Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[mhsmith0]

I hold RC to a different standard: perpetual scumreads, always anti-Town, and never of any help whatsoever. See Newbies 1700 and 1708 for why.

And what do you think of the back and forth between me and ranger?

[BTD6_maker]

You're currently a scumread, about the same as Ranger. However, a Ranger/Mhsmith team is rather unlikely.

[mhsmith0]

You're currently a scumread, about the same as Ranger. However, a Ranger/Mhsmith team is rather unlikely.

Do you have opinions on the specific things that were said? Reasons why you have us as scum reads? Reasons why you're presuming we're not just doing theater?

[AlpacaAlpaca]

You die if you get lynched.

In a normal game, yes.
But this mechanic is basically a nerfed version of the shortnight/longnight mechanic.
In that I don't actually die.
I can still contribute.

And from my wagon, scumhunt.

Yes but from what he is saying he just doesn't want to waste a lynch on a town since that means that scum basically get one extra turn to prime something for free, so if you know you are town you shouldn't want to mislynch yourself.
~~~~~~~~~~~
Also M&M do you always make posts like these since they, in my opinion detract from your overall towniness.

Spoiler:

Autolynching Ranger tomorrow for this.

fuck yourselves.

If we get lynched here I'm not posting anything besides votes on Ranger for the duration of the game.

Stop being bad and vote Touka.

-- Mail

This town is so bad that at this point my main priority is lynching the people who are pissing me off so they don't win if they're scum rather than lynching scum.

VOTE: Drmyshottyszik

This is both.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Trying to lynch Alpaca for not posting when literally no one is providing content is nice.

Alpaca literally has not voted since his one RVS vote. That's pretty terrible. I'm also not sure why his RVS vote was necessarily town; 28 reads pretty awkwardly to me.

PS Anyone want to guess why I really don't like Ranger's 134?

In general I don't actually vote until I am sure of somebody, I am not super big on pressure votes, though apparently I have to learn since voting for someone you aren't sure of is considered towny.
~~~~~~~~~~~

BTD and M&M seem scummy to me
I town read Touka
null-town on Ranger, Kappy
null on Shotty and Sicko

Why on all of these? In particular your town read of Touka and wolf read of M&M. Also not sure why you're null-town on Ranger, that'd be helpful too.

I shall go through in order
BTD (scum) - I don't like post 57 where he votes his highest town read, I mean how about voting your top scum read? His whole stance on lynching Ranger and how it will be beneficial either way annoys me, If he was pusshing Ranger as scum I wouldn't have a problem but than he says

...a lynch on town Ranger is not too bad...

M&M (scum) - As mentioned above I really don't like some of their posts where they just seem fed up with the game and just say Ranger or nothing. Basically for the beginning of the game they only try and attack Ranger while labelling IV as obvtown and their reasons for that in post 160 I didn't see as giving IV an obvtown status. Later he mentions that he scum reads BTD but doesn't really pursue it and is right back on Ranger and than later mentions he town reads BTD after a re ISO. Than Touka seemingly distracts him from Ranger which is surprising but I don't like that he is scum reading Touka for being Beeboy I mean she is playing on an alt presumably so she can play differently and not get insta scum read for it. Than there is a terrible vote on Shotty and an understandable vote on myself. Overall I am not seeing a town mindset here more of just death tunnelling some of the people who attack him.

Touka (town) - I town read the person who Touka replaced in post 281 and I liked Touka's intro analysis of everything since she actually took the time to read the whole game. I agree mostly with her most recent reads except that I am still on the fence about Smith.

Ranger (nulltown) - I don't like that she held back on explanations earlier but she did say that if it came to a point where she had to explain to save one of her town reads she would be more than willing, but at that point in the game and considering there isn't much posting going on it would have been helpful. Her tunneling of M&M was basically entirely for meta reasons at the beggeing but under pressure M&M seemed much more scummy than they were before. I was honestly surprised that IV flipped town however I can't say for sure say whether its becaue Ranger is scum trying to push mislynched or is she was just wrong and I have a gut feeling it was the latter so until former notice I am null reading with a little side of town here.

Kappy (nulltown) - Not too sure what to think of Kappy since a lot of his posts are not related to anything though in general he seems to be hunting for information to use to identify scum.

Shotty (null-) - He doesn't explain a lot and he doesn't seem to anything that benefits town, a town of fluff. He also jumps around a lot which kind of confuses me like in post 351, and 374 he says he is sucm reading Touka than in post 385 he is all of a sudden town reading Touka. I am leaning more scum in this slot but still nullish for now.

Sicko/Smith (null+) - The 2 slots before Smith were useless so I had him labelled as null and now I am going to need a little more time to read you fully however, right now I agree with a quality amount of what you have written and you asking good questions. I am leaning a town read on you but that is pending further notice.

[Music and Mail]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

[AlpacaAlpaca]

You die if you get lynched.

In a normal game, yes.
But this mechanic is basically a nerfed version of the shortnight/longnight mechanic.
In that I don't actually die.
I can still contribute.

And from my wagon, scumhunt.

If you're town, eating a lynch just because you're not feeling confident in your reads or so the town can "move on" or whatever is TERRIBLE play.

Why?

Again.

In a normal game, sure, that goes without saying.

But in this game. When you live on after being lynched. Why is it terrible play to get lynched? Just because it's not a lynch on scum? Sure, that makes it not the ideal play. Ideal play is always lynching scum. But the mechanic exists for good reason. Getting lynched is a viable play. Not optimal, but viable.

that's basically OMGUS logic, dressed up a bit.

A scum player would say this, yes.
But a town player should be able to recognize that there's a difference between calling a player a scum for voting them (omgus) and calling a player scum for the way they voted. I did the latter. You're not scum because you're voting me. It could be any player you voted and I'd say the same thing. You're scum because you're not playing to anything even remotely resembling your towngame.

Sure. And right now the most likely answer is that you're mafia pulling a ploy.

No, I mean the mhsmith that is town I know will post all angles, IN THREAD, on all players. All of them. And with a very low level of confidence, weakly select the ones he thinks are more likely to be true.

This blind push of near-absolute certainty from you? Absolutely not characteristic of your towngame.

wrt IV, the ESSENTIAL problem is that you yourself stated that you had a stronger read on M&M. So why not try and build the wagon there?

You keep on pushing this point, yet this continues to ignore what I already said. innocentvillager was a stronger scumread originally. Ergo, I pushed innocentvillager. When this stopped being true, I knew I was second-guessing myself, and through a combination of pride and stubbornness, refused to back down off of that paranoia.

"I hate scumreading a player and then backing down from it even more"

I misspoke; that sentence is incomplete. It was meant to say that I hate scumreading a player

correctly

and then backing down from it. This is obvious enough. When you're right about a read, but then through paranoia, doubt it enough to reverse it, how do YOU feel? Universally, the answer is "very bad". That's what I was referring to. As much as I hate being wrong, being

right

and then reversing my read to be wrong is much, much worse.

And now that you're in a position where you're in actual danger of that "offer" getting cashed anyway, you're pushing elsewhere.

I don't see myself escaping the lynch. I do, however, intend to push you.

And if Music and Mail calls me terrible to be ignored after I flip, they're confirmed scum for it, especially since it's not them that I'm pushing. It's you.

I don't care if I live or die. I expect to die. I'd definitely die if a townread was in any danger of being lynched. But given the choice between contributing to my own lynch, or making a statement about my strong scumread...I'm going to go for the latter.

Want to guess at what I hated about 134?

Nope! I'm looking forward to whatever reason you pose for hating it, and if you intend to lynch me, you WILL post it before I get lynched, because you're going to be held accountable for it and if you don't I swear to god I'll spam the thread until you are lynched.

PS Alpaca's your #2 team read on gut alone?

Tied for number one (tiers are equal), but otherwise, correct.

Your read on Ranger feels opportunistic and your push on Alpacas reads as meh.
Also your slots past players probably all replaced out for a reason and the original owner of your slot made some pretty bad votes.
You are also defending M&M for what appears to be no reason.

This is all true.

You must be insanely confident in a smith/M&M mafia team then, since you're also in his top three.

I have no right to use the term insanely confident to describe my reads given D1.

Still, for lack of a better term: insanely confident on you, yes. Confident on M&M, no. They're a scumread, but it's mostly because "I don't have any better ideas and I'm reviewing my past read and thinking it might hold merit". Still, that Touka sees the two players on the bottom of my reads as scum, when I see them as scum, is a promising sign especially knowing it's beeboy behind the wheel.

I don't think "easy target" really describes ranger particularly well.

To the contrary.

I have almost as many mislynches in my game history as I do nightkills.

And here's ranger taking that crappy read and considering a sheep of it.

No, that was because Touka was revealed to be beeboy.
I hold beeboy to basically the same standard I hold RadiantCowbells: the absolute top tier of scumhunters, the players I easily synch with when we share alignments, the players who I see as competent, and while never perfect, strong players with strong pushes.

And the beeboy of this game, as Touka, was playing in a really strange manner. Touka's play, as a person, looked town. Touka's play, knowing it was beeboy, looked strange.

Autolynching Ranger tomorrow for this.

fuck yourselves.

If we get lynched here I'm not posting anything besides votes on Ranger for the duration of the game.

Stop being bad and vote Touka.

-- Mail

This town is so bad that at this point my main priority is lynching the people who are pissing me off so they don't win if they're scum rather than lynching scum.

VOTE: Drmyshottyszik

This is both.

Oy.

VOTE: AlpacaAlpaca

This slot needs to be forced to produce content.

Oy this slot needs to be forced to eat rope

Trying to lynch Alpaca for not posting when literally no one is providing content is nice.

Alpaca literally has not voted since his one RVS vote. That's pretty terrible. I'm also not sure why his RVS vote was necessarily town; 28 reads pretty awkwardly to me.

PS Anyone want to guess why I really don't like Ranger's 134?

BTD and M&M seem scummy to me
I town read Touka
null-town on Ranger, Kappy
null on Shotty and Sicko

Why on all of these? In particular your town read of Touka and wolf read of M&M. Also not sure why you're null-town on Ranger, that'd be helpful too.

I primarily want a Music and Mail lynch but I am fine with lynching Ranger. With this setup a lynch on scum Ranger is no doubt good but a lynch on town Ranger is not too bad. Ranger will most probably survive the rest of the game (unless she was primed N1) and can input her reads.

Besides, she promised.

I was actually V/LA earlier and had no time Saturday or sunday due to family matters but no way I can prove it. So basically the only way I wouldn't have seen scummy posting something was if I waited until I was prodded than joined in? Cause how I read that is once I am voted and asked to post more, posting more makes me scummy.

[AlpacaAlpaca]

and just ignore all of those quotes since I apparently still don't know how this quote system works

[mhsmith0]

@alpaca: if you're not sure, then you need to do the work to develop a read. Part of that work is generally considered to be voting on your best read.

In general I don't actually vote until I am sure of somebody, I am not super big on pressure votes, though apparently I have to learn since voting for someone you aren't sure of is considered towny.

Doing work to solve the game is considered towny. Not doing work to solve the game is not considered towny. If you're town, you're not giving us the data we need in order to read you.

[mhsmith0]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

Maybe. Lurking may simply be his play style though (and if THAT is the case hopefully I can help cure him of that). I want a better read on him than "lurker". Btd6 as well.

[Touka]

mhsmith and M&M's reads just feel like a bunch of confirmation bias.

[Touka]

But it isn't even good confirmation bias it is like they are trying to seek a lynch not actually find a scum lynch.

[mhsmith0]

So it's... Fake confirmation bias then? I'm not really sure where you're going w this tbh.

[Music and Mail]

I really wish I wasn't playing this game.

Touka stop being awful.

[Music and Mail]

Let's make a deal.

We get lynched today but everyone just lynches who we say to for the remainder of the game.

Otherwise I'm done making any effort to cooperate with you guys

[Touka]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

If this isn't confirmation bias I don't know what is.

[Music and Mail]

You don't know what is, thanks.

[mhsmith0]

Let's make a deal.

We get lynched today but everyone just lynches who we say to for the remainder of the game.

Otherwise I'm done making any effort to cooperate with you guys

I decline this deal. I'd like to actually scum hunt.

[mhsmith0]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

If this isn't confirmation bias I don't know what is.

How exactly is that confirmation bias?

[Touka]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

If this isn't confirmation bias I don't know what is.

How exactly is that confirmation bias?

He ignored the entire post to come to the conclusion that Alpaca is only posting because he was under pressure.

[Touka]

Asks someone to post

If he doesn't post he is scum
If he posts he is still scum

[Music and Mail]

Clearly that's what happened.

No, if he posts and I don't townread his post he's still scum.

[Touka]

Ok maybe this miscommunication wouldn't happen if you told me what part of the post you didn't like.

[Music and Mail]

If I didn't know you were Beeboy and you didn't just jump on me in this terrible way I'd consider it.

[mhsmith0]

Really think Alpaca was scum who was consciously lurking.

Really don't like them jumping in and finally producing comment when we voted them.

I want them lynched today.

If this isn't confirmation bias I don't know what is.

How exactly is that confirmation bias?

He ignored the entire post to come to the conclusion that Alpaca is only posting because he was under pressure.

Fwiw that appears to be the most thoughtful post alpaca made all game. I'm not convinced that m&m is right about him only doing it due to pressure, but it's a plausible interpretation.

[Touka]

If I didn't know you were Beeboy and you didn't just jump on me in this terrible way I'd consider it.

It's fine it just makes it easier to ignore your read if you don't bother explaining it.