Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Creature]

Creature, you only joined the site a few months ago, you are kind of a noob

But I don't play awfully/not to my wincon.

[Creature]

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

[Smithereens]

If he's town I don't think he's playing against his win condition. If he's scum I don't think he's playing against his win condition.

The fact that you keep talking about it bothers me very much especially after you tried to imply I didn't care about (or was playing against) my win condition.

I'm voting you and will be ignoring you from now on cause I don't see this push coming from a townie.

vote: smitherines

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8062522

Brain fart on your behalf. Not really my concern that you see wincon differently to how I see it. It is my concern though if you're going voting again based on your own conceptions, just like before when it turned out you were literally not comprehending I was coming from a different line of thought.

[Smithereens]

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

[Creature]

I don't think scum can easily fake scum hunting.

[Dragon of the West]

PEdit: nope, smith is town too

If you had to vote for someone right now, a lynch vote not a pressure vote, who would it be on? You've called all the main suspects your townreads

[Dragon of the West]

Main suspects being the 3 people that have had a wagon on them so far

[Dragon of the West]

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

Here's the problem, you can't always tell exactly which wincon a person is supporting. Especially when you don't low who all of the scum are. If someone has a strong read on 2 people and is almost certain they're scum and then says those are two that need to be lynched is that town win con? For a town player it is. But if both of those lynches flip town, that player looks scummy and looks like he's playing towards scum wincon because he called for mislynches. But then he's really town and he was just trying to lynch who he thought was scum which is town win con. Oh wow by looking at wincon alone they've now mislynches three people. Super awesome

[Dragon of the West]

You can't possibly know what win condition everyone is playing to all the time. That's kind of the point. That's what makes this game more in depth then blindly following whatever the hell you think wincon looks like in that moment

[F-oh-ex]

Ah, waking up to a jungle of new pages. #JustEuropeanThings
We got a replacement for a lurker, great. Let me wrap my head around what happened and I'll give my opinion on the new developments.

[Infinity 324]

PEdit: nope, smith is town too

If you had to vote for someone right now, a lynch vote not a pressure vote, who would it be on? You've called all the main suspects your townreads

Yeah, this always happens that I have too many townreads :/ I do have a gut scumread on mario, but other than that, it would be derek. He seems to be commenting from the sidelines a lot, and I felt like he was buddying dwlee early on.

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

I think it's easier to fake playing to a town wincon generally than to fake scumhunting or emotion.

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

Here's the problem, you can't always tell exactly which wincon a person is supporting. Especially when you don't low who all of the scum are. If someone has a strong read on 2 people and is almost certain they're scum and then says those are two that need to be lynched is that town win con? For a town player it is. But if both of those lynches flip town, that player looks scummy and looks like he's playing towards scum wincon because he called for mislynches. But then he's really town and he was just trying to lynch who he thought was scum which is town win con. Oh wow by looking at wincon alone they've now mislynches three people. Super awesome

QFT

[atm487]

yo quick question, how do I put on the tag that says "On Vacation"

[Smithereens]

Do you think it's town saying everything can easily be faked and suggesting someone of not playing to their win condition?

Here's how I weigh scum:
Are they pushing an agenda that progresses town's wincon? Y/N.
If Y, don't lynch, If N, do lynch.

You and every other player here don't give enough attention to reading posts in the context of the wider game. You can't possibly read motives without considering which team they benefit. I appear to be the only one with these thoughts which is slightly disappointing to understate it.

Here's the problem, you can't always tell exactly which wincon a person is supporting. Especially when you don't low who all of the scum are. If someone has a strong read on 2 people and is almost certain they're scum and then says those are two that need to be lynched is that town win con? For a town player it is. But if both of those lynches flip town, that player looks scummy and looks like he's playing towards scum wincon because he called for mislynches. But then he's really town and he was just trying to lynch who he thought was scum which is town win con. Oh wow by looking at wincon alone they've now mislynches three people. Super awesome

The ambiguity is why we are arguing in the first place. My position is that Creature is behaving in such a way that would save a scum buddy. He isn't progressing the game for town because if he were he would have thought up valid reasons for backflipping/ reinstate his vote after finding out that his reasons were incorrect.

[Smithereens]

yo quick question, how do I put on the tag that says "On Vacation"

User control panel -> V/LA

[Infinity 324]

His reasons were very valid, I agreed with them.

[Sméagol]

C

o

m

m

e

n

t

stelo

has been replaced by

petroleumjelly

.

petroleumjelly will also be on VLA, from 07 July to 11 July.

I'll extend the phases to accommodate the lucky vacation people, so they'll have plenty of opportunity to post.

A

c

h

i

e

v

e

m

e

n

t

u

n

l

o

c

k

e

d

!

petroleumjelly

has achieved

Late to the party

- Thanks for replacing in!

[Infinity 324]

Hello, are you scum?

[Dragon of the West]

Hello, are you scum?

lol

[Sméagol]

V

o

t

e

c

o

u

n

t

Day 1 #12

Smithereens [

2

]:

Creature

/

Robbnva

Creature [

3

]:

F-oh-ex

/

crazycrabman

/

Smithereens

MarioManiac4 [

2

]:

Dragon of the West

/

Infinity 324

Derek12 [

1

]:

MarioManiac4

Eggman [

1

]:

atm487

crazycrabman [

3

]:

Derek12

/

Dwlee99

/

Eggman

Abstaining [1]:

petroleumjelly

There are 13 active players.
Absolute majority is

7

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Previous vote count
Next vote count

Spoiler: Current player list

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

Spoiler: Days & nights

Day 1

Spoiler: V/LA

Infinity 324

- 10 July - 16 July

petroleumjelly

- 07 July - 11 July

Deadline is

07-07-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-07-07 00:00:00)).

[Eggman]

UNVOTE: Crabman
More in the morning. I should really get to bed.

[Derek12]

Huzzah, our second replacement!

Now we only need one for Mario.

[petroleumjelly]

Very tired, and I have not read the game as closely as I would like. My take-aways:

1.)

I am undecided on Eggman.

But I do not believe the seemingly popular Creature-Eggman connection. Creature was really the first player to draw attention towards Eggman's posting in Post 91 which led to him looking more in-depth in Post 95. It looks natural, as does his unvote. While I agree Eggman did not technically crumb vanilla, I can believe the intent was there and that Creature was working from that intent when he unvoted.

Given how players seem to agree it is a bad idea from anybody to crumb vanilla, I am surprised at how many people have nevertheless theorized that a mafia partner might have directed Eggman to do so.

2.)

Robbnva has pinged my radar

many

times. I will just copy-paste some of my notes (with a single pro-town mark):

Post #28: Robbnva "I'm not scum but... you're on my watch list"
Post #94: Robbnva suggests he needs to "calm down" (does not sound like somebody with 135 games under his belt)
Post #154: Robbnva "missed" Creature's case on Smithereens and will "read it later" despite constantly posting (why not "read it now" or read it before posting) => trying too hard to look engaged
Post #326: Robbnva calls Creature unvote (preventing hammer on Eggman) "weird" and says Smithereens has "good points" against Creature
Post #430/431: Robbnva is "worried" about players who do not have a read on him, and implies atm487 is not "playing the game" for not having previously mentioned his misgivings about Robbnva
Post #435: Robbnva again uses language to make atm487 look bad ("nonsense," "confus[ing]," "laughable")
Post #488: Robbnva tries to make it look ridiculous that Creature is "scumreading a vacant slot" (when Creature is clearly using process of elimination)
Post #534: Robbnva seconds Creature to stop asking for prods (... really?)
Post #542: Robbnva has questioned "at least ha[lf] the player list" (running theme of pointing out his own accomplishments in-game)
Post #545: Robbnva explains doubts on Eggman lynch (fair post+)
Post #610: Robbnva votes crab and requests investigation on Creature (?!)
Post #822: Robbnva votes Smithereens and "will ignore from now on"

3.)

Dragon of the West seems to have transformed starting around Post #632. Prior to that he seemed to jump in to make inane comments, or comments seemingly designed to keep the day going in the direction it was already going (i.e., an Eggman or Creature lynch). I was ready to call him out for textbook active lurking. Now he has "softened" his read after the wagon has substantially ebbed.

Dragon of the West, do you feel like your play has kicked into gear lately? Why?

4.)

Smithereens has been putting unusual pressure on certain players for votes (i.e., trying to get Creature to put Eggman back at L-1, and then trying to get Robbnva to vote for Creature in exchange for a crazycrabman on Day Two). I

really

have not liked it.

~

I have more, but I need sleep. Expect questions. A busy weekend coming up, but I will try to make time when I get home at night. For now:

Vote: Robbnva

[Robbnva]

1. You're like the second person to have issues with the "I'm not scum but" thing. Why? If you are accused of being scum and you aren't the natural reaction is to deny that you are scum.
2. Yes it does because I'm an angry player at times. I get into arguments with people quite frequently
3. Not sure why you have an issue with 154. That was a genuine post
4. Not sure what your issue with 326 is either. Stevie wonder himself can see creatures 180 was weird.
5. 430/431 are excellent posts. If you don't agree that really makes me question your intentions. If a player who's made a bunch of posts is still unreadable to you and that same player isn't making an effort to engage with that person to attempt to read them better they aren't playing the game. That's not even my opinion anymore. That's an honest to god fact. Like seriously how do you have an issue with that?
6. Why the soft defense on atm? Atm does look bad. He looks like he isn't playing the game.
7. it is ridiculous that he's scum reading a vacant slot and from his post there is NO WAY you or anyone else can determine he's using Poe. You are letting your bias show with this one.
8. Yes really. Now you are just being nitpicky
9. 542 - this makes me town actually. I'm playing the game and attempting to develop reads. Yet you put that as a knock against me? And at the end of your post you vote me? Are you even town? There is literally no way you can read my posts and think I could be scum right now.
10. Of course it's a fair post. All of my posts have been fair posts. Why do you only concede that one? Weird
11. More nitpicky stuff. Like there is seriously nothing wrong with requesting a scummy player being investigated or me voting a person I'm scum reading.
12. Yes I did and yes I will. What's the issue?

Conclusion your posts and vote are terrible. If you are town you need to do better.

[Robbnva]

Now to your other stuff.

1. How can you possibly be unsure of eggman? There's plenty from him to determine a read. You have given enough just in the blurb about creature/eggman alone that implies you could actually make an informed decision yet you can't? That's weird.

2. The point you bring out about dragon is actually a better reason for you to want to pressure dragon yet you don't seem to want to. Active lurking until a couple of potentional wagons ebbed and now a play style change? Why aren't you pressuring that and instead attacking me for protown posts?

3. Your points about smitherines is also good and I feel that you have better reason for voting him yet you don't...

Yeah I'd gladly be ok with somebody investigating you also. If you are town your opinions can be ignored because you make good points about people and ignore those and make bad points and votes that one.

[Dwlee99]

Why does petroleumjelly's catchup only talk about 5 players?