsmith0]

Specifically last page
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=650
Link to Mafia chat, dead chat, etc.

[mhsmith0]

Cool. Would you say posts like these
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p6618995
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6619246
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p6620571
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p6621012

Are reasonably consistent w this game? I would say yes.

Cherry pick some more, we got time.

This is why meta is GARBAGE! Any player who is aware of it can change it. If at any point one player was wrong on scum or town reading another player because of meta you should have the following tattooed to your forehead:
META IS A SHITTY SCUMHUNTING TACTIC.

Meta is a tool, like any other. It can be used well or poorly. It generally shouldn't be the primary part of a case but can still buttress it.

[ploben]

Anyone who is town reading ploben should compare to this game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Can't really properly discuss this game due to site rules.

Check the mod. You'll understand why there's like 3 vote counts in the entire game and the thread title isn't changed.

@Ploben - Meta is not a bad scumhunting tactic, it is just often used in poor scumhunting. Just because some people VCA like dolts doesn't make VCA bad. Same deal.

Are you claiming you've changed your meta? As in, you agree with him that your actions are different?

I'm claiming meta is garbage and when I flip this game, at some point, you'll see the error of your ways. Because games where I was mafia and look like the same in this game? WRONG. Games where I was town and don't look like this game? WRONG.

[Thor665]

@thor: game is over, mod didn't change thread title. Or Ive WILDLY misread it.

Oh yeah, weird, looks like they're still waiting on him actually.
I stand by my initial comment - I don't really see it, that said, I'll agree that Plob is acting like it's very much there, so we'll sidebar that thought for the time being.

I'm claiming meta is garbage and when I flip this game, at some point, you'll see the error of your ways. Because games where I was mafia and look like the same in this game? WRONG. Games where I was town and don't look like this game? WRONG.

You're kinda soft sidestepping my question - I'm asking you if you intentionally game your meta. It's a yes or no question. Do you or don't you?

[ploben]

You're kinda soft sidestepping my question - I'm asking you if you intentionally game your meta. It's a yes or no question. Do you or don't you?

No I don't. I play each game individually without thought to previous games' actions and alignments. My IRL personality mirrors my posting style. I think I'm not that good at mafia so I don't need to complicate it by trying to game my meta and really fucking up.

[ploben]

It's a lot like golf: It's a tough enough game already, no need to make it any harder on yourself.

Spoiler:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callback_(comedy)

[Dunnstral]

Ploben can I get a reads list with your thoughts on everyone

[Dunnstral]

@Thor Ranger was at L-2 earlier and votes switched to you so it wasn't going to happen. Hope that clarifies that past 1500 posts

[Chip Butty]

Sorry, haven't got round to doing my Ranger read yet, but it doesn't look like we've moved any closer to the end of Day 1 anyway. Also, zzzzzzzzzz

[Florestan]

Duppin can you use your brain a bit and vote Kuroi/Thor since you think Ploben is town.

Or are you happy with parking your vote there?

Same for Florestan really, someone put him on l-1 and state intent so that we can get a claim.

I'm tired of reading this useless fluff.

Sorry this game moved to a place that I just find super boring. I'm going to iso review people tonight to try to get something out of this game, if I still end up with nothing I'll probably replace out but we'll see.

On the other hand, pushing the ploben wagon to lynch has been difficult. Would it be this difficult if there were scum on the wagon?

Can't know for sure, but the difficulty makes me think it might be a good wagon on an actual scum.

No.

Votecount 1.21

Ploben (4) - chip butty, ranger, mhsmith, karnos
Thor665 (5) - shadow, ploben, dunnstral, pantherpunt, BTD6 (L-2)
Ranger (2) - florestan, duppin
Dunnstral (1) - Thor

Not voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

Thing is, I'm reading the wagon on plob as Town-driven. karnos, mhsmith, feel okay about Ranger (with some reservations)
On the other hand, the wagon on Thor has four suspicious characters on it (all except Shadow)
Florestan's and duppin's votes on Ranger just look a bit lost atm.
Thor's vote on Dunn: Really doubt that wagon is going to happen today.

Towndriven wagons don't mean that they are on scum. Why is this being said so many times today, its such a useless argument. If that is so then we should just flip literally any of the wagon and then just do the simplest VCA and we will solve this game. Ugh this is why this game is such a mess because people keep saying these arguments that are so inherently wrong. You can't think that mafia are all hard aligning just because that is easier for you to do.

Less than 48 hours to go, scum might be casting an eye on a no-lynch. There's two Town, at least, on THor's wagon. Unless you guys really think there is a strong case for Town.plob, why not come across to his wagon so we deny scum the no lynch?

Nothing in this post makes sense besides pointing out the deadline. Scum are not going for a NL since I have never seen that happen, one of the two wagons are going to be lynched and if scum aren't active it means that both are town. This whole logic feels like an easy out to a town Ploben flip, really really disliking Chip here.

VOTE: Chip might be frustration but the amout of obvious misrepresenting bad logic that has come from his slot is awful.