Micro 609: DC Dual Universes uPick - Game over!

[SnarkySnowman]

VOTE: Ranger

Actually I think I'm willing to sheep this one.

[lilith2013]

What happened to scumreading me and joe?

[TellTaleHeart]

I'd happily send Snarky to hell.

[Clumsy]

I personally think it's Joe and Lilith. MoI and Ranger are clearly trying to solve this earth, and are completely off the table for me. You as well, clumsy.

VOTE: Ranger

Actually I think I'm willing to sheep this one.

What happened here? What's the transition Snarky?

[SnarkySnowman]

Doubting my earlier townread, mainly. It doesn't gut well, but :/

[Javajoe24]

Java, why the unvote?

Was a pressure vote, and missed that she already claimed. And I didn't want a quick hammer.

[Javajoe24]

VOTE: snarky

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: Snarky

[Clumsy]

Why are we suddenly jumping to Snarky after all the talk about Ranger?

[Ranger]

and she doesn't even seem to be trying to persuade people to join my wagon like I think she would if she were genuinely scumreading me.

Alternative theory: Ranger has been struggling with exhaustion for the last week or so with no idea why.
Well, until someone today gave me a tip that it might be zinc deficiency (it fits the symptoms and looking at foods with zinc in them I have literally

none

in my diet), but prior to now.

Why not SS? He is a confirmed gladiator which another town gladiator has been lynched? You think there are two town gladiators?

We know there are two gladiators already. This is, itself, an abnormality. Nobody puts duplicate roles in games. Not duplicate scum roles, not duplicate town roles, not one scum and one town role. They will put in

similar

roles. They will give, say, the mafia a roleblocker and the town a jailkeeper, or vice-versa. But they avoid exact duplicates.

And yet, here we are. We absolutely, 100%,

know

, beyond all shadow of a doubt, SnarkySnowman is a gladiator, and Kuroi was a gladiator. So no matter what, the mod has broken this principle. The mod has broken that rule. Gladiators are a role build to 1v1 a player. And with them both BEING gladiators, that means they, via counterclaim, are 1v1ing each other, just like yesterday, and had kuroi not been shot, he would have gladiated SnarkySnowman today. So...why would he design a scum role that is effectively committing suicide? Let's say SnarkySnowman used his power on a player

other than

Kuroi. Kuroi then claims gladiator. SnarkySnowman gets lynched. This is a real possibility. Why would he design the roles so that one scum should be dead no matter what by the end of D3?

I don't think he would. So yes. I think SnarkySnowman is town.

...Also, Clumsy's play has been sketchy as of recently, and lilith's my strongest scumread.

It also seems like Ranger is holding her theory for ransom for the Mass claim.

Explicitly so, yes.
I'm pretty sure I'm the only one not being an absolute moron here and has actually figured out what SirCakez designed.
I meant what I said. If we massclaim on THIS earth, just THIS earth, I can break the game for

both

earths. Not just this one.

I've already pointed out how she constructed this careful analysis of when and if certain power-roles should claim or not claim based on the situation and then turned around 180 to hop on a a mass-claim train when Java claimed VT and advocated it.

The important factor you're missing here is that

Java claimed VT

.
I wouldn't be advocating a massclaim if he had claimed a role.
He claimed Vanilla Townie. I have VERY GOOD REASON, after he made that claim, to be saying what I am saying. I mean it. Javajoe claimed the one and ONLY thing that would make me do a hard-180.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA til Monday AM with Father's Day weekend family duties.

Given Ranger's last post I want everyone to go back and look at her development of read on Clumsy yesterday and today. Notice that the shift to "Clumsy as scum" really only manifests around the time Clumsy starts questioning Ranger's conclusions and possible alignment. Ask yourself it that sort of development of read is more likely to come from Town or from Scum.

Then vote Ranger.

[Clumsy]

That's a good point. I go from this:

{Clumsy, Kuroi, Javajoe}
{TellTaleHeart}
{MagnaofIllusion}
{SnarkySnowman}
{lilith}
36.
VOTE: lilith.

To this:

For what it's worth: current theory places it as being a {lilith, Clumsy} scumteam.

Note that in every read from her before this, I was on the town side, often at the highest listing. What happened there Ranger?

[SnarkySnowman]

Actually wow, good point there Clumsy, I didn't notice that.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 3.6

Ranger (3) - lilith2013, MagnaOfIllusion, SnarkySnowman
SnarkySnowman (2) - Javajoe24, TellTaleHeart
lilith2013 (1) - Ranger

Not voting (1) - Clumsy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch someone.

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 20.

(expired on 2016-06-23 21:46:00) remain until day end

[Clumsy]

6 Days to decide. As I'm sitting here now, I can see

Ranger/TTH team

Ranger/Snarky team

--------------------------------------------------------------

Ranger/Magna team

Ranger/Lillith team

In order of likelihood, and the latter two would be because of bussing, but I don't really think it's likely. Basically I want to lynch Ranger. I do have a concern though, and that's Snarky. Snarky is in a bad place, if he's town or scum. If he's town, his role is likely to get him in trouble. If he's scum, he's in a corner. What's giving me pause is him pushing against Ranger. Could be distancing for whichever gets lynched though.

I think Joe is town regardless of any of these flips, I don't think there's any association to draw there. Tell me if you disagree.

I want thoughts on the above before I put intent down, and I really don't want anyone else claiming in the meantime, please.

[Ranger]

Notice that the shift to "Clumsy as scum" really only manifests around the time Clumsy starts questioning Ranger's conclusions and possible alignment.

Explicitly so, yes.

Actually wow, good point there Clumsy, I didn't notice that.

What Clumsy conveniently fails to mention is that there's two real-life weeks (well, almost), one FULL GAME DAY, Kuroi's flip, SnarkySnowman's gladiate, Javajoe's claim, AND 7 pages (in a micro) between those two posts.

Which.

You know.

Is actually...just about.

Everything

.

I do have a concern though, and that's Snarky. Snarky is in a bad place, if he's town or scum. If he's town, his role is likely to get him in trouble. If he's scum, he's in a corner.

This is literally scum, who knows I am town, and SnarkySnowman is town, and is setting up to push SnarkySnowman for when I flip town.

[Clumsy]

Whooaa, over-reaction much. Wow that turned quickly. Yeah, totally comfortable with lynching this now. Why are you so hard sold on Snarky being town anyway? Because...

Did you miss this ranger?

Did you miss me already having claimed, Javajoe? Intent implies there's something you're waiting for. The only thing there would be to wait on from me is my theory. Which, quite explicitly, I say should wait until after massclaim. Because I've already given everything else relevant. MagnaofIllusion is town this earth. I firmly believe you are also town. TellTaleHeart is confirmed town. Ergo, {SnarkySnowman, Clumsy, lilith} has the two scum. And my vote's on {Clumsy, lilith}.

Which is very recent by the way. Yeah, you think that it's me and Lilith, but you include Snarky down there and you're now talking about him as if he's confirmed town. I think YOU know he's town.

[Ranger]

Whooaa, over-reaction much.

That's not an overreaction.
That's a reaction, yes.
It is also a valid point.

You made the point, "these two statements contradict each other".
Ignoring the vast difference between them spacially, life-chronologically, game-chronologically, and informationally, that separates the two. New information came up.

Why are you so hard sold on Snarky being town anyway?

I'm not "hard sold" on Snarky being town. However,

We know there are two gladiators already. This is, itself, an abnormality. Nobody puts duplicate roles in games. Not duplicate scum roles, not duplicate town roles, not one scum and one town role. They will put in similar roles. They will give, say, the mafia a roleblocker and the town a jailkeeper, or vice-versa. But they avoid exact duplicates.

And yet, here we are. We absolutely, 100%, know, beyond all shadow of a doubt, SnarkySnowman is a gladiator, and Kuroi was a gladiator. So no matter what, the mod has broken this principle. The mod has broken that rule. Gladiators are a role build to 1v1 a player. And with them both BEING gladiators, that means they, via counterclaim, are 1v1ing each other, just like yesterday, and had kuroi not been shot, he would have gladiated SnarkySnowman today. So...why would he design a scum role that is effectively committing suicide? Let's say SnarkySnowman used his power on a player other than Kuroi. Kuroi then claims gladiator. SnarkySnowman gets lynched. This is a real possibility. Why would he design the roles so that one scum should be dead no matter what by the end of D3?

I don't think he would. So yes. I think SnarkySnowman is town.

^As indicated, I am in fact reading him as being town for this. You're acting like I haven't made posts that I...have made.

[Clumsy]

Then walk me through your thought process from one to the other please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh and now that it is over -

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65953

The main reason why I think Ranger's "Where is Earth 1 thread" is scum motived. Read how she tries to claim "Oh, I'm Town because I didn't know Xisi was Dead if I was scum I'd have known in my Mafia PT blah blah blah". It is part of the reason (although not the only part) that I scum-read her correctly that game.

Ranger as scum specifically makes these kind of plays to give the appearance of derping which people (including in this thread, I'm looking at you Clumsy) write off as more likely to come from Town.

[Javajoe24]

and she doesn't even seem to be trying to persuade people to join my wagon like I think she would if she were genuinely scumreading me.

Alternative theory: Ranger has been struggling with exhaustion for the last week or so with no idea why.
Well, until someone today gave me a tip that it might be zinc deficiency (it fits the symptoms and looking at foods with zinc in them I have literally

none

in my diet), but prior to now.

Why not SS? He is a confirmed gladiator which another town gladiator has been lynched? You think there are two town gladiators?

We know there are two gladiators already. This is, itself, an abnormality. Nobody puts duplicate roles in games. Not duplicate scum roles, not duplicate town roles, not one scum and one town role. They will put in

similar

roles. They will give, say, the mafia a roleblocker and the town a jailkeeper, or vice-versa. But they avoid exact duplicates.

And yet, here we are. We absolutely, 100%,

know

, beyond all shadow of a doubt, SnarkySnowman is a gladiator, and Kuroi was a gladiator. So no matter what, the mod has broken this principle. The mod has broken that rule. Gladiators are a role build to 1v1 a player. And with them both BEING gladiators, that means they, via counterclaim, are 1v1ing each other, just like yesterday, and had kuroi not been shot, he would have gladiated SnarkySnowman today. So...why would he design a scum role that is effectively committing suicide? Let's say SnarkySnowman used his power on a player

other than

Kuroi. Kuroi then claims gladiator. SnarkySnowman gets lynched. This is a real possibility. Why would he design the roles so that one scum should be dead no matter what by the end of D3?

I don't think he would. So yes. I think SnarkySnowman is town.

...Also, Clumsy's play has been sketchy as of recently, and lilith's my strongest scumread.

It also seems like Ranger is holding her theory for ransom for the Mass claim.

Explicitly so, yes.
I'm pretty sure I'm the only one not being an absolute moron here and has actually figured out what SirCakez designed.
I meant what I said. If we massclaim on THIS earth, just THIS earth, I can break the game for

both

earths. Not just this one.

I've already pointed out how she constructed this careful analysis of when and if certain power-roles should claim or not claim based on the situation and then turned around 180 to hop on a a mass-claim train when Java claimed VT and advocated it.

The important factor you're missing here is that

Java claimed VT

.
I wouldn't be advocating a massclaim if he had claimed a role.
He claimed Vanilla Townie. I have VERY GOOD REASON, after he made that claim, to be saying what I am saying. I mean it. Javajoe claimed the one and ONLY thing that would make me do a hard-180.

I am for a mass claim, but why not propose your theory anyways since it appears a mass claim is out of the question?

[lilith2013]

Votecount 3.6

Ranger (3) - lilith2013, MagnaOfIllusion, SnarkySnowman
SnarkySnowman (2) - Javajoe24, TellTaleHeart
lilith2013 (1) - Ranger

Not voting (1) - Clumsy

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch someone.

MagnaOfIllusion is V/LA until June 20.

(expired on 2016-06-23 21:46:00) remain until day end

Quick question, if I investigated someone and died that night, would I still receive results?

[TellTaleHeart]

Actually wow, good point there Clumsy, I didn't notice that.

You're not living past tonight. I look forward to your scumflip.

[SnarkySnowman]

It may take a few more games and a few more flips to get to that.

[Ranger]

MOD: V/LA for today, maybe tomorrow.

Don't have the time to post today, probably will have the time tomorrow but may not, circumstances depending.