Open 644: Stack the Deck - Game Over

[Thor665]

@Dunn - what's your case for why I'm scum?
Describe it - I'd love a laugh.

[mhsmith0]

mhsmith you're tunneledman, there was tons of resistance on Ranger too and the only reason we'd be able to get Thor is because Ranger/Ploben are both willing to vote him (I'd be bussing kuroislot too if I had them as my partner)

There was less resistance to Ranger's lynch, and said resistance came more from people I'm reading as town. Ploben's wagon has basically ALWAYS been there all day long, while other options rose and fell. It's been a bizarre board-wide resistance to putting him to L-1, much less lynching him. Despite the reams of evidence against him.

The case on Ploben is strong, the case on Ranger was not. So IMO the Ploben resistance is wierd, while the Ranger resistance isn't particularly odd.

[mhsmith0]

Seriously, the never ending resistance to the Dunnstral lynch is bizarre as hell.

Oh...wait...no, it's just everyone in this game is being really set in their tunnels, so, actually, no, it's not bizarre at all - well, it is, but not in the way you and Chip are trying to claim it as bizarre.

We don't NEED to see any particular flip at this stage, don't be silly.

Can you describe anyone's case on my slot?
Anyone at all?

OK, why do you think the ploben thing is a tunnel? Do you truly think the case sucks? Despite the reams of awkward interactions, garbage votes, occasional buddying, and overall insincerity? If you think ploben is a tunnel, you must have a town read on him. Why am I wrong here?

mhsmith don't act like there's no case on thor now just because he said so...

I'm not. I just think ploben case is far better.

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn - what's your case for why I'm scum?
Describe it - I'd love a laugh.

Read the thread.

Read Kuroi's iso if you'd like

I'm not going to talk to you if you're not going to read the thread.

[mhsmith0]

In post 639, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 623, KuroiXHF wrote:
Because I'm harshest on you, I know.


No, it's because I get the strong impression you aren't putting a lot of thought into these reads, just trying to look like you have a lot of definite opinions. Coming into a game with hundreds of posts like this requires, at the very least, that you read all the way through before posting your own reads. Yet you blunder into that 'ploben was obv joking' shit like it hasn't been discussed to death several times already. You should have taken your sweet time, built up reads based on a player's entire input for the game, not just grabbed a scattered post here or there and based your entire read on that. This rushed, superficial approach to reads looks either lazy or scummy, or both. whichever, it's not much use to Town.

I will go through my reads again because I did go through it quickly, but I know what I liked and I know what I didn't like. You were scummy from the beginning with scum reading people and coming off like a crazy person because someone made a joke about being an innocent child. That didn't ping me and I'm not even scum reading you for you being pinged. I'm pinged because you were death tunneling Ploben on that.

People joke during RVS, especially since Ploben didn't even claim Innocent Child. Did you not read the other words? Did you not read the rules?

Chip accuses him of being superficial and lazy, and kuroi responds with a superficial and lazy read of the ploben case from chip. It's a pretty garbage response.

In post 684, ploben wrote:
I think Chip just keeps pandering to everyone with these "slips" because he is being town read for them. I am reconsidering my 568, they are not looking townie or genuine. I think it's a continuation to muddy the waters. Either way, Chip's got some good interactions and associations we can look at in D2 after his flip.

VOTE: Chip Butty

OK. This I can get behind.
VOTE: Chip Butty

garbage vote

In post 881, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 879, KuroiXHF wrote:
Want to name one time I said Ranger was town there, brah?


You implied you had "better scumreads" than Ranger. So voting Ranger withoug pushing anyone else sure would be weird!

But then you quickly change to "What makes you think I'm not willing to vote Ranger?"

And then you're getting prepared to vote Ranger in your next line

It doesn't look like natural thoughts, it looks like poorly done scum distancing/bussing

I do, unless the reread changes my mind. But like I said, I had questions, and I'm not liking Ranger's responses.

So here.

VOTE: Ranger

And I didn't like your post over here. It sounds forced and it reeks of you twisting my word to fit the mold of your bias.

I'm about to leave for the night. If I respond, it won't be much and most likely mobile posting.

votes ranger while critizing dunn. weird.

UNVOTE:

If Ranger is scum, he is still more pro town than most of the town here. At least more competent.

garbage backing away from the mediocre vote

Strong Town: Pantherpunt, Karnos
Lean Town: Ploben, Dunnstral
Null: Duppin, Florestan, Scott
Lean Scum: Ranger, Shadowstep, BTD6_Maker
Strong Scum: ChipButty

For kicks...
this reads list is BAD. Like, why on most of these? Why chip as strongest wolf? Why ranger/shadow on next tier? Why panther on highest tier? Why ploben with a town lean? Why dunn with a town lean after criticizing him earlier?


None of this is slam dunk, but kuroi's ISO is overall pretty sketchy. Again, I would MUCH RATHER LYNCH PLOBEN, but I'd compromise on Thor if I had to.

[Dunnstral]

Again, I would MUCH RATHER LYNCH PLOBEN, but I'd compromise on Thor if I had to.

Understandable. I'd much rather lynch Ranger, but am trying to compromise on Thor, and don't actually want to get Ploben, but will vote him to avoid a no lynch

By the way

Thor are you not interested in a BTD quick lynch?

On the basis that he voted me and isn't a town read for me - sure.
I think Dunnstal is a better bet overall though, as he meets those criteria and combines them with a sketchy action and some lies/exaggerations in his reaction back on the push on him.

You can't think this is coming from town, right?

[mhsmith0]

one notable item: thor isn't swinging his vote to ploben for the sake of survival. definitely remember this if dunn/plob is t/w (although I guess points to thor if it's dunn w plob t somehow)

[mhsmith0]

By the way

In post 1713, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1712, Florestan wrote:
Thor are you not interested in a BTD quick lynch?

On the basis that he voted me and isn't a town read for me - sure.
I think Dunnstal is a better bet overall though, as he meets those criteria and combines them with a sketchy action and some lies/exaggerations in his reaction back on the push on him.

You can't think this is coming from town, right?

It might. IMO it's reachy, but it's not obvioulsy inconsistent with a town perspective.

[Ranger]

MOD: V/LA for today, maybe tomorrow.

Don't have the time to post today, probably will have the time tomorrow but may not, circumstances depending.

[mhsmith0]

Are people going to be back here at some point before EOD?

[Dunnstral]

I'm here

[mhsmith0]

Be nice if Thor and ploben and the two people off wagon came around too. It's shitty if we end up having to lynch w/o a claim

[Dunnstral]

Ploben softed as not PR by saying his lynch would give information, Thor would need to claim

[Persivul]

Votecount 1.23

Ploben (5) - chip butty, ranger, mhsmith, karnos, florestan (L-2)
Thor665 (5) - shadow, ploben, dunnstral, pantherpunt, BTD6 (L-2)
Ranger (1) - duppin
Dunnstral (1) - Thor

Not voting (0) -

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

(expired on 2016-06-19 07:30:00) remain until day end

[Thor665]

OK, why do you think the ploben thing is a tunnel? Do you truly think the case sucks?

I addressed your case already - I think it is an okayish Day 1 case colored by a lot of fluff and calling things scummy that aren't. I already said this.

Despite the reams of awkward interactions, garbage votes, occasional buddying, and overall insincerity? If you think ploben is a tunnel, you must have a town read on him. Why am I wrong here?

There are multiple people guilty of multiple cases of garbage votes, lying, and awkward interactions. I could easily apply all of those to Dunn right now if that would excite you - but I don't think your goal is to widen your eyes in that regard.

I'm not. I just think ploben case is far better.

There isn't a Thor case.
There's barely a Plob case.

I'm looking at what you described on him and it's all weak as hell, and you must know this. Do you actually think only scum garbage vote and say crazy things? Dear lord I wish that was true. You have applied zero motivation to him - a glance at his play shows he's a weak player, so proving that does nothing. You get that, yeah?

Read the thread.

Read Kuroi's iso if you'd like

I'm not going to talk to you if you're not going to read the thread.

Is it impossible for you to sum up your case in 1-3 sentences and the only way to describe it is to read 60+ pages?
Go ahead, keep lying to me.
I'll be here voting you.

You can't think this is coming from town, right?

How is it not coming from town?
You should explain that.

[Thor665]

Ploben softed as not PR by saying his lynch would give information, Thor would need to claim

I'll claim when I'm at L-1 with a hammer intent.

[Dunnstral]

Hopefully duppin gets on before deadline and votes something relevant

[Persivul]

BTD6 has been prodded

[Dunnstral]

I highly prefer a Thor lynch, just to reiterate.

[mhsmith0]

@thor: I HAVE applied motivation to ploben. It goes beyond "weak player" and gets to active pro-wolf behaviors. Buddying, dishonest votes, "please please make this wagon on me go away" etc. that's not mislynch bait, that's just a wolf.

Given that there appears to be no appetite for a Dunn wagon, where else are you willing to compromise? Any other reads you'd like to share?

[Thor665]

I have shared a number of reads already - where do you feel my comments are lacking?

I'm currently left looking at a lynch on a player I soft town read and on myself, pardon me all to hell for not leaping at either.

I've been hard pushing for a while and have been met with utter lethargy - people are very set in their reads this game to a comical level considering the information available to them and inability to even describe the cases in any clear way. You're acting like your case is 'all that' and it's actually kind of funny, because though I think it's a fine Day 1 case and even the best case I've seen anyone else manage to describe, even you are utterly blind to the awareness of its actual strength in relation to the other wagons. You also are being painfully blind to the reality of my wagon and, if town, so is Dunn - he is complaining that I have a willingness to compromise onto BTD6 - while he literally is doing the same thing as regards me/Plob, and at least I'm applying valid scum motivation to his move, and yet he's acting like my action makes no sense from town. (hint: that is showing some serious issues in how he's processing - thus, likely scum).

At this stage, I *might* if I feel super abstract, help lynch Plob, but I would give myself equal odds to aid a no lynch out of mild bemusement of how people would react.
I can't get any other compromise going at all, so that's where I'm at.
WHere do you think I should be at?

[Thor665]

I mean, why are you even asking me about a compromise?
Like - what compromise is out there for me?
This is a weird question.

[mhsmith0]

I mean, why are you even asking me about a compromise?
Like - what compromise is out there for me?
This is a weird question.

It just seems weird that you're sitting on a Dunn wagon that's going nowhere instead of either hopping on ploben or trying something different. I saw you had mild town reads on me and duppin, obviously a wolf read on Dunn, and I'm not sure what your other opinions are. You seem not super high on Panther but I don't know if that's just null or worse.

Ps can you go into your soft town read of ploben? I see your read on him as "he's bad"; why is he "bad" in a way that indicates town instead of wolf? If you can make a serious case for him as town I'll listen, but it needs to be a serious case. "I soft town read him" won't cut it. What has ploben done to deserve ANY kind of town read, soft or not?

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I'm not unvoting Thor today. If we nolynch because people literally won't get on and vote then tough luck

To me Thor is obvious and I'm seeing the TMI read on Ploben that was being talked about earlier

[mhsmith0]

I mean you say about my ploben case "I think it's a fine Day 1 case and even the best case I've seen anyone else manage to describe"... But you don't want on it, and have a soft town read on him. I'd like to see how those two things hang together in your mind.