Open 647: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[MURDERCAT]

I agree about Karnos, I just think podo is BSing to push me.

[podoboq]

For reference:

MURDERCAT:
Seems opportunistic, and posts a lot without contributing much of anything. He seems to be the second person to say anything he says, which is a sign of someone trying to blend in while still pushing their own agenda.

[Transcend]

UNVOTE:

mc i'll give you BOTD right now because i'm honestly not very confident about any reads i have right now this game.

[podoboq]

Karnos is pushing murdercat for looking like he's just trying to look busy.
I'm pushing murdercat for looking like he's just trying to look busy.
Murdercat says Karnos is probably town, but I'm coming up with BS reasons to push him, when Karnos and I have the same reason to push him.

There is an inconsistency there.

[Transcend]

hmmmmmmmmm decent observation.

but do you think that because of the reason you fos him is the only reason he foses you > karnos?

[podoboq]

hmmmmmmmmm decent observation.

but do you think that because of the reason you fos him is the only reason he foses you > karnos?

I'm not sure what you're asking.

I don't fos murdercat. I'm voting for him and so is karnos.

Like, maybe murdercat has other reasons to scumread me, but he did just say that I'm coming up with BS reasons (while Karnos isn't) and he just accused me of scumslipping, which is obviously garbage. His recently stated reasons for basically calling me scum are very bad.

[Transcend]

what i'm saying is that you don't think that MURDERCAT foses you for other reasons besides you calling him trying to look busy?

[podoboq]

what i'm saying is that you don't think that MURDERCAT foses you for other reasons besides you calling him trying to look busy?

I'm sure that he can generate a reason. We can come up with bad reasons to scumread anyone if we wanted to. But only scum has reason to.

Murdercat's two reasons he's given recently to scumread me are just flagrantly bad. I'll go ahead and read through his ISO to see if he's given any legit reasons earlier.

[Transcend]

Go for it chief.

[podoboq]

There's the Maru wall, which is also all bad. Hidden behind spoiler, because it's a wall.

Spoiler: Murder's wall on my interactions with Maru

I get what he's saying, I don't think it's a big deal, I do that as town.

Something is pinging me really hard about your post though.

VOTE: Maruchan

I'm not really bothered by it. The game is two days in with one page to look at. He's just over analyzing. That's not scummy.

What's pinging me about 27 is that I'm being talked to in a way (tone wise) that usually only comes about when someone has a strong town read on me later in the game. There's of course no way to know I'm town yet, unless you are scum. I also don't like the "it's a really good catch" part (feels like a buddy) but then saying it's not worthy of a vote. But then unless you give content he's highly inclined to vote. It feels like he doesn't have a real opinion, but he's trying to make it seem like he does.

Hmmm.

Sure, my vote on Cakez isn't doing anything except being cute, and I'm picking up what you're putting down.

VOTE: Maruchan

This switch definitely stood out. I don't really see why anyone else would sheep me there.

@post 98

UNVOTE:

Those are all really damn good points, and more importantly, exactly the response I would expect from town. In my experience, scum tends to worry about showing that something got under their skin. Not so here.

And then off again later. I don't know, I don't read super confused towny out of podoboq so the back and forth is confusing.

TOWNY:
Maru:
Already explained. I liked his wall. Haven't read the recent one, yet. That's next.

And now towny? Idk, feels fake.

OK, so Maru is basically obv town to me.

Now obv town.

I'm just not buying it. Maru hasn't done that much and is not obv town. The one issue I have is that I didn't love the initial wagon. Let's try again though and see what happens this time.

This is bad, because it's just not logical. Murder paints me as flipflopping on my read on Maru, but all I did was vote there during RVS, then take my vote off and refer to him as obvtown, which has been consistent for the rest of the game. I haven't flipflopped on Maru at all.

[podoboq]

Anen and Ranger, how do you feel about penguin being on the podoboq wagon?

VOTE: podoboq

Sheeping Anen about Smith.

There is nothing surrounding this vote to justify why it was made, except that other players are scumreading me, making it an easy wagon to join without much skepticism.

[podoboq]

VOTE: Smithereens

Vote on Podo looks the worst and I think podo looks ok now.

In fact, this was Murder's last post that referenced me before that last one, where he completely doubled back and voted me again.

[Transcend]

Hey MURDERCAT: How come you fos podoboq for TRing Maruchan after voting him without much meat to his vote?

[podoboq]

I'm ok with that.

VOTE: Podo

Because the unvote was terrible, really looks like he was looking for a reason to take it off.

This is it. This is the only other logic I have been able to find for why murder scumreads me, and it's bad. Based on (basically) only my interactions with Maruchan, I was L-1ed, then everyone realized that the wagon was obviously being driven by scum, and backed off.

So I'm going to go ahead and rule that my interactions with Maru are clearly not enough of a reason to scumread me, since it wasn't enough to lynch me before. And there's no real reason that he's given to scumread me now......so....

[MURDERCAT]

I'm honestly not sure how to parse that sentence.

[Transcend]

And podoboq how come you townread Maruchan when he's only had 9 posts, 2 of which being semi-walls and one of them being a giant ass fucking wall?

[MURDERCAT]

My issue with the town read on Maru is that there was nothing in that wall that made him seem obv town. I do think there was scum on your wagon, but that doesn't mean you aren't scum.

[podoboq]

I'm honestly not sure how to parse that sentence.

Allow me to attempt to translate.

Why do you scumread me for the following interaction:
Townreading Maruchan after my non-scumread-influenced vote on Maruchan.

[Transcend]

MURDERCAT: podoboq says that his vote on Maruchan didn't hold much value given it was in the RVS stage somewhat. So, how come you think that him flip flopping his read on Maruchan to being town is BS?

PEDIT: Okay who do you think is scum on the Podo lynch?

[podoboq]

And podoboq how come you townread Maruchan when he's only had 9 posts, 2 of which being semi-walls and one of them being a giant ass fucking wall?

My issue with the town read on Maru is that there was nothing in that wall that made him seem obv town. I do think there was scum on your wagon, but that doesn't mean you aren't scum.

If the following wall I made doesn't explain my logic enough, I'll make another one.

Alright, let's do this.

Real number 1 now that the sarcasm is over: You decided that I was acting like I had a town read on you, based off of me explaining something? Like are you for real? No. I don't have a read on anyone. I suck at reads. Over analyzing and making cases and arguments I'm good at. Implying that because I overtly explained a concept to you, means i have subconsciously labeled you as town, is just dumb.

This is a good point. Murdercat thought it looked like Maru was townreading them, and he wasn't. He was just being overly explanatory, which has been a trend. I saw this explanation as consistent with the other things from Maru, and it struck as true.

Also in here, self awareness to say that you suck at reads is something that I respect. I think self deprecation is more common from town.

2. Saying pointing out someone's good catch's is buddying. So we're all independently scummhunting here?

Maru was right to point this out. It didn't look like buddying when I saw it originally. In the early game, finding other townies and building a small circle of trust is a good thing, not buddying. He elaborate on this point way too long, weaving in a convoluted analogy, but this is, again, a trend. It looks like a townie playing their normal game to me, not cornered scum.

3. Not worthy of a vote. This is fucking Page 1, Day 1, less then 10 posts into the game, random voting/question stage. NO CONTENT here is usually EVER worthy of a Serious!Vote, this early. I was not willing to make the first Serious!Vote of the game, based of this little.

He's being accused of fence-sitting basically just because he didn't vote for me. But there's a damn good reason he didn't vote for me, and I think it's valid. He still put pressure on me, by making me justify why I wanted to see the previous thread, and that's something that town does. If he were scum, he wouldn't have challenged me to show my work to prove my intentions.

4. I didn't have a really good opinion. I wasn't trying to seem like I was. I apologize if you got that impression. I was merely trying to expand on a point that was only briefly made, to more publicly cement that point into the collective group psych, so as to ensure it stuck, and wasn't glossed over.

We were early in the game, and Maru went into great detail on a small point because it was basically the biggest thing to look at at the time. Again, this just looks consistent. Seeing this wall, that kind of just came out of nowhere, it justifies why he went into such detail on his earlier point.


I think these are good point. I also think the way they were presented (albeit over the top) is towny as hell. Scum doesn't want to draw attention to themselves, and I don't think they're heavily incentivized to be this over the top. Maru could have brushed off the votes with a lot fewer words, but didn't, because he wanted to be understood, and felt like he wasn't. I sympathize with that, and I read it as towny.

Cakez, my last game's experience with you has shaken my confidence in my reads, so if I'm wrong here, so be it. But I read Maru as town, and unvoted him. I hope I've thoroughly explained my reasoning as to why. If you don't agree with my reasoning, then that's one thing, but it's there. I'm not making up excuses for my unvote.

Again, just because you don't agree with my read on Maru doesn't mean my read is inspired by scumminess.

[MURDERCAT]

So podo goes from saying a post isn't a problem and then sheeping me about it. I think that's strange, TBH because my reasoning was pretty gut based. And then to go to immediately town reading from a wall that honestly was not that AI makes it seem like podo is not really forming his own reads.

I think smith was the worst one on the podo wagon. Although Karnos is looking someone opportunistic to me too now considering the recent vote on me.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah, I read the wall. I just don't agree with it at all really.

[Transcend]

Man.

[podoboq]

PEDIT: Okay who do you think is scum on the Podo lynch?

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but these were the six on my wagon when it hit L-1, in order of when they voted:
Chip Butty, drmyshottyizsik, MURDERCAT, Smithereens, karnos, PenguinPower

These are my reads on them:

karnos
Chip Butty
drmyshottyizsik

PenguinPower

Smithereens
MURDERCAT

[Transcend]

Feeling Smith!Scum rn again