Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Florestan]

Also I know we are at deadline and Chip isn't going to be lynched, just let me reread more please.

[Dunnstral]

Yeah.... Chip not getting lynched man

Will let you read

[Dunnstral]

Scum are not going for a NL since I have never seen that happen,

one of the two wagons are going to be lynched and if scum aren't active it means that both are town.

This whole logic feels like an easy out to a town Ploben flip, really really disliking Chip here.

Wait what

[Florestan]

idk I'm tired. I'm just sick to death of this whole 'I think xx is scum so therefore this wagon is town thing' and right now I'm not super happy with either lynch. Huge power to everyone that is keeping up with this game because it is a massive struggal.

[Ranger]

I haven't played against scum.Ranger yet, so I don't really have a feel for that.

If you're ever in the mood to get a feel for it, I updated my wiki either yesterday or the day before that, btw. Every scum game except Near Vanilla is listed there.

Spoiler: In approximate chronological order

1. Blitz 1, C9++, first scumgame.
2. Mafiaception, contemporary Blitz 1. I had some real-life problems that contributed to not doing well.
3. Blitz 7.
4. Machina Mafia.
5. Blitz 25.
6. Mexican Standoff.
7. Pick Your Power X/Y (in spite of the loss, third-best scumgame).
8. Firebringer's Marathon Game.
9. Newbie 1692. JK9++, second-best scumgame largely thanks to RC.
10. Diffusion of Power, best scumgame.
11. Buzzfeed UPick.
12. Near Vanilla. (I was experiencing troubles that game for life-suck, not alignment-indicative, reasons, so it's up there with Mafiaception for worst performance from me, for similar reasons too.)
13. Anime UPick Pack A.
14. C9++. (Similar to Near Vanilla, life suck interfered with the game.)
15. Friends and Enemies and Enemies.
16. Setup UMake. (Barely a game at all; I got a role that was literally designed to lose the game for the mafia, because...I had designed it myself, with the intention someone else would get it.)
17. Carbon 14. (Nobody did much of anything that game, at all.)

If you find anything, feel free to share. Past experience with binge-reading my scum games has told me the only discernible pattern of my scum game is...that I have no discernible pattern in my scum game.

I honestly thought it was very weird, how no one was really willing to commit to a proper town read on her yet her train didn't get anywhere.

There is a player this describes!

It is not me!

Or Thor!
Or karnos!

But hmm...maybe it's a player that has some sort of relationship to those players?
Whatever could that relationship be?

[Ranger]

Whoops. Forgot Masons and Mafia.
Barely a scumgame at all since I wasn't in it until all my scumbuddies were dead and they quicklynched me.

[Ranger]

Thing is, I'm reading the wagon on plob as Town-driven. karnos, mhsmith, feel okay about Ranger (with some reservations)
On the other hand, the wagon on Thor has four suspicious characters on it (all except Shadow)

^So much this.

[Ranger]

Since everyone loves meta (barf!), why don't you read my game where I was mafia and try to compare that game to this game. Cherry pick your evidence there...

"I hate meta, but here's meta which should show I'm not scum here!"

Are reasonably consistent w this game? I would say yes.

"Yeah, nice try, but that just shows why you are."

Cherry pick some more, we got time. This is why meta is GARBAGE! Any player who is aware of it can change it. If at any point one player was wrong on scum or town reading another player because of meta you should have the following tattooed to your forehead: META IS A SHITTY SCUMHUNTING TACTIC.

"Well, uh...meta still is bad then! This just proves the point, yeah?"

That's literally what just happened.

[Thor665]

No I don't. I play each game individually without thought to previous games' actions and alignments. My IRL personality mirrors my posting style. I think I'm not that good at mafia so I don't need to complicate it by trying to game my meta and really Smurfing up.

Then why are you telling mhsmith that meta is so bad? In your case, played naturally, meta should be quite functional as long as he is accurately reading it.

@Thor Ranger was at L-2 earlier and votes switched to you so it wasn't going to happen. Hope that clarifies that past 1500 posts

So, while I openly declare that I'm not reading the past game, you're complaining about me not commenting on a large wagon that happened before I showed up?
I don't get it.

Sorry, haven't got round to doing my Ranger read yet, but it doesn't look like we've moved any closer to the end of Day 1 anyway. Also, zzzzzzzzzz

You should switch your vote to Dunnstrahl, a wagon changeup and claim will reinvigorate the game.

Sorry this game moved to a place that I just find super boring. I'm going to iso review people tonight to try to get something out of this game, if I still end up with nothing I'll probably replace out but we'll see.

You should vote Dunnstral, a new wagon and a claim will reinvigorate this game.

[Florestan]

Strong Town: Pantherpunt, Karnos
Lean Town: Ploben, Dunnstral
Null: Duppin, Florestan, Scott
Lean Scum: Ranger, Shadowstep, BTD6_Maker
Strong Scum: ChipButty

I've answered both these questions. I didn't like how Shadowstep was scum reading the original holder of my slot and I suspect it was because of Alpaca's inactivity. Shadowstep's response was troubling because it seemed bitter and angered to my suspicions.

I also unvoted Ranger because even as scum, I feel like I could follow Ranger's reads to help me find scum. Right now, I have her locked. If she steers me astray, I feel like I could catch her. She wants me alive because I could help lynch her. Ergo, I want her alive until her scum buddies are caught.

Forget all the "IC joke" stuff. Apart from that, do you see ploben's posting as Town? I mean, if you really go back and look at it...

It would say something if someone other than you said that.

But from you, it sounds like you're trying to cover your ass.

If you are Town, the Townest thing you can do is stfu.

That would be scum action. Scum coast. Town doesn't. Town wants to live. Scum wants to hope that they're forgotten about.

That's not true. I've scum read Ranger and she hasn't attacked me.

Also, I twisted my logic around. That's not the only symptom of scum. Chip's showing a different symptom - trying to cover his tracks.

@Chip
I think I've let IRL stuff get me a little more frustrated than I should. If you're town you deserve info to solve this game. How can I help?

This sounds like scum trying to appear like good guys. I can't say that I town-read Ploben anymore.

FYI, I'm probably going to replace out. I know I replaced in and honestly, I've never replaced out before, but I know as well as people I've played with that I can do so much better than I am.

But I can't get myself together to scum hunt, and this isn't fair to the rest of the townies.

I'm nearly lynched, and I'm not even fighting it.

I actually do have one question for everyone out there before I die/go away:

Would you LEARN something from my death?

Ugh I lost a shit load of stuff I was writing.
So far i'm more forgiving of stuff from Kuroi. I feel similar to the mindset that he claims got him to replace, so I feel for him there. I think his readlist is much better on reread. Alpaca's stuff feels null towny to me. 1603 has decent stuff from thor. Still I have seen townier thors. Null-scum there probably but the way this happened doesn't feel like a scum lynch. There never was a set narrative for why that slot was scum and I'm not sure I can come up with a good one either.

VTD 14 is bad, don't like his reaction to Ranger's angle shooting, 259 is defensive when dealing with a scumread, I hate this read normally, but 584 really really reads like caught for the wrong reasons, town would understand why activity is an issue. Really don't like this slot right now.

Chip: only person that really bought the whole 'Ploben slipped' awful narrative. 245 stuff is really awkward, 266 is an awkward backtrack, like his backtrack on Ranger being scum for the stupid JOAT thing and then scumreading the people that agreed with him. He has a lot more but all of it is dumb confbias stuff, less scummy that BTD but not a huge fan.

Do more later.

Holy shit Thor did you even read this game?

[Thor665]

Thor did you even read this game?

Do? Yes.
Did? No.

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.22

Ploben (4) - chip butty, ranger, mhsmith, karnos
Thor665 (5) - shadow, ploben, dunnstral, pantherpunt, BTD6 (L-2)
Ranger (1) - duppin
Dunnstral (1) - Thor
Chip Butty (1) - florestan

Not voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

[Florestan]

Strong Town: Pantherpunt, Karnos
Lean Town: Ploben, Dunnstral
Null: Duppin, Florestan, Scott
Lean Scum: Ranger, Shadowstep, BTD6_Maker
Strong Scum: ChipButty

I've answered both these questions. I didn't like how Shadowstep was scum reading the original holder of my slot and I suspect it was because of Alpaca's inactivity. Shadowstep's response was troubling because it seemed bitter and angered to my suspicions.

I also unvoted Ranger because even as scum, I feel like I could follow Ranger's reads to help me find scum. Right now, I have her locked. If she steers me astray, I feel like I could catch her. She wants me alive because I could help lynch her. Ergo, I want her alive until her scum buddies are caught.

Forget all the "IC joke" stuff. Apart from that, do you see ploben's posting as Town? I mean, if you really go back and look at it...

It would say something if someone other than you said that.

But from you, it sounds like you're trying to cover your ass.

If you are Town, the Townest thing you can do is stfu.

That would be scum action. Scum coast. Town doesn't. Town wants to live. Scum wants to hope that they're forgotten about.

That's not true. I've scum read Ranger and she hasn't attacked me.

Also, I twisted my logic around. That's not the only symptom of scum. Chip's showing a different symptom - trying to cover his tracks.

@Chip
I think I've let IRL stuff get me a little more frustrated than I should. If you're town you deserve info to solve this game. How can I help?

This sounds like scum trying to appear like good guys. I can't say that I town-read Ploben anymore.

FYI, I'm probably going to replace out. I know I replaced in and honestly, I've never replaced out before, but I know as well as people I've played with that I can do so much better than I am.

But I can't get myself together to scum hunt, and this isn't fair to the rest of the townies.

I'm nearly lynched, and I'm not even fighting it.

I actually do have one question for everyone out there before I die/go away:

Would you LEARN something from my death?

Thor are you not interested in a BTD quick lynch?

[Thor665]

Thor are you not interested in a BTD quick lynch?

On the basis that he voted me and isn't a town read for me - sure.
I think Dunnstal is a better bet overall though, as he meets those criteria and combines them with a sketchy action and some lies/exaggerations in his reaction back on the push on him.

[Chip Butty]

Towndriven wagons don't mean that they are on scum. Why is this being said so many times today, its such a useless argument. If that is so then we should just flip literally any of the wagon and then just do the simplest VCA and we will solve this game. Ugh this is why this game is such a mess because people keep saying these arguments that are so inherently wrong. You can't think that mafia are all hard aligning just because that is easier for you to do.

Duh, of course Town-driven wagons can be misguided. No-one thinks otherwise, because that would imply that Town are always correct. But, since I'm reading those on ploben's wagon as Town, I'm somewhat reassured that they are not scum trying to get a mislynch. Get it? Whereas if I see a wagon made up of people I think are scummy, I suspect that very thing. It's nt rocket science.

Less than 48 hours to go, scum might be casting an eye on a no-lynch. There's two Town, at least, on THor's wagon. Unless you guys really think there is a strong case for Town.plob, why not come across to his wagon so we deny scum the no lynch?

Nothing in this post makes sense besides pointing out the deadline. Scum are not going for a NL since I have never seen that happen, one of the two wagons are going to be lynched and if scum aren't active it means that both are town. This whole logic feels like an easy out to a town Ploben flip, really really disliking Chip here.

No, it ALL makes sense. For a start, there are at least two Town on Thor's wagon at that point, because five on the wagon, and only three scum. Duh. Also, just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it isn't a thing. That's yokel talk. I myself have won as scum and we DID successfully arrange no-lynches, so I know for a fact it is something scum can do, and use to win.

VOTE: Chip might be frustration but the amout of obvious misrepresenting bad logic that has come from his slot is awful.

You're way too be bad to be actual scum. You should just keep out of the way while we scum hunt. The value of your contribution this game has been minscule.

[Chip Butty]

Thor are you not interested in a BTD quick lynch?

Maybe you're scummy after all. I mean, less than 24 hours on the clock, you're voting me (who is widely Town-read and has no votes), under cover of this "frustration" BS, and now you want to focus on BTD, who also doesn't have a vote on him? Also, you talked down the possibility of scum trying for a no-lynch even while you attempt to diffuse the vote???

[Chip Butty]

Votecount 1.21

Ploben (4) - chip butty, ranger, mhsmith, karnos
Thor665 (5) - shadow, ploben, dunnstral, pantherpunt, BTD6 (L-2)
Ranger (2) - florestan, duppin
Dunnstral (1) - Thor

Not voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

Nothing in this post makes sense besides pointing out the deadline. Scum are not going for a NL since I have never seen that happen, one of the two wagons are going to be lynched and

if scum aren't active it means that both are town

. This whole logic feels like an easy out to a town Ploben flip, really really disliking Chip here.

Explain this. What do you mean by "if scum aren't active". Do you mean "not on either wagon"? Because the only three who are not on either wagon are you, duppin, and Thor/Kuroi. If not that, what do you mean? Could your strong resistance to the ploben wagon be distancing?

[Chip Butty]

To make that clearer, I meant "distancing from a ploben mislynch".

[karnos]

Towndriven wagons don't mean that they are on scum. Why is this being said so many times today, its such a useless argument. If that is so then we should just flip literally any of the wagon and then just do the simplest VCA and we will solve this game. Ugh this is why this game is such a mess because people keep saying these arguments that are so inherently wrong. You can't think that mafia are all hard aligning just because that is easier for you to do.

No, but a towndriven wagon on town is a tempting wagon for scum to jump on. Scum can be on a wagon without driving it. The fact that there is such resistance to the ploben lynch seems to indicate that probably none of the scum are jumping on it, which seems odd at this point UNLESS ploben is indeed scum.

[Chip Butty]

Sorry, haven't got round to doing my Ranger read yet, but it doesn't look like we've moved any closer to the end of Day 1 anyway. Also, zzzzzzzzzz

You should switch your vote to Dunnstrahl, a wagon changeup and claim will reinvigorate the game.

Don't overlike this. We're within 24 hours of Dayend, so (1) the game is going to get reinvigorated with a lynch very soon (Don't allow a no-lynch, please, Townguys) plus, prob an NK; and (2) I don't think there is time to get that wagon up in time, taking into account that we would want to get a claim, discuss it, etc.

Interesting that both you and Florestan are sounding out the possibility of diffusing the vote, especially in the light of his recent posts.

[Florestan]

I don't think either of the leading wagons are likely to flip scum. Thor more likely but I'm being greedy and want to play with Thor, so don't really want to lynch there honest.

[Chip Butty]

I haven't played against scum.Ranger yet, so I don't really have a feel for that.

If you're ever in the mood to get a feel for it, I updated my wiki either yesterday or the day before that, btw. Every scum game except Near Vanilla is listed there.

Thanks. I prob should check that out. I'm in an unprecedented 5 games atm, though, so maybe when we finally get to night phase.

@duppin: Still no Ranger read, but I know the clock is running down so I

will

try to get onto it before Dayend.

[Shadow_step]

Msmith you should switch to Thor as you said you'd vote him to avoid an NL

[Shadow_step]

I don't think either of the leading wagons are likely to flip scum. Thor more likely but I'm being greedy and want to play with Thor, so don't really want to lynch there honest.

WTF

If I was a day Vig I'd be killing you RIGHT NOW.

[mhsmith0]

Msmith you should switch to Thor as you said you'd vote him to avoid an NL

we have some time left. I will switch to him if I have to to avoid no lynch. I'll give it a few hours to see if there's any last minute interest in ploben. would still rather ploben.