Mini 1802: Paint Mafia Sequel - Game Over!

[Cheetory6]

VoteCount 1.07

"Draw Me"

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lalaladucks [2]

- Dwlee99, pieguyn

Ranger [1]

- TehBrawlGuy

Not Voting [10]:

Aristophanes, Bellaphant, itlepip, Katsuki, lalaladucks, Nahdia, Nina Williams, Ranger, Spiffeh, UpTooLate

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With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
You have (expired on 2016-06-25 17:00:00) to do so.

[pieguyn]

btw

Request: a turtle standing upright and leaning against a lamppost, with its arms extended forward as if trying to hug it.

my turtle beats all of your animals. any objections?

[Bellaphant]

If Ranger thinks she is going to get nk-ed (which, look at her sig) it kinda doesn't matter if she outs that she's gonna be mod confirmed (assuming this is true) and it's a super dumb thing to lie about: if it's not today, and it doesn't happen late game she's got to, as scum, play a whole game avoiding associatives and stuff because it's basically a guilty on her.

So, why would scum! ranger fake it? Like, I'm with pie here. (p-edit, I'm more confused by the latest point: can you explain that to me like i'm five?) This seems a reachy way of getting rid of someone that's a threat.

I could vote here, or the rest of nahdia's list, barring something from tsq's replacement that isn't...tsq-y.

[Nahdia]

oh right tsq is katsuki now.

yeah i'd lynch katsuki too.

[pieguyn]

i'm saying Ranger claims a confirmable role on D1 to reduce the amount of scum hunting pressure placed on the rest of the player list (only 11 people to sort instead of 12), and then from there, she tries to play under-the-radar in order to survive as long as possible.

i'm not claiming it necessarily is what she's doing, just that it's the first possibility that i can think of. but either way you're correct to say it's a stupid thing for her to lie about

[Nahdia]

so what's the case on ducks besides "her readslist seemed vapid" or is that it?

meanwhile

VOTE: spiffeh

[TehBrawlGuy]

Welp. VOTE: Ranger.

you break my heart. haven't you been saying this whole time you've agreed with my read on lala?

I think Ranger's approach this game is fairly standard for her. I think that her just doing her own thing, especially in this situation, definitely falls in line with how she would play as town, and there's another reason that I find her town based on her play which I don't really know if I should talk about at this point or not (since it's kind of speculative...) and either way I don't really see why we would lynch her when she's claimed a confirmable town role.

Why would a town PR "trying to play UTR and dodge kills" claim confirmable under no pressure on D1? Her actions don't line up as Town PR, they don't make sense as Town VT, but they make a lot of sense as Scum imo.

she claims a confirmable role so that people (in theory) can rule her as being scum and focus on scum hunting elsewhere, and then tries to play under-the-radar so she can survive as late into the game as possible.

i've definitely seen something like this done in other games, specifically the idea of a clear trying to keep themselves alive to reduce the amount of people the player list has to sort. this seems entirely plausible to me and i'm not really going to speculate on her role is when i have no way of knowing if i'm evaluating every possibility or not

Why would she do it under no pressure, though? If she's a PR, surely it would be wiser to just play UTR and only claim if you're becoming a distraction? I can maybe see this claim coming from an IC, but if she's an IC, she just claims that when we run her to L-2 and we lynch elsewhere.

I can see a clear doing this if they were already cleared, but I don't see the point of clearing yourself and then going UTR rather than just going UTR outright.

pedit @ bella:
scum!ranger I think fakes it because scum!ranger is some kind of Scum PR and wants a free ride to late-game to do her shit. If she were hypothetically a Scum Rolecop, or even something weird like a Scum double-painter that can paint twice in a night, she's a glorified goon once in the endgame, but staying alive until then is massive for the Scumteam, even if it costs her life eventually.

pedit2 @ pie:
Okay, but why would she claim it at that time? Why not once she took heat, which she probably wouldn't, considering she's playing UTR anyway? Hell, taking some heat and THEN claiming would give us a decent body to analyze.
Assume she's Scum for a moment. When in the phase would she claim? Immediately, because she needs the claim to have credence - she can't back it up as she would have to if she claimed it under pressure.
town!ranger doesn't make that claim off the bat, scum!ranger has to

[pieguyn]

so what's the case on ducks besides "her readslist seemed vapid" or is that it?

meanwhile

VOTE: spiffeh

i don't know if this is a misrepresentation or if you're just mixing up my point but i don't really like you handwaving basically everything i've wrote about her this game as "her readslist seemed vapid". even if you don't agree with my point, i've explained in death why i specifically think that the *way* she caught up and formed her reads wasn't town-oriented, and why the reasoning she gave behind her reads seemed fake, not just "vapid". i've also pointed out that her "i didn't have any time to look through Nina/TSQ more" is just a bullshit excuse she gave to stall the wagon out, as even when she *did* have time, she didn't do it.

[pieguyn]

Okay, but why would she claim it at that time? Why not once she took heat, which she probably wouldn't, considering she's playing UTR anyway? Hell, taking some heat and THEN claiming would give us a decent body to analyze.

probably because if she did, there would be people like ... yourself ... who continue to question the claim despite it being a "confirmable role" claim. you said it yourself, right? it would be much more difficult for her to back up the claim if she made it under pressure

claiming immediately makes more sense when you realize that claiming it under pressure is still somewhat risky

[Nahdia]

so what's the case on ducks besides "her readslist seemed vapid" or is that it?

meanwhile

VOTE: spiffeh

i don't know if this is a misrepresentation or if you're just mixing up my point but i don't really like you handwaving basically everything i've wrote about her this game as "her readslist seemed vapid". even if you don't agree with my point, i've explained in death why i specifically think that the *way* she caught up and formed her reads wasn't town-oriented, and why the reasoning she gave behind her reads seemed fake, not just "vapid". i've also pointed out that her "i didn't have any time to look through Nina/TSQ more" is just a bullshit excuse she gave to stall the wagon out, as even when she *did* have time, she didn't do it.

tl;dr

[pieguyn]

um, you want me to give a tl;dr of my read?

as i understood it, you already read my in-depth explanation of it and "disagreed with just about everything" i was writing. has your opinion changed?

[Nahdia]

no sorry i was just messing with you again.

i guess i was oversimplifying but i was wondering if there was anything you're seeing as scummy from her besides that readslist because she does have other content now.

[pieguyn]

for one, it isn't just "that readslist". it's the readslist, what she did leading up to the readslist, and her approach to the game in general.

second, her latest posts are scummy, for a few reasons which i've explained already. first off, you call it "content", but there really is no content there. she literally came back, "responded" to me, put a vote on Nina, and left again. you seem to be voting Spiffeh for a lack of content - this is the same fucking thing: putting a vote on the leading wagon and offering no reads whatsoever. the response to me itself was mostly irrelevant, and ignored the majority of the arguments i was actually making - as just one example, her response to me saying she was ignoring Nina/TSQ's argument was ... ??? ... and her response to me saying she had no original content was basically just to shrug and say "yes, everyone else keeps saying what i want to say" with still no attempt at generating original content. the entire response is like that, those are just the first two i can think of OTOH. i would like to know what you think her latest content actually was

and i've already said this, but the last line of 326 is scummy for an entirely different reason. she claimed her intent was to "sort Nina/TSQ out later". then she came back and blatantly voted Nina without putting any effort into doing this at all. does that strike you as town who actually takes pause at the Nina interactions, or does it strike you as scum who's just bullshitting a reason for stalling out the Nina interactions?

[Ranger]

Spiffeh [3] - Bellaphant,

pieguyn

, itlepip
UpTooLate [1] - Aristophanes
Nina Williams [7] -

TehBrawlGuy

, Nahdia,

UpTooLate

, Spiffeh, lalaladucks, Katsuki, Dwlee99

^This is what I'm mostly looking at right now, by the way.

It's just a guess; I do need to get back in the game.

But...

VOTE: TehBrawlGuy.
For now.

[Nahdia]

that seems...... unlikely.

[itlepip]

That you are scum, so didn't need to sort all of the town, pip. I dunno why you are going for 'meta game' when the answer seems obvious.

Tehbrawl, why?

Why would I not make up a fake read then? No that doesn't make sense either but I'm not sure what to say to this. Is town really obligated to have a read on everyone or explain why they don't? Just nothing they've done pushed me either way, now I think they are town because we know they are town. But nothing they have done seems alignment indicative at all.

That you are scum, so didn't need to sort all of the town, pip. I dunno why you are going for 'meta game' when the answer seems obvious.

Tehbrawl, why?

ranger's completely focused on discussing if we should townhunt and hasn't really commented on /anyone/ as scum except for me, which I read as intentional avoidance

To expand on that, in 44, Ranger posts a reads list w/ no reasoning, then in 45 she votse Aristo, who isn't even the most scum on her list (that was Nina) with no reasoning. After that, she devolved into only attempting to clear Pie. Her only post indicating suspicion of

anyone

is her 245 on me, which again has no actual reasoning. When I called her out on it, and her avoidance of commenting on the Nina wagon, she stated in her 343 that she's got new reads - but she doesn't post any of them, doesn't explain why she wants to lynch me, and STILL doesn't address Nina.

tl;dr look at her ISO

• she's made no attempt to scumhunt other than a passing comment that we should lynch me
  she's actively avoided ever mentioning Nina, despite Nina being one of her top scumreads
  she's never posted reasoning for anything she's done
  she's never posted reads since we got out of RVS
  she's active lurked super well by tunnelling on using the flip to conftown a strong player, despite nobody agreeing with it
  I also don't buy the part about her being modconfirmed at some point

Well then you yell are her tomorrow if she doesn't confirm herself, doing this today is dumb since we are never going to lynch her because that is how mechanics work.
There isn't a scum role in existance that is worth it always being lynched d2.

Ranger if you are gambiting say it now because you are not living d2 if you say it then

even if you "don't buy the part about her being modconfirmed at some point", why is that a reason for lynching her on day 1? it's more correct theory-wise to leave her alive until day 3 or so, and then lynch/question the claim if she still hasn't been confirmed by then

Let's run through the scenarios:

Ranger is Town PR

: We out her with a claim, swap lynch targets and she presumably gets blocked/killed - This is bad, but why would a role like Cop/Vig/etc claim as she did on D1 and put a target on themselves? That makes no sense, so I don't think she falls into this.

Ranger is IC:

We out her, swap lynch targets, and she dies in the night - her getting outed and dying is going to happen anyway, so it doesn't hurt much to have it now, especially since we have a conftown in Nina as is

Ranger is VT gambiting:

We probably mislynch, but we only lose an unhelpful VT - this is the realistic WCS to me

Ranger is Scum PR, gambiting to stay alive and use her power:

We either lynch her today and she dies before she can use her role, which is massive, or we force her into a hard claim and make it harder for her to wiggle later - both of these are huge wins for us, and this is the most likely scenario to me

Ranger is mafia goon

- She's caught and we lynch her today - this is another big win

Situations #1 and #2 make no sense to me - why would a PR or IC claim this? What advantage does it give them? I've thought she was gambiting VT since the claim, and didn't want to say it for fear of ruining the plan, but at this point I don't believe that.
If she was truly a VT attempting to draw the NK, why hasn't she scumhunted or done

anything

to make herself a tempting target to the Scumteam? You don't draw the NK by softclaiming confirmable and then sitting on your hands. Also, if she WAS a VT and wanted to draw the early kill, why would she push to confirm Pie as town, given how strong Pie's town game is, and that Pie would be the obvious N1 kill over herself?

pedit:

I think trying to play less open and more under-the-radar in order to dodge NKs until later in the game is something she would do.

Why would a town PR "trying to play UTR and dodge kills" claim confirmable under no pressure on D1? Her actions don't line up as Town PR, they don't make sense as Town VT, but they make a lot of sense as Scum imo.

I don't like how hard you are pushing this at all.

[Ranger]

Ranger if you are gambiting say it now because you are not living d2 if you say it then

This is not a gambit.
I will be confirmed town.

[lalaladucks]

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

i tried to respond to your points pie but whatever

i also want nina and katsuki(tsq) to come back and actually do something before i attempt to sort them.

am worried about utl since she apparently dislikes rolling scum so maybe she rolled scum this time and that's why she's apathetic? ack.

also kats, tsq was my strongest scumread and i rly rly don't wanna lynch you but you totally look like a scumbum rn

[lalaladucks]

say something i'm giving up on you

[lalaladucks]

omg i should request something

i request hmmmmmmmmmmmhmmmhmmmmmhmmmmmhmmmhmmhmhmhmhmhmhmmmmmhmhmhmhmhmmhmhmhm

hermione doing a spell on harry to vomit rainbow on ron

[lalaladucks]

i also want nina and katsuki(tsq) to come back and actually do something before i attempt to sort them.

oh right nina flipped blue.... yeah....... i'm good at paying attention......... but she's been awol for like 5 days now?

[lalaladucks]

2 days*

fuck

[TehBrawlGuy]

Ranger if you are gambiting say it now because you are not living d2 if you say it then

This is not a gambit.
I will be confirmed town.

I'm still wary, but I can't push in the face of this and nobody's backing me, so VOTE: Spiffeh. Still support Lala wagon but I think the odds are better on Spiffeh. Lala's pretty clearly disconnected, see:

i also want nina ... to come back and actually do something before i attempt to sort them.

so i can buy town!lala not sorting anyone and making lazy arguments. It's still scummy so she doesn't get a pass for it, but if she were town, I can see it looking like this.

[Nina Williams]

been a bit busy.

[Nina Williams]

Now that I've flipped blue, can we lynch thestatusquo yet?