New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[Nosferatu]

Nosferatu, I'd love to see a response to my accusations against you. (I know that you briefly responded to the Anen thing, but there's way more than that.)

Also you giving me some "town points" for having "good reads" when you clearly didn't read my post until Zakk mentioned it bothers me, but w/e.

I mean sure but there's not much to talk about atm.

regarding my switch from copper to seth, I felt more confident in my own observation skills than sheeping titus's in this case, copper was looking at bit more townie to me on a first glance.

I posted what I believe to be substantial posting about anon (my responses to his case on me), but yeah I didn't vote him at the time. Why? The closest answer I can give you is partially self-doubt and partially just "I dun wanna".

One thing I don't like here is that there are "choice things" concerning my interactions with anen but you only mention one. At the moment I can't think of any problems I see in this case other than like before with anen it seems easy to make. But don't worry I'll find more

So, your response to me saying "I think that you were bussing Anen for town-cred" is to say "Nah, I wouldn't do that!", which really doesn't help me. I don't think I need to explain the benefits of bussing but not committing to the bus like you did.

Do you see how you're accusing me of busing anen for towncred? And how you were suspicious of me before the anen flip? Do you see how the choice in bus targeting here nullifies the point of the bus in the first place? QED.

No, because the chance that someone (like me) may have suspected you of bussing your partner before your partner flipped does not in any way diminish the potential benefits of bussing.

I swear my point went over your head so fast, so high; you looking up and trying to make sense of it made your nose bleed right onto your keyboard and typed this post. The idea is that with the number of people suspecting me and the small chance of anyone changing their read because of the way I approached anen's wagon makes busing a waste of two scum members.

[Nosferatu]

although I do feel like your case is just trying to focus on the stuff anen didn't say...

[Liger_Zero]

Why is everyone saying "one person left in the neighborhood is scum" yet nobody is voting either of us?
If what ircher says about not wanting anyone in the neighborhood around (Which makes no sense), why not try to force a 1v1?

I am fine doing a 1v1, but I am wondering why nobody else is pushing it?
I am pretty much doing this now because I don't trust my reads. I am doing this in service to copper.

VOTE: Magnaofillusion

[Liger_Zero]

3. Liger - The worse of the 2 in the neighborhood
4. Zakk - Healthy paranoia here
5. Pmatt - Good start, but became a lurksaxk
6. Egg - Being useless
7. Nahdia - AtE; Lousy misrep of me today
8. Titus - Healthy paranoia here; don't want to be stuck in LyLo with her
9. Cy - lynch all lurkers
10. Nos - Don't take chances
11. Magna - Don't want the neighborhood in LyLo either for WIFOm

This doesn't make any sense I want to point out.
First of all the first thing he says about me implies that one of the two remaining have to be scum.
Then 11 says don't want any neighborhood around for "WIFOM"? I don't think he knows what he is talking about. WIFOM is nowhere applied in this situation, neighborhoods were created by mod...

[Liger_Zero]

I just think the dead players had to be right about something, even though I feel like that isn't the right conclusion on Magna. I hate this, but dead players don't die because they have terrible reads usually. Its cause of one of these:
1) Good reads
2) Strong player
3) They think he is a power role.

For the record, both me and copper claimed power roles (Not specific role), I think we both had same game plan in mind. We pretend we have power roles, then if one of us dies, then the others are on more scrutiny. Now we didn't die that night. So I thought "maybe this thing is all town or scum called our bluff". So we went in next night, copper is heavy calling magna scum and vice versa. I said we should let cooler heads prevail and just go into discussion on other things (I didn't provide much but I didn't really have much thoughts like they did).

So I am thinking that magna is either scum or this was scum framing attempt? Thats my thoughts.
I am wondering why magna never commented on the power role stuff by copper? Not sure....

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: zakk
that is a scum move man

not really. i'm sure i know what you're thinking

if you're town you're wrong and if you're scum then well, lol, k then

asking the 11 shot vig question serves no purpose other than for scum to know who to kill at night.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’ll finish up my ISOs with zakk who I put off til last due to his ISO being a nightmare of spam but the following needs addressed immediately …

For the record, both me and copper claimed power roles (Not specific role), I think we both had same game plan in mind. We pretend we have power roles, then if one of us dies, then the others are on more scrutiny. Now we didn't die that night. So I thought "maybe this thing is all town or scum called our bluff". So we went in next night, copper is heavy calling magna scum and vice versa. I said we should let cooler heads prevail and just go into discussion on other things (I didn't provide much but I didn't really have much thoughts like they did).

So I am thinking that magna is either scum or this was scum framing attempt? Thats my thoughts.
I am wondering why magna never commented on the power role stuff by copper? Not sure....

No, Copper did not. He specifically claimed the opposite. Post 7 if the neighborhood Copper specifically says he is a plain Vanilla Neighbor – he says “I would flip like Pers did”. So Copper did not fake-claim a PR in the Neighborhood.

Why are you saying he did?

Also now that Liger has outed that his PR claim in the Hood is fake – that is the only reason I was Town reading him. His contributions in the Hood have been pretty barren and his ISO shows a complete lack of scum-hunting. But his willingness to claim in the Hood Night 1 (even if it was a generic “I’m a PR”) I didn’t expect to come from scum. Now that he’s said it was a gambit that makes it a complete Null to me.

[Lowell]

I weirdly like 3352. and am getting a strong newbtown read from liger. I've also been mostly satisfied with matt's recent posts. I appreciate his making a new case--always helpful, and reads town.

Zach's "let's rank everyone" idea is bad. There's a reason it's scummy to set up multiple lynches. Setting up 11 lynches? more bad.

I also fully agree with Titus' commentary on nos' list being just an exercise in who can most easily be lynched.

My current scumlist, in some order:

egg, nos, maga

[Lowell]

My reservation about this list is that they're all playing the same way: experienced players basically lurking around not leading the action, which seems unlikely they'd all choose to do at once. Still, on balance, this is a good place to look. My kingdom for another vig shot.

[Nosferatu]

VOTE: zakk
that is a scum move man

not really. i'm sure i know what you're thinking

if you're town you're wrong and if you're scum then well, lol, k then

asking the 11 shot vig question serves no purpose other than for scum to know who to kill at night.

I had similar logic in the 4rd fortnight when I thought gorkington was scum but apparently people doing this shit is "promoting discussion" and townies do it often, idk why.

[Nosferatu]

*3rd

[Ircher]

also

@zakk: famaram why on earth do you want cy in lylo? Do you want to lose?

As for the vig thing I'm kinda looking:

Titus - probably scum
Shaziro - if titus is town probably scum
Liger_zero - PoE from neighborhood makes probable scum
Egg - is perpetually catching up and I don't like that.
projectmatt - probably scum or bad. The fact that bad is an option makes him lower.
Ircher - I'm on the fence.
cytheflyguy - might be lurkerscum
drmyshottyizsik - probably town but paranoia
Lowell - might be sk, or 2-shot strongman but probably not
MagnaofIllusion - probably town
zakk - probably town
Nahdia - probably town

Your ranked readslist is looking who is easy to lynch

If I was scum trying to strongarm mislynches, the list would also be in a different order. Shotty would be higher, ircher would be higher, along with cy and lowell, and zakk would be at the bottom. Magna would also switch places with liger. Try harder.

Hahaha! I'm not an easy mislynch tbh.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Liger

I trust Magna 650% more.

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: zakk
that is a scum move man

not really. i'm sure i know what you're thinking

if you're town you're wrong and if you're scum then well, lol, k then

asking the 11 shot vig question serves no purpose other than for scum to know who to kill at night.

I had similar logic in the 4rd fortnight when I thought gorkington was scum but apparently people doing this shit is "promoting discussion" and townies do it often, idk why.

I've seen scum pull this plenty. It allows them to plan WIFOM and it makes and end game hell. No matter who scum is, if we all answer this they will forever have WIFOM on their side.

[Ircher]

Why not contribute something useful?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Why not contribute something useful?

The irony of this post has me dumb founded.

[Ircher]

All you've done is prod-dodge for like the last 3 weeks.

That and tunnel me.

[drmyshottyizsik]

All you've done is prod-dodge for like the last 3 weeks.

That and tunnel me.

I haven't been tunneling you, I may again soon, but I haven't been. Also between my car accident, my dog dying, and my site ban I've been on MS a lot less the last 3 weeks. I'm working on it.

[Ircher]

Fine, having something by tomorrow at the latest pls & ty.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Why is everyone saying "one person left in the neighborhood is scum" yet nobody is voting either of us?
If what ircher says about not wanting anyone in the neighborhood around (Which makes no sense), why not try to force a 1v1?

I am fine doing a 1v1, but I am wondering why nobody else is pushing it?
I am pretty much doing this now because I don't trust my reads. I am doing this in service to copper.

VOTE: Magnaofillusion

See that's not what happened, in fact a lot of the discussion has ben about how you may both be town, however you seem to want MoI lynched. This tells me one of two things. Either you realllllly believe there is no way the whole hood is town, or you see MoI of a lynch that really should be easy, but is turning out not to be. I feel like you are much more likely to be the second one, and there for I think you are probably scum. While I was catching up, there were a few things you did over the last few pages that is just awful.

I just think the dead players had to be right about something, even though I feel like that isn't the right conclusion on Magna. I hate this, but dead players don't die because they have terrible reads usually. Its cause of one of these:
1) Good reads
2) Strong player
3) They think he is a power role.

This is all speculation and nothing more than a weak straw man cleverly disguised as an later excuse for WIFOM. This is nothing more than a reason to discredit the reads f people still alive, and simultaneously set your self up to say, I'm not scum I just don't have strong reads, good reads, and I haven't acted like a PR hurpa derpa.

3. Liger - The worse of the 2 in the neighborhood
4. Zakk - Healthy paranoia here
5. Pmatt - Good start, but became a lurksaxk
6. Egg - Being useless
7. Nahdia - AtE; Lousy misrep of me today
8. Titus - Healthy paranoia here; don't want to be stuck in LyLo with her
9. Cy - lynch all lurkers
10. Nos - Don't take chances
11. Magna - Don't want the neighborhood in LyLo either for WIFOm

This doesn't make any sense I want to point out.
First of all the first thing he says about me implies that one of the two remaining have to be scum.
Then 11 says don't want any neighborhood around for "WIFOM"? I don't think he knows what he is talking about. WIFOM is nowhere applied in this situation, neighborhoods were created by mod...

I don't side with Ircher very often but I have to here. Instead of thinking like town and saying well ya I can see why the hood may need t go away before lylo, you make excuses for yourself to live regardless of whether or not it is I the best interest of the town.

Why is everyone saying "one person left in the neighborhood is scum" yet nobody is voting either of us?
If what ircher says about not wanting anyone in the neighborhood around (Which makes no sense), why not try to force a 1v1?

I am fine doing a 1v1, but I am wondering why nobody else is pushing it?
I am pretty much doing this now because I don't trust my reads. I am doing this in service to copper.

VOTE: Magnaofillusion

Oh look another example of, well guys I'm not scum I'm just bad and I can't trust my own reads so let's just do this.

Liger, projectmatt, cy (tho he's on V/LA rn) are our lurkers by my count.

I have been lurking very hardcore. It is had to get in this game, and the amount of flips makes it hard to focus on simple things. I don't know, very demotivating in a way.

Again just excuses and preemptive defenses to things that shouldn't and don't even matter right now. Posting about how you've been lurking is just active lurking via post.


Also I don't have much time now so I'll wrap it up with this. Before you vote anyone liger you are always concerned with finding out the reaction of others before hand. You always say things like

I am really thinking of voting Nahdia.

or

I don't have much to comment as of lately. Been busy.
I would be okay with a Ircher wagon as of lately reading his posts.

or

My grammar is horrible. I need to get some rest. If the lynch is between Zakk and Persivul, I may go more towards Persivul right now, though I don't really want to.

You seem afraid of not voting with the group. You don't want to stand out, and you make sure your target is wagonable instead of just voting where you feel you should. This is a huge scum tell and I will now tunnel you.

VOTE: liger

[MagnaofIllusion]

Zakk ISO

–

First mention of Anen is 349 where he specifically has nothing to say about him in a run-down ISO.

971 – comments on Ircher’s meta-tell on Anen and calls Ircher’s post Townie. Want to see if it goes anywhere.

1149 – This doesn’t look like a partner-partner interaction given Daytalk – I don’t see why zakk would go out of his way to remind Anen about a recent game they (and Egg) played together as meta evidence. Especially since meta evidence provided by the player on themselves tends to be viewed as fairly unreliable. Partners I would more expect to have Daytalk discussion so that Anen could drop the meta knowledge not the other way around.

2461 – day 2 Anen is in his middle of the road Town reads. Remains in the same place at 2874 later in the day.

Conclusion

– I’m on the fence but leaning not partner. For someone with as many posts as zakk I would have expected more interaction with Anen regardless of their respective alignments given the familiarity they seem to have. But both are experienced enough I would think they wouldn’t have the awkward inability to authentically interact if partners.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Ok back to current events –

From my read throughs I lean Ircher >> Shaz >> Zakk >> Cy >> PMatt >> Titus on the names that MoIputer spit out as Partners. Cy I would hang in an instant given I think he stands a strong chance as Serial Killer.

From names not on that list I think Egg and Liger are the names that resonate for me. Egg’s constant “30 pages behind” sthick has passed the point where is acceptable and I’m leaning that it is something he is cultivating to not have to stay current with the thread.

I’ve already expressed my thought on Liger in my first post today - the only reason I was Town reading him is that was forthcoming about being a Power-role in the Neighborhood QT . His ISO is Cy level of bad as far as content and scum-hunting goes. His recent posts where most of his pushes seem to be using Copper as a crutch (3290 as example) also hit my gut in an unfavorable way.

Icher’s series of colored vote-counts at 3232 strikes me as very LAMIST (Thanks for that info drop ETL) and IIoA. I don’t see signs of analysis coming out of what he did there at all.

Also a MS first – I agree with Shotty regarding zakk’s “Make your Kill List” post. Well, as far as that it makes it easier for scum to determine who is a better kill at Night.

I honestly did not pay much attn to Anen, much like in the newbie. Actually, the way I was reading Anen is practically the same thing I did in that newbie.

Question is – why? You expressed some level of understanding of Anen’s playstyle as scum early on. What happened that made you drop that like a hot tamale and never revisit it?

I'm mobile posting from d&d night, I'll look over what you said more closely when I get home tonight Magna. I will say that yes, it makes sense, I need to crunch through it though. Also what the hell is a MoIputer? Just your name for your VCA?

1. Yes, it is the name for my specific brand of vote analysis.
2. Did this ever occur? I don’t see evidence it did.

Oh, by the way - Nosferatu never voted Copper again during the course of this game, but only lightly attacked him or said that he was a possible choice for a lynch. This contributes to my theory that Copper was an easy target to attack without having to commit to logically stating -why-.

The rest of Nosferatu's posting is very tonally awkward/non-committal/going with the flow kind of play, but there's some very choice things about his vote on Anen that makes me suspect he is scum as well.

For one, Nosferatu has done the same thing with Anen that he did with Copper - he has lightly posted scumreads on Anen while never voting for him. This is bothersome because it looks like lightly bussing scum that was afraid to commit to the Anen wagon. If Anen really was one of his top scumreads, why didn't he join me or Nahdia on the vote? Why didn't he post anything substantial about Anen at all?

Matt – so your conclusion as far as this section goes is that Nos treated Copper and Anen the same (weak attacks without a major push), they flipped opposite alignments, and both make Nos look more like scum?

Scum: Nosferatu, Egg, Shaziro, Liger (?)

I'm not gonna bother with the vig exercise right now.

Vote: Nosferatu

So for the sake of argument pretend Nos is off the table – which of the others would you be most likely to support? Because I think you are Town and have similar reads on the other three but don’t see myself going after Nos.

[Ircher]

Question is – why? You expressed some level of understanding of Anen’s playstyle as scum early on. What happened that made you drop that like a hot tamale and never revisit it?

Laziness & the fact other people were catching my attn more.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: NY 195 - Day 3 - Liger ISO - June 23

1. 1438 - Very first thing Liger does is state there's a neighborhood -

I have absolutely no clue what you were trying to achieve by outing such info. -

Null-Scum (-1)

2. 1452 - Tries to avoid revealing neighborhood names by stating they are just likely as scum as anyone else -

I seriously don't care what the rest of you think, but a 4p neighborhood has a better chance of having scum than anywhere else. Sure, it's not a guarantee, and that's not what I'm saying, but it is factual to say (and if the wiki truly is outdated, someone should do something about that rather than trying to dispute things from the wiki. If it's truly so outdated where the previous conclusion is no longer the case, that ought to be fixed and is a major problem.) What I dislike here is how Liger mentions a neighborhood in his first post, yet when the follow up posts come, all of the sudden, Liger doesn't want people to lynch in the neighborhood. Why bring it up in the first place? The former seems like an attempt at towncred while the latter is scum hoping not to get PoE'd. -

Scum (-3)

3. 1867 - "Ugh, I am a bit mixed on him. Like I read his case on Persivul, it seemed reasonable, but that doesn't mean scum can't make a good case? I might just not want to be lynch Persivul cause he is in my neighborhood. I do say Zakk has good points. I just can't pinpoint why I think he is scum, even though some of his content is screaming town." -

What even is this? So, you think his content screams town yet you vote him in 1865, and furthermore, you can't even remember the reason why Zakk is town. Most perfect sense for scum trying to push a faked read. -

Scum (-3)

4. 2098 - Failed lolhammer; tries to make up excuses in 2099 -

Ofc, you switch wagons right when it's convenient: right when you think you can get away with lolhammering Percival. DIE SCUM! -

Very Scummy (-4)

5. 3000 - Reports Copper/Magna were fighting with each other -

You know what DIDN'T happen in the neighborhood ACCORDING to this report? Thanks for scumclaiming; ofc, scum!Liger would let Copper/Magna TvT fight each other while watching the conflict go by in the background. Please lynch this with fire; thanks! -

Near-Confirmed Scum (-5)

6. 3023, 3196, 3291 -

I think it was Shotty who mentioned this, but seriously, your votes seem very calculated and it seems like you only vote someone if you think there's little risk. Your voting behavior, etc here does not look genuine at all. -

Very Scummy (-4)

If we're not lynching/pressuring Shaz to explain his inconsistency, then we should definitely lynch Liger.

[cytheflyguy]

I need more from cy, liger, and nos before we do anything. Normally I'm not the "omg stop everything let's get lurkers talking" type, but the field is getting too narrow to let this go on.

What would you like specifically?