Newbie 1717: Newbies Through the Looking Glass (Game Over)

[Harkonnen97]

Hello! I will catch up in a bit. This is my first game on this forum, but I've played a few FM games on other forums before. So hopefully I'm not complete garbage

[Harkonnen97]

English isn't my first language. I have a hard time understanding some of the longer words that all of you like using, so, sorry if I don't always understand what you're trying to say.


Grace - Leaning Town
This is Grace's first game, so it is understandable that she would use emotion to justify herself. When she saw Accoutant being aggresive and trying to "create something out of nothing", I believe she tried to do the same herself, but then she realized she doesn't have the experience to do it. Not ruling out the possibility that she could be scum who realized she bit more than she can chew, but I don't believe that this is the case. She is trying to scumhunt, in her own way.

Simoyd - Leaning Town, mostly because of his ... interrogation? (don't know how to call it) against Accountant. I don't believe that if he was scum he would be pushing for a ML on the IC so early, and with so little to back it up. Another thing, even after alot of people stated that my slot (Meepo) was a very strong townread, Smoyd still said he is scumreading me. That for me is a town slip, because I feel like he is genuinely trying to scumhunt, instead of just trying to

appear

to be doing so. If that makes any sense.

RC - Leanining Town
This probably sounds really stupid, but this I am townreading him because he is accusing Accountant with little to no reasoning. In my eyes, Accountat is very likely to get lynched today, and if she were to flip Town, RC would get into alot of trouble tommorow. So, if he was scum, I think he would try harder to get her mislynched, and make it seem like Accountant got lynched because she was scumslipping herself, not because he pushed her for no reason. I think that aggresively pushing for the target you are scumreading, and not caring about how others read you is a town trait. Most important thing for scum is to look Town, the most important thing for Town isn't to look like Town.

As for everyone else, I have a null read on them. Sorry that I don't have any strong scumreads yet. If anything, I wouldn't oppose a Pants98 lynch, because I don't see much town motivation behind his posts. So basically a Policy Lynch.

I'm really paranoid when it comes to active players who post alot and are loud. I have no idea how to read them, because their posts could be justified through both Town and scum point of view. So far, Accountant has been doing her job well as IC - explaining some basic stuff, and going in aggresively, quickly changing the Day 1 Topic from joking around to a serious discussion. I'm not convinced that she is scum, and if possible I would like to ask RC or Postie to please explain why are they so confident that she is scum, because I don't really understand.

[Accountant]

I don't agree that a lynch on myself is the most likely option for Day 1. The case simply falls down upon a close examination. Someone like pants is far more likely to get lynched.

[Simoyd]

Town
Meepo

People please don`t voice your town reads so obviously just yet, because it will be easier to determine for scum who to kill during the night.

This seems pretty town motivated from Meepo.

In the end I was town-lean on meepo. This was a bigger tell to me than anything else I had on him.

[Simoyd]

I'm hoping pants will get replaced so that we don't have to lynch him...

[Lycanfire]

More thoughts coming but for now I have an important question-

Do you think a better lynch exists than Pants, Accountant?

[RadiantCowbells]

Accountant is getting scummier and scummier for the record.

Like, they really need rope today.

[Accountant]

@Lycanfire: RC is the only alternative lynch I'd accept

[Harkonnen97]

Why RC? This is just OMGUS from you.

[Lycanfire]

@Lycanfire: RC is the only alternative lynch I'd accept

If I had a definitive answer I would have been able to call your alignment 100%.

[Lycanfire]

I have no idea why you're literally refusing to look at my scumgames.

I work full time in retail performing several different jobs and make my posts as I eat or have my breaks. Why do you think you're worth true extensive meta research spanning scumgame vs town game vs town game instead of the only relevant analysis-towngame vs towngame of two different people when choosing to make my vote?

It was good enough to give me responses that have made me choose to keep my vote on you. You're really going to have to deal with it, or re-vote me if it's suspect.

I thought #104 was pretty meaningful, Lyc. Is there any other reason why you think IV is suspicious?

It was. My problem was that between my first post and my post placing him as scum, he didn't make a meaningful one, despite making a few in that time.

Accountant's defense of me, while slightly odd I agree, was completely right.

Odd? Accountant said you were V/LA when you weren't tagged as V/LA. You gave some response about being burned out from your last game and left. Accountant's defense of you was flaccid, and I didn't start questioning it until Simoyd wanted to interrogate Accountant-I let him slide as going for him wasn't going to make you post, allowing him to pressure Mizzy was going to tell me more of his character. I wasn't about to derail that when my focus has decided to go MIA.

I didn't need to do any more defense of myself when Accountant had given basically the same defense I would've given, why put in the extra time?

Scum don't have incentive to post while pressured, obv

[innocentvillager]

I work full time in retail performing several different jobs and make my posts as I eat or have my breaks. Why do you think you're worth true extensive meta research spanning scumgame vs town game vs town game instead of the only relevant analysis-towngame vs towngame of two different people when choosing to make my vote?

Bruh how long does it take to read briefly through one or two scum games and get an impression? Probably way less time than it takes to write that post of yours. We're all busy here, no one sits on their computer 3-4 hours every day playing mafiascum. If you actually cared about finding scum and you actually have a scumread on me, investigate further into me and maybe you'll get another conclusion from my scumgame.

It was good enough to give me responses that have made me choose to keep my vote on you.

"it was good enough to keep my vote on you" I really don't like this statement. It's like you're refusing to take a few minutes to actually look for something that could be further evidence for your top scumread, and going like "OKAY, you're scummy enough for me". This is not a town-mindset, no matter how burdened you are. But looking at your postcount and the fact that you have taken the time to defend yourself using such defense shows that you clearly have enough time.

I'm pretty sure I've already said this, but if most townies really thought someone was scum and they had meta at their disposal, we wouldn't just look at one side of the coin and come to a conclusion. You simply can't note someone scum for deviating from the one or two towngames you skimmed of them. I'm sorry, you just can't.

You're really going to have to deal with it, or re-vote me if it's suspect.

I was going to do it anyway.

VOTE: Lycanfire

Scum don't have incentive to post while pressured, obv

This is just wrong. I've already explained why.

Odd? Accountant said you were V/LA when you weren't tagged as V/LA. You gave some response about being burned out from your last game and left. Accountant's defense of you was flaccid, and I didn't start questioning it until Simoyd wanted to interrogate Accountant-I let him slide as going for him wasn't going to make you post, allowing him to pressure Mizzy was going to tell me more of his character. I wasn't about to derail that when my focus has decided to go MIA.

It was rather odd that he took time to defend me, that's what I mean by odd, but the content was correct. I was on vacation so unofficially V/LA, but I don't need to declare that since I figured I could probably post once every two days. And yes, I was burnt out from my last game and I didn't post for a bit. Why you're scumreading me for not immediately jumping to my defense is ridiculous at best.

Still waiting on Pants to come back and actually post something.

[innocentvillager]

Okay, I admit I am getting a bit tunnelly this game on Lycan/Pants/etc, so I'm going to figure out where I stand on my reads. My current reads list:

Town

Simoyd

Town-leaning

Harkonnen/Meepo (Both somewhat townie)

Null

RC
Grace
Mizzy/Postie (Postie is townier than Mizzy, which averages to null)

Scum-leaning

Accountant

Scum

Pants
Lycanfire

I have never had such an even distribution of reads before. What is this

[RadiantCowbells]

IV/Accountant scumteam. discuss.

[Harkonnen97]

Accountant did chainsaw defend IV, something that she herself said is scummy. IV is too trying to push the attentioon away from Accountant. I agree it's likely that if one of them flips scum, so will the other one. But I'm still not convinced that either of them is scum until I hear some more concrete reasoning. (sorry if it was already said and I missed it)

[Simoyd]

@Accountant: what is your read on Lycanfire?

[Lycanfire]

Complaining about meta that I pressured you over Mizzy is a distraction. I chose you because you were more disappointing. You continued to disappoint me, so my vote has stayed in lack of obvious scum. Flailing around talking about meta doesn't help your case, it only shows that you want to pass the same posts back and forth.

Next, your list of Pants/Myself/Accountant as likely scum is so incredibly flawed. Of the different possible scum teams, the only one that could plausibly be true is Myself/Accountant. But if this is the case why is Pants there?

Is Pants on there for being universally disliked from promising twice to make a post that never appeared? Is he there because the deadline is/was supposedly the 18th (prior to replacements)?

Is Pants your best lynch choice?

I'll flat out say right now: Pants is not the best choice. That's why I was disappointed with Accountant's answer: he could have said RC was just as likely, or that they were the scumteam, that one was more likely than the other sure, but what I asked was if Pants was the best lynch candidate. This means yes or no, not "yes if not him then other person". I don't know if that's 50/50 or 80/20 or in favor or who.

Simply, Pants is not the best lynch because it doesn't give us clues as to who his partner is. For Accountant moreso-that's why I said it was important and asked him, rather than anyone else. In my opinion, if Pants flips scum Accountant is town. I think this is a safe assumption. For the rest of us, we won't have much clue as to who their partner is based on their posts, but we will know two things-we are town, and Accountant is very likely town as well. Accountant does not get this luxury-if town, they would only know one person is town and has less scumhunting to work with tomorrow.

Therefore, there is no scumhunting Accountant can do tomorrow that he cannot do today.

.

If I'm your vote target why am I scum? Why should I be lynched? Make your case, because I'm not going to sit on my hands waiting for deadline so we can lynch Pants. Convince me that you're in this too.

[innocentvillager]

Wow, what a bad, bad post.

Complaining about meta that I pressured you over Mizzy is a distraction. I chose you because you were more disappointing. You continued to disappoint me, so my vote has stayed in lack of obvious scum. Flailing around talking about meta doesn't help your case, it only shows that you want to pass the same posts back and forth.

Yes, I am "passing the same posts back and forth", but somehow you have still managed to not realize why I'm not happy with you. I don't give a jackfuck that you pressured me over Mizzy. I don't care about Mizzy; in fact I don't think I've mentioned Mizzy at all in regards to this. Why was he even mentioned? I don't understand why I have to explain the fact over and over again that your meta on me is insincere and not town-motivated, since you have the time to write all of these random posts but can't take two seconds to skim through a scumgame or two of mine.

Next, your list of Pants/Myself/Accountant as likely scum is so incredibly flawed. Of the different possible scum teams, the only one that could plausibly be true is Myself/Accountant. But if this is the case why is Pants there?

They're all plausible. Trying to divine the scumteam from Day 1 never works, I'd estimate it's wrong at least 95% of the time. I don't even think about scumteams until Day 2, when two flips have happened and people actually decide which wagon they're sticking with. One scum at a time. If you're town somehow, don't get ahead of yourself, I promise it doesn't work. We're not even at the end of d1—early game interactions don't mean anything because they can easily be reversed before the end of the day deadline.

I don't get why people think defending someone else early in Day 1 points to a scumteam between them. That's one tell I'll never understand, much less agree with. No one gives a fuck what happens in early/mid D1 in terms of interactions. If this dynamic were to continue well into D2, fine, that's noteworthy.

They're ALL SCUMMY. That's why they're there. What a concept.

Is Pants on there for being universally disliked from promising twice to make a post that never appeared? Is he there because the deadline is/was supposedly the 18th (prior to replacements)?

Again. You're not even reading my posts . I've said my reasoning for my Pants scumread at least twice. I'm not repeating it again.

Is Pants your best lynch choice?

I'll flat out say right now: Pants is not the best choice. That's why I was disappointed with Accountant's answer: he could have said RC was just as likely, or that they were the scumteam, that one was more likely than the other sure, but what I asked was if Pants was the best lynch candidate. This means yes or no, not "yes if not him then other person". I don't know if that's 50/50 or 80/20 or in favor or who.

Simply, Pants is not the best lynch because it doesn't give us clues as to who his partner is. For Accountant moreso-that's why I said it was important and asked him, rather than anyone else. In my opinion, if Pants flips scum Accountant is town. I think this is a safe assumption. For the rest of us, we won't have much clue as to who their partner is based on their posts, but we will know two things-we are town, and Accountant is very likely town as well. Accountant does not get this luxury-if town, they would only know one person is town and has less scumhunting to work with tomorrow.

Therefore, there is no scumhunting Accountant can do tomorrow that he cannot do today.

.

I never claimed Pants to be the best lynch choice, I'm not even sure why this block of text is here. Enlighten me.

If I'm your vote target why am I scum? Why should I be lynched? Make your case, because I'm not going to sit on my hands waiting for deadline so we can lynch Pants. Convince me that you're in this too.

WHY DO YOU NOT READ WHAT I WRITE? Did you just not see posts 104, 248, or 261? I've explained why you're scum multiple times. Hey, let's add cursory reading/bullshit posting/misreps to the mix!

VOTE: Lycanfire

In case it wasn't already clear.

[Accountant]

Lycanfire is null. My read on RC is based on their lack of scumhunting, not OMGUS. Someone still needs to explain the case on me because there's absolutely no reasoning.

[Lycanfire]

You're still ignoring my tell I pointed out in my first post. If you called my premise silly rather than complain all game I would have unvoted you ages ago.

Secondly, I wasn't claiming that you believed Pants was the best lynch-I was claiming your three choices were suspect due to his inclusion on your list for two separate reasons. I questioned why you were voting me at all if you were going to defend rather than attack all game with the conclusion that Pants may be on your list because he is convenient.

[Xalxe]

Pants98

has 24 hours to make a game-advancing post or be replaced.

[RadiantCowbells]

Lycanfire is null. My read on RC is based on their lack of scumhunting, not OMGUS. Someone still needs to explain the case on me because there's absolutely no reasoning.

not town rxn.

[Postie]

IV/Accountant scumteam. discuss.

No.

[Postie]

I don't let people into my townpool willy-nilly. I can dig through IV's ISO and find what he said to make me townread him if you like, but I'm fairly sure he's town.
It's either Accountant/Pants or Accountant/Lycan.

[Accountant]

Why Lycan?