Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[innocentvillager]

Post post post guys scum are going to autowin srs.

[Music and Mail]

Oy.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

This slot needs to be forced to produce content.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Oy.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

This slot needs to be forced to produce content.

Oy this slot needs to be forced to eat rope

[Touka]

Trying to lynch Alpaca for not posting when literally no one is providing content is nice.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'd hate to replace out, but this game is getting really aggravating.

[BTD6_maker]

Literally no one else? It seems everyone but Alpaca and Sick are producing some content. More would be good, though.

[BTD6_maker]

I can understand your point now. Six hours have passed and nothing at all has happened. I'm not a fan of hyper-active games where it's a struggle to keep up but this is the other extreme.

[Quaroath]

Sadly, I can't force activity beyond prodding people.

Currently Ranger and Kappy are VLA.

mhsmith0 replaces SickofIt1138

[mhsmith0]

Howdy everyone!

[Quaroath]

Vote count 2.4

Music and Mail - (1) Touka
Ranger - (3) Ranger, BTD6_maker, Kappy
AlpacaAlpaca - (1) Music and Mail

Not Voting - (3) AlpacaAlpaca, drmyshottyizsik, mhsmith0

With 8 eligible to vote, is takes 5 to lynch.

I am adding 3 days to the deadline due to the time finding the replacement took.
New Deadline is @ 10pm PST on 6/28

[Music and Mail]

Yaassss. This is a good replacement.

-- Mail

[mhsmith0]

Yaassss. This is a good replacement.

-- Mail

[mhsmith0]

Trying to lynch Alpaca for not posting when literally no one is providing content is nice.

Alpaca literally has not voted since his one RVS vote. That's pretty terrible. I'm also not sure why his RVS vote was necessarily town; 28 reads pretty awkwardly to me.

PS Anyone want to guess why I really don't like Ranger's 134?

[mhsmith0]

But, I have to be completely honest here.

I lied.

I wasn't 100% sure you were scum at all.

I was actually less sure about you than I was on Music and Mail! Especially with your later posting.

I was kinda afraid I'd be getting lynched tomorrow, and then we'd be in D3 with no assured scum leads, my credibility shot, and nothing to go on.

Interesting how this comes from someone WHO WAS VOTING IV ON DAY ONE. Literally she was voting IV based on explicitly falsely stated reasons (the "100% sure" bit). So basically, rather than make any true effort to lynch her "greater" read (M&M) on day one, or try and force a "lynch that slot or lynch me" debate, she "settled" for IV, while explicitly maintaining at the time that IV was the greater read. It's the epitome of trying to line up lynches, and it's almost impossible to see this coming from an actual town perspective.

Also, note that last bit. Ranger was afraid of getting lynched D2, and yet she's currently voting herself. Why is that? Town is interested in finding the mafia; why in that context even CARE about whether you get to "survive" as a stump? Essentially, town has three mislynches before they lose the game (MAYBE four if we lynch "doused" trees or get lucky with firefighter actions). The value in finding actual mafia on day two DWARFS the value of getting to hang around post lynch. So why does town!Ranger go down this route? I really struggle to see it. Wolf!Ranger, on the other hand, can use the self-vote as a ruse to WIFOM and confuse the town while looking like she's acting from a pro-town mindset.

I'll let Ranger speak to her actions, and I don't want to give anyone the chance to lolhammer... but I feel like she's where my vote belongs today. Alpaca is also in my lynch range right now, and I'm willing to talk about Touka.

[mhsmith0]

So here's the final day one votes:

Innocentvillager

– (5) drmyshottyizsik, Ranger, Alexcellent, Kappy, BTD6_maker
35 - naked RVS vote, never goes anywhere else on day 1 (though he does actively push on IV throughout day 1)
117 - overreaction to IV's post
137 - weird hop onto IV - looking at 144 and 146, I'm really not sure why he took the active step to hop from the Ranger wagon onto the IV one, especially since 146 was a response to a post made AFTER his wagon switch.
186 - Kappy may be an OK vote there
211 - disclaiming responsibility for the IV vote as it happened

BTD6_maker – (2) AlpacaAlpaca, Music and Mail
28 - weirdly worded RVS vote, never goes anywhere else on day 1
195 - not an amazing vote, but I can see it as a plausible town process

Music and Mail - (1) KickAssAndGiggle
95 - basically an RVS vote. Unlike some other votes, he never posts again, so it's at least somewhat explainable to hold on to it.

drmyshottyizsik - (1)

innocentvillager

*irrelevant for sorting IV, we already know IV is town after the flip

Thoughts:
1) There's enough garbage votes on the main D1 lynch wagon that there basically HAS to be at least one wolf there (so I can mentally toss out Alpaca/M&M as a reasonably plausible team)

2) If there's one on, one off, I'd think the off would be Alpaca. OTOH, that wagon sucked enough that it could pretty realistically have been two wolves on.

3) If I'm looking for especially bad/suspicious day one final votes, I'm thinking inside {Ranger, Alex->Touka, BTD6, Alpaca}. Which, shock of shocks, is basically my lynch pool (though I'm willing to MAYBE consider the idea that BTD6's post hammer reaction was reasonably townie enough to push him off the shit list... except his votes continue to be sufficiently garbage for me to want him lynched too)

[mhsmith0]

If you're 100% scum, would you agree to get lynched tomorrow when you're wrong about me?

Of course you would. After all, there is no chance involved in 100% scum, right?

Please lynch Ranger immediately on D2 if I happen to get lynched kthxbai

You realise if you're lynched as town, you're not actually out of the game, you just lose your vote, right? This doesn't feel like it's coming from a tree's perspective.

Actually, I'd like to emphasize how bad this post is. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE STILL IN THE GAME. IT MATTERS A LOT IF TOWN WASTES A MISLYNCH ON YOU. IV's attitude of REALLY not wanting to get mislynched, and trying to assign blame for his mislynch if it goes through, is absolutely healthy and pro-town.

I almost want to go through the thread and see where I can find evidence of people breeding apathy towards mislynches anywhere (I'm sure I've seen it pop up at times), because that's just flagrantly anti-town. MISLYNCHES ARE BAD. REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD. "Oh, well at least you were only stumped" is gross. We're not here to play "who gets to be stumped instead of burned", we're here to find the two mafia and lynch them. Detracting from the meaning and usefulness of lynching and voting data is bullshit. We have two chances to screw up, and MAYBE we'll end up with a third screwup that keeps the game alive if we get kinda lucky. We need to actually take this seriously.

[mhsmith0]

If for some ungodly reason I read them wrong and they're town, then they can still scumhunt as invincible town who cannot be nightkilled and therefore cannot be silenced.

Win-win as far as I can tell.
Ergo, we're lynching Music and Mail no matter what.

Yep, here's the first "breeding apathy towards the consequences of mislynching" post that I found. SHOCKING that it came from Ranger

[innocentvillager]

I like the new guy

Can't tell what my read on him is yet though.

[mhsmith0]

I like the new guy

Can't tell what my read on him is yet though.

Smith is awesome. The rest is details

[innocentvillager]

Can we like brainstorm ways to get rid of this apathy? I'm sure there are ways.

[mhsmith0]

Well I could slap an L-1 on Ranger, that'd at least make things a bit more exciting. I'd still rather hear her defense first though. Hopefully the less active players start to play more; lurking is LAME, as either alignment.

[Ranger]

yay everyone self vote for /in-stant town cred

I already explained my reasons.
One, almost everyone is suspicious of me.
Two, I can continue to talk after I'm lynched.
Three, I'm having difficulty getting good reads this game.
Four, I promised I would to innocentvillager yesterday.

So I'll move my vote if I can actually get something productive done. Strong feelings, rather than weak or paranoid ones.

[mhsmith0]

BTD and M&M seem scummy to me
I town read Touka
null-town on Ranger, Kappy
null on Shotty and Sicko

Why on all of these? In particular your town read of Touka and wolf read of M&M. Also not sure why you're null-town on Ranger, that'd be helpful too.

[mhsmith0]

yay everyone self vote for /in-stant town cred

I already explained my reasons.
One, almost everyone is suspicious of me.
Two, I can continue to talk after I'm lynched.
Three, I'm having difficulty getting good reads this game.
Four, I promised I would to innocentvillager yesterday.

So I'll move my vote if I can actually get something productive done. Strong feelings, rather than weak or paranoid ones.

Yeah I don't buy this as a real town process, especially given the doubling down. No townie WANTS to get lynched. This seems WAY likelier to be a fake town process designed to create confusion and "Ranger wouldn't do this if she was mafia" artificial town reads.
VOTE: Ranger

L-1

[Touka]

{Ranger, Smith, M&M} this wins us the game