Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Chip Butty]

@Maruchan: I get that you have limited internet access and all, but do you really need to wallpost I mean, within that onse session you get a day, couldn't you make several smaller posts, rather than one big one? Would make your stuff easier to read.

[Chip Butty]

So much for catching up. Got stuff to do now, more in about 12 hours, prob.

[Transcend]

i agree chip. can't be fucked to read wallposts.

so much can be said with so little.

[MURDERCAT]

5 days left and we don't have shit. We need to wagon.

[Transcend]

who do you suggest we wagon then?

[MURDERCAT]

I feel better about podoboq because both podoboq and smith are scummy to me, but podoboq is on smith.

[Transcend]

bleh

got a case on him or something

[MURDERCAT]

ok

[podoboq]

At this point, I'd lynch Smithereens, MURDERCAT, Ranger, or Aneninen for the "reaction test" bullshit

(and his terrible read on me, but ignore that part)

.

Consider me a vote on any of those wagons.

[MURDERCAT]

I get what he's saying, I don't think it's a big deal, I do that as town.

Something is pinging me really hard about your post though.

VOTE: Maruchan

I'm not really bothered by it. The game is two days in with one page to look at. He's just over analyzing. That's not scummy.

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

Hmmm.

Sure, my vote on Cakez isn't doing anything except being cute, and I'm picking up what you're putting down.

VOTE: Maruchan

This switch definitely stood out. I don't really see why anyone else would sheep me there.

@post 98

UNVOTE:

Those are all really damn good points, and more importantly, exactly the response I would expect from town. In my experience, scum tends to worry about showing that something got under their skin. Not so here.

And then off again later. I don't know, I don't read super confused towny out of podoboq so the back and forth is confusing.

TOWNY:

Spoiler: Maruchan

Already explained. I liked his wall. Haven't read the recent one, yet. That's next.

And now towny? Idk, feels fake.

OK, so Maru is basically obv town to me.

Now obv town.

I'm just not buying it. Maru hasn't done that much and is not obv town. The one issue I have is that I didn't love the initial wagon. Let's try again though and see what happens this time.

[podoboq]

@ all of 334
Maru had one anti-me post, that was relatively small, when the game was very fresh. I didn't think much of it, then it pinged someone else, and I placed a vote there, mostly to move things along and see what reactions might look like.

Then, after Maru's follow up, it became obvious to me that he was town, and I haven't gone back on that ever since.

[Smithereens]

Anenenin/murdercat are two good wagons if you're still asking. Podoboq is almost certainly going to become a counter wagon because the scum can't choose between either of the first two.

[SirCakez]

Before posting more content... where did that Smithereens wagon come from?

It should be obvious if you're reading the game

The game is stagnanting. Transcend's jump on Anen stunk. Anen is a null read still because I have no clue how to read him. Dix is also sinking to a scum read.
Want Smithereens/Penguin dead today

[Ranger]

Why aren't you happy with the Smithereens wagon?

Because it has people I'm suspicious of on it, while being on a player I do not find suspicious.

If lynch within smithereens ranger and shotty at this point

...Find a townflip guaranteed, we will!
{karnos, Aneninen}
{SirCakez, Smithereens}
{shotty, Chip Butty, Murdercat}
{DixC}
{Maruchan, Transcend}
{podoboq, PenguinPower}

[Ranger]

confirm with Ranger cuz she also knows due to reasons that can't be raised.

I know why you think like this, can confirm that.
However, personally, I find that your premise is wrong:

Transcend is not the same in all his games.

Ranger or anyone else experienced with close reading, can you read 312 and then the two posts immediately before it and tell us if 312 is strong scum AI?

In theory, it should be. In practice, not necessarily. I personally don't think it meant anything for Murdercat.

[karnos]

So. Ranger is talking like Yoda. I mostly bought the idea that podoboq is town from his posting pattern, while smithereens is... a little bit off.

I feel better about podoboq because both podoboq and smith are scummy to me, but podoboq is on smith.

You don't think this might be because podo also reads smithereen to be scum? Remember, we already tried the podoboq wagon. It hit L-1 really fast and IMO the reactions from him seemed to point more towards town than scum. So the only reason to push a wagon now is to actually lynch him, and I'm not on board for that.

[MURDERCAT]

I want to see who jumps on again and who doesn't and why. And yeah of course podo could be town thinking smith is scum, I still don't love voting with scum reads though.

[PenguinPower]

Anenenin/murdercat are two good wagons if you're still asking. Podoboq is almost certainly going to become a counter wagon because the scum can't choose between either of the first two.

Those are two bad wagons imo. I'm think Anen is more than likely town, and murdercat is leaning either way for me right now.

My gut right now...it's between you and podo with a little shotty thrown in for good measure. But, I'm going to stick on podo for the same reasons I switched to him to begin with.

[Chip Butty]

Mind explaining the Karnos read a bit more if you are sticking to it?

Out of the more than 20 games I've played with him previously, he is only ever this quiet when he is scum. I'd like to hear from in before changing my vote.

UNVOTE:

Need to re-read this thread...I'm torn between Smithereens due to what karnos said above, and Ranger because I just cannot believe that after 100 more posts, he reads remain unchanged given some of the exchanges.

Is karnos now posting at a Town AI level, in your opinion? Because you seem to have dropped this without a word?

And in the second quote, you say you are influenced by karnos' read on Smithereens, yet you didn't say anything positive about him since having your (RVS-then-non-RVS) vote on him. What's up withh that?

[PenguinPower]

Mind explaining the Karnos read a bit more if you are sticking to it?

Out of the more than 20 games I've played with him previously, he is only ever this quiet when he is scum. I'd like to hear from in before changing my vote.

UNVOTE:

Need to re-read this thread...I'm torn between Smithereens due to what karnos said above, and Ranger because I just cannot believe that after 100 more posts, he reads remain unchanged given some of the exchanges.

Is karnos now posting at a Town AI level, in your opinion? Because you seem to have dropped this without a word?

And in the second quote, you say you are influenced by karnos' read on Smithereens, yet you didn't say anything positive about him since having your (RVS-then-non-RVS) vote on him. What's up withh that?

I changed my vote to podo based on karnos' response to my request (129) as I no longer got that strong scummy feel, mostly because I was basing my assumption that his quietness was directly correlated to his scummyness and then realized that all the previous games we played together would be considered Blitz games.

In the second quote, I wasn't referring to being influenced by karnos' read, but that I was considering Smithereens because as others have said; karnos reiterated; and, I also believe, 138 was "sketchy as hell."

That being said, I do get a townread from karnos, but he has shown me in the past that he's good at seeming town when scummy. I'm keeping him neutral to neutral-town in my book for now.

[karnos]

I want to see who jumps on again and who doesn't and why. And yeah of course podo could be town thinking smith is scum, I still don't love voting with scum reads though.

I don't like this.

312 I didn't like that either.

Not going to link the whole iso, but a lot murdercat's other stuff just looks like busy posts or fake read lists.

My vote on smithereens is feeling stale, time for a change.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

[DixC]

I reviewed all ISOs and concluded that this an accurate post:

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

I'm goign to jsut break this donw bit by bit.

1. Tone. You can gauge tone over internet? Have you gotten in contact with all the famous things like Ripley's Giuness, etc (IDK how to spell them)? Might be able to sell this skill as an oddity.

Real number 1 now that the sarcasm is over: You decided that I was acting like I had a town read on you, based off of me explaining something? Like are you for real? No. I don't have a read on anyone. I suck at reads. Over analyzing and making cases and arguments I'm good at. Implying that because I overtly explained a concept to you, means i have subconsciously labeled you as town, is just dumb. Whats even dumber is to do so "based on past experience" when that past experience is with complete random other people that aren't me. I like to be able to communicate/explain/teach. I enjoy the feeling that something i expanded up[on helps someoen else understand something better. Period. real life, mafia, good/bad guy, whatever. Thats a personality trait. Deal with it.

2. Saying pointing out someone's good catch's is buddying. So we're all independently scummhunting here? there's no group cohesion?

Mod go ahead and close the topic, we don't need it anymore. We can scumhunt without the rest of these fools, on our own. That whole group-process to finding scum is overhyped apparently

(I guess I wasn't done with the sarcasm). Pointing out that you didn't notice something, that someone else did, and that you agree with it, encourages more content from them. It's a concept called positive reinforcement. Think of potty training a dog. I'll give three examples that are the most similar to ways I could have reacted to someone else posting good content. So, I have a new dog I'm trying to pottytrain. he goes pee in the house. Lets take option 1. Ignore it and not give positive or negative reinforcement. He has no lesson to learn one way or the other as I haven't given him a lesson. He continues to pee in the house. He pees outside. We take Option 1 again and not give a positive or negative reaction. He never gets pottytrained nad he keeps peeing inside and outside, both good and bad actions, and he never becomes a better dog. Skip to option 2. He pees inside. You scold him. You punish him. You've negatively reinforced the behavior. He goes pee outside, no reaction. He's confused. He knows you DON'T want him peeing inside, but doesn't know that you DO want him peeing outside. Maybe he thinks he just cant pee in that room, and he tries another room, still a bad action. eventually by process of elimination, he will learn that the only thing that is not negatively-reinforced is the outside. the one good option. this takes forever. Skip to option 3. He goes pee inside. You do nothing. he doesn't stop peeing inside, no lesson learned. he pees outside. you give him a treat. he goes ecstatic over that treat and wants to learn how to get more. he goes pee inside again and gets no treat. he gets a treat when he goes pee outside. OH SHIT. He's just learned the quickest way to get treats is to pee outside, and he IMMEDIATELY ceases peeing inside, because he wants fuckin treats yo! You've just pottytraiend your dog.


of coruse the most efficient way is to combine postive and negative reinforcement to back each other up, BUT IF YO UCOULD ONLY postive OR ignore OR negative, the best thign is to positive.

same thing to player participation in a game. You keep telling them they are doing the right thing, you appreciate their efforts, you want them to continue trying, you'll get good engaged, players who actively try to scumhunt.
you just keep telling them when they are wrong, they get apathetic, they lurkmoar, they proddodge, they resent you, the game stagnantes.


I think telling someone they made a Good!Post, is the best option here yeah? Not buddying. Encouraging pro-town behavior.


3. Not worthy of a vote. This is fucking Page 1, Day 1, less then 10 posts into the game, random voting/question stage. NO CONTENT here is usually EVER worthy of a Serious!Vote, this early. I was not willing to make the irst Serious!Vote of the game, based of this little.

You have no qualms, you mate the first Serious!Vote of the game, on me, for over-analyzing something. While your justification is misguided, your willingness to stick your neck out earns townie points. good job. Now just try to annoy me less when you earn your towny points and we'll get along just fine.


4. I didn't have a really good opinion. I wasn't trying to seem like I was. I apologize if you got that impression. I was merely trying to expand on a point that was only briefly made, to more publicly cement that point into the collective group psych, so as to ensure it stuck, and wasn't glossed over. Later, based on podoboq's future actions, this point is either 100% null, or can back up a pattern of future scummy behavior.


Glad to see my inherent personalty quirks continue to get me scumread out the gate. Go take a quick meta on the playerslots in my most recent 2-3 games, and tell me you see any difference in the play of my first post here than in those, and then take a look at what roles i flipped in them.


I love how you and SirCakez are pinging on me for "trying to appear to do something when not actually doing anything" when that's exactly what we were pinging on podoboq about. -.-



Literally #62 and #63 stopped me from frustration replacing out after #60 and my last game I played. I'm sick of people getting on me for over-explaining stuff, when that's just my fucking personality


Ranger wtf is your #64-#66, I don't even understand. You did that same shit last game and i never fucking understood wtf you were doing



@Murdercat #95, proddign someone to respond to your post, when they have yet to post after it is stupid. They likely haven't read your post yet. Take al ook at their "Last Online" on their profile.

Or meta me in any game for the past 3 years, and learn I'm in the Navy and have a hectic schedule, and if you read an older game you'd know we go underway often where I only get internet during Evening hours, and if you read a recent game you'd know I'm on deployment right now, which is permanently underway, with internet only during evening hours. I literally cannot respond to your post any quicker.

be assured, I do read each and every post, and I do make massive wall-style catchups to every post since my last post. I just take awhile to do it. If i don't respond to a specific line of inquiry, AFTER I make my post, fee lfree to ping me on it.

My conclusion is that we're on the right course shutting down people that try to shut down people.

[podoboq]

I want to see who jumps on again and who doesn't and why. And yeah of course podo could be town thinking smith is scum, I still don't love voting with scum reads though.

I don't like this.

312 I didn't like that either.

Not going to link the whole iso, but a lot murdercat's other stuff just looks like busy posts or fake read lists.

My vote on smithereens is feeling stale, time for a change.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

I was saying this about Murdercat a while ago.
VOTE: MURDERCAT

[MURDERCAT]

This is a scum driven wagon.

[Smithereens]

Is that a really indirect way of calling me scum?