Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[MarioManiac4]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

PEdit: What's up creature

So you have two scumreads- me and Robbvna. You say that i'm null, leaning scum because of gut, and then give legitimate reasons for scumreading Robb. Why?
Or are you hopping on a bandwagon you saw pop up?
I notice you say later you want to crack Creature- so why don't you vote him yourself?

[MarioManiac4]

You aren't even trying to establish reads. Right now your play is p.much textbook active lurking

I haven't actually been that active, as people have noted about ten million times, and I'm trying to correct that this weekend. C'mon, if you're going to apply useless buzzwords to my play at least make them correct.

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: MarioManiac4 I want to hear more from him and I really feel like the only way to do that is to start putting some votes on him. I'm on board with both the creature and crazy wagons though as they're still my main scumreads. I don't think they could both be part of the same scum team though. I'll go through their interactions in a bit to see if I'm wrong, but just from memory it seems like they've both taken decent cracks at each other

Interesting... why did you think this is true?

Which part of it? Getting you to give more or thinking they can't be on a scum team together?

The vote getting me to give more. I don't see how it would work.

[Infinity 324]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

PEdit: What's up creature

So you have two scumreads- me and Robbvna. You say that i'm null, leaning scum because of gut, and then give legitimate reasons for scumreading Robb. Why?
Or are you hopping on a bandwagon you saw pop up?

Just a wagon for pressure, I don't think voting robb accomplishes much at this point. Since then, robb has looked townie in my interactions with him.

I notice you say later you want to crack Creature- so why don't you vote him yourself?

Creature is my strongest town read, I was wondering why robb didn't want to pressure him more.

[Dragon of the West]

This only my second game ever

Really? You seem to know a lot of mafia theory for only your second game!

Thanks I read up on it a decent amount prior to my first game on the wiki and a lot of the theory is just some form of logic and that stuff clicks well with me

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: MarioManiac4 I want to hear more from him and I really feel like the only way to do that is to start putting some votes on him. I'm on board with both the creature and crazy wagons though as they're still my main scumreads. I don't think they could both be part of the same scum team though. I'll go through their interactions in a bit to see if I'm wrong, but just from memory it seems like they've both taken decent cracks at each other

Interesting... why did you think this is true?

Which part of it? Getting you to give more or thinking they can't be on a scum team together?

The vote getting me to give more. I don't see how it would work.

The idea was for a few people to put a vote on you and maybe get you to respond to those votes and put forth something useful. I feel like that's pretty self explanatory and it was worth a try

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: MarioManiac4 I want to hear more from him and I really feel like the only way to do that is to start putting some votes on him. I'm on board with both the creature and crazy wagons though as they're still my main scumreads. I don't think they could both be part of the same scum team though. I'll go through their interactions in a bit to see if I'm wrong, but just from memory it seems like they've both taken decent cracks at each other

Interesting... why did you think this is true?

Which part of it? Getting you to give more or thinking they can't be on a scum team together?

The vote getting me to give more. I don't see how it would work.

The idea was for a few people to put a vote on you and maybe get you to respond to those votes and put forth something useful. I feel like that's pretty self explanatory and it was worth a try

But you literally said that it was just to pressure me in the public thread.

[Robbnva]

You aren't even trying to establish reads. Right now your play is p.much textbook active lurking

I haven't actually been that active, as people have noted about ten million times, and I'm trying to correct that this weekend. C'mon, if you're going to apply useless buzzwords to my play at least make them correct.

From the wiki

Examples of active lurking include posts made only of taunts,

excuses for not posting

, incoherent gibberish that will lead people to suspect that you do not have the Internet savvy to play Mafia, general bland agreement with whatever is going on, [/b]prod dodges, and so forth. For the less couth readers, this is frequently called "bullshitting" in MeatWorld.[/b]

I am according to the wiki. See the bolded is basically what your contributions have been this far. The fact that you usually post before you are due for a prod and have only managed to be prodded once pretty much means my accusation is correct

[Robbnva]

So like I said textbook active lurking

[Robbnva]

Creature is my strongest town read, I was wondering why robb didn't want to pressure him more.

He's probably going through be who I end up voting but the attempts to pressure crab has actually proven very useful. Crab and smitherines cracked under the pressure and that's something worth investigating. Crab has still done nothing since so it looks the me like he's caught and not sure how to proceed.

[Robbnva]

The idea was for a few people to put a vote on you and maybe get you to respond to those votes and put forth something useful. I feel like that's pretty self explanatory and it was worth a try

I don't know why he's questioning all these votes on him self when they are completely justified.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I got that

I see there's four votes on me now. I really can't argue against this wagon because it is concerning the strategy I was testing this game. I can't edit all my posts so hey fit another strategy and just saying "I'm town" won't convince anyone. I could try to justify my reasoning but I already tried that and that didn't work so what else can I do?

This post of crab's looks very town to me.

[Infinity 324]

Hey robb, how many people in this game were also in that game or crab's you linked earlier?

[Robbnva]

Yeah I got that

I see there's four votes on me now. I really can't argue against this wagon because it is concerning the strategy I was testing this game. I can't edit all my posts so hey fit another strategy and just saying "I'm town" won't convince anyone. I could try to justify my reasoning but I already tried that and that didn't work so what else can I do?

This post of crab's looks very town to me.

Why?

Why can't it be scum who's lost in what to do and hoping people let him off the hook? Have you seen him attempt to change and play better since getting voted? I haven't. If I thought he was incapable that's one thing but I don't think he is since he has shown he can develop good reads as town.

Right now he has no real reads. No reasons given really. He's just exsisting

As for members in that game vs here not sure. I'll look later

[Robbnva]

Looks like 3/4.

[Infinity 324]

That post is town because the tone is consistent with the emotion he's conveying and I think noob scum tend have a hard time faking emotion. Plus it's exactly the emotion I would expect from him there.

As far as I know, crab not developing real reads is part of his "new play style". It could seem like an excuse, but that also doesn't feel fake to me.

PEdit: Ok. So why would scum!crab change his play style that drastically when he knew multiple people in this game might notice and call him out for it? What I would do, and what I think is natural, is to try to emulate your town game as scum.

[Robbnva]

Yeah but first time scum usually don't know how to do that. It takes time

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but he's been playing completely and obviously differently.

[Robbnva]

He's playing like he's confused like he doesn't know what to do.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: crabman

So far I feel that this is creature's town game. His posts feel to me to be made in a manner scum wouldn't, which from my limited experience is more hesitant to start a wagon and draw attention to themselves.

So you think the scumteam in a 13-player game would be three people?

That sounds like he was trying to force a townslip out of himself.

I don't like eggman's posts so far in general and i'd like to see more defense/scum hunting from him. Until then, VOTE: Eggman

I agree that his posts are funny but not being that actively scum hunting doesn't mean he's scum. I for instance aren't that active but I'm still town.

Yeah, I'm reluctant to scum read Smithereen on two posts that he made. Two posts is not enough to judge anyone on.

He's posted more since then, what are your thoughts on the posts?

I think that the "what's your favorite desert question" was definitely on purpose. I don't know what way that points eggman, though.

Ok so, do you have any thoughts on Eggman beyond this? Or any player not named Creature? Your recent posts still have little to no real content.

----

As for the VT crumb I don't really see crumbing VT as alignment indicative. It seems kinda pointless as both town and scum, and I could see him doing it as either alignment. I still think crazy is a better wagon, which is why people should join me on it.

1- I'm have a minor townlean on smithereen now and I feel his attitude is what I expect from town.
2- I feel that eggman is acting odd and I feel that cruming VT is what scum would tell him to do day 1. It is possible that he just found out about crumbing and thought it would be a way to dissuade any suspicion against him. I'll be doing a chart later today on town and scum reads.

But if you are more suspicious of creature your vote should be on creature. You even thought he was lying about eggs games and I proved he was and you don't vote him?

That just strikes me as weird. Id like to see creature get a few more votes on him.

Sometimes more information can be gained by lynching someone who could flp either way, like in my last and first game the tojam lynch would provide valuable information no matter how he flipped, and it led to my investigation of LicketyQuickety, which ultimatly led to scums downfall.

Also, I feel Robbnva is either very set in his ways and doesn't like people not agreeing with him, or he is trying to push ways of thinking which points him as town.

So when I mean acting like atm, I mean more apprehensive to criticism. Last game when there was pressure put on him he was pretty cool and collected. This game he seems more on end. Some examples:

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

Are you even reading?

And now I'm not sure what to make of egg

unvote

Lots to think about now

What made you question your decision?

Pretty sure all of my reasonings have been posted. Finish catching up and if you still can't tell I'll point them out. I'm heading out to pick up my son.

This looks like an SvS interaction.

Here I feel he is trying to create confusion and noise.

crazy

Do you actually have any opinion on me vs Robbnva?

Again, noise.

So basically I get a tense vibe from him through his posts. He is definitely not like atm in that he asks questions like "how to vote", but I feel he's giving off the same feel atm gave off the first game I played with them.

This is not someone trying to look confused.

[Robbnva]

Ok I'll look at that later.

[Dragon of the West]

VOTE: MarioManiac4 I want to hear more from him and I really feel like the only way to do that is to start putting some votes on him. I'm on board with both the creature and crazy wagons though as they're still my main scumreads. I don't think they could both be part of the same scum team though. I'll go through their interactions in a bit to see if I'm wrong, but just from memory it seems like they've both taken decent cracks at each other

Interesting... why did you think this is true?

Which part of it? Getting you to give more or thinking they can't be on a scum team together?

The vote getting me to give more. I don't see how it would work.

The idea was for a few people to put a vote on you and maybe get you to respond to those votes and put forth something useful. I feel like that's pretty self explanatory and it was worth a try

But you literally said that it was just to pressure me in the public thread.

Yeah and if you didn't respond appropriately I'd consider lynching you. Congrats

[Eggman]

Crab. Your other game you did this big wall of players and explained your reads and put them in scummy order and stuff. You explained your reasons and you were pretty close to being right.

Why would you try a new strategy if that worked so good for you?

Fuck it

vote: crab

Somebody please investigate creature. Clearing that slot would make me sleep better

These two posts happened within a minute of each other. Food for thought.

It really stinks that two really good wagons mysteriously disassembled themselves in favour of a guy who merely looks fishy. If this wagon is a mislynch, at least it will be an informative mislynch.

From then through now, Smithereens still pushes for the Egg/Creature lynch. Somewhat admitting that Crabman looks scummy, but downplaying it to make his point. Also, seafood puns.

Smitherines. honest opinion does the person who made this post look like the person playing this game?

Excuse me for being skeptical but my games differ even more than his

when I'm town

. There was one game where I got removed and banned for a week as a townie. Are you going to scum read me because I'm acting completely different?

Slip, or just wishful thinking?

I think a lot of people abandoned the Eggman wagon earlier. He handled the pressure of all the votes on him well. While he's still a scum lean for me for now, he's not near my top. I think some others were reading him closer to null/town even. Creature still bothers me because of the blatant lies and shotty reasoning to back off the Eggman wagon so early. His reason was the crumb claim. While it's possible this really swayed him, his logic was completely faulty. That makes me feel like he was hoping for an Eggman lynch to get himself some town cred once egg flipped town. While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them. Especially with a few inactives that we're waiting to get replaced. That being said, the day can always end up going back to a lynch on creature after we've gotten more reads on everyone else

I've been ISOing everybody and:
- Eggman has crumbed VT, which I find very unlikely he'd do that as scum.
- There are 6 players scum reading him excluding me.

So I am no longer scumreading Eggman.

The "faulty" parts here are saying I crumbed when I never actually did (although I set it up) and jumping for the opinion of others. Is that what you saw, Dragon?

No, I didn't forget abut them, I was asked who I thought the scum team was I believe (or that's how I interpreted it), and that's who I think it is.

Are you still scumreading Eggman and Robbnva? If so, please explain your scumread on Robbnva because you haven't really touched on it much from what I can tell.

ffs you're mature af. If you want me to talk to you in the same way I'd talk to a challenged person, that's fine too.

What caused you to stop scum reading Eggman/Creature?
What caused you to move to Crazy?

I might try to explain later, right now I'm too busy feeding in league with mah boi norbert who sets francis on me as support viktor taking all my farm. feelsbadman

It's later.

@DotW:

Are you scumreading anyone but Creature or Eggman right now?

This post makes me feel better about Derek, for some reason.

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

Infinity

: What page were you on when you held these opinions on Creature, Robb, and Smithereens?

watching you Dragon~

O.o

What for? The big quotepost was by Creature.

Yes because that's not manipulative. That's just smart play. Cmon infinity you are a better player than this

This response is confusing. Is it town? Smart play? Are the two mutually exclusive? Robb?

Aw shit, I gotta go on a week long trip, thought this game would be faster than usual. Well it seems I have to leave on Saturday and will be back on Saturday. Rip

A one-week vacation? Have fun! Don't forget about us!

If you're so confident creature is scum, why aren't you voting him?

Cause there's plenty of time in the day and I've found one scum so I'm looking for the others.

Are you talking about Crabman or Creature here?

Do you have a reason you think it's more likely to come from scum or is it just experience

Reason. A player who is uninformed is likely to stick to a person who they've discovered is scum with a high degree of confidence. Moving off it simply shows how little profundity the discovery actually made on the player. If Rob's town, then he isn't too concerned about the town win con, and he clearly shows it. Otherwise he's scum.

In layman's terms, town tunnel their scumreads. From experience, I take Robb's side here: I've had scumreads but instead of acting on them then and there, tried to find the scumbuddy.

There is nothing weird about the fact that it's not normal for a town to not get hyped about finding a scum and just leave it be.

This post just feels like "If you're not me and don't have my reaction, you're scum". Not everybody will be a gold miner, Smithereens! Some will be paleontologists.
[This post is getting big, so I'll start a new one for pages 30+.]

[Eggman]

What do you guys think about the interactions between Infinity and Smithereens?

[Infinity 324]

Hi guys, been following the thread, here are my thoughts so far

Eggman - Looks like noobtown to me, I don't like how fast the wagon on him formed, and crumbing VT seems more like silly town than weird scum
Creature - Probably my strongest townread, he seems to be very open with his thoughts and actively scumhunting. His thoughts on leaving the egg wagon mirrored my thoughts at the time.
Dragon of the West - Also seems open, brings up good points and genuine-looking thoughts
atm - Probably confused town but I'm not sure
Dwlee - Really liked his activity early on so he's probably town, just wish he would stop being lazy
Derek - null. I like his pushes, but some of his posts don't seem to be doing very much and my gut says he might be scum
MarioManiac - null leaning scum for gut
F-oh-ex - Probably town because the depth of his analysis is more likely to come from town and his emotions seem genuine
crazycrab - I was scumreading him up until recently, but the thing about him trying to change his playstyle doesn't seem faked, and his comment along the lines of "I don't know what I can do to make you townread me" is very classic town frustration for being wagoned.
Robbnva - null leaning scum, it's kinda worrying that he hasn't done anything particularly towny yet since he's been very active. Also, his logic-based scumhunting style seems almost too easy--he's very experienced so he should know that town often uses bad logic, perhaps more than scum does.
Smithereens - null leaning town, for his aggressiveness. Something feels off about him to me, not sure what it is though

VOTE: MarioManiac let's do it.

Infinity

: What page were you on when you held these opinions on Creature, Robb, and Smithereens?

Was caught up. Robb and smith have since moved up in my reads, and derek has moved down since I re-ISO'd him

There is nothing weird about the fact that it's not normal for a town to not get hyped about finding a scum and just leave it be.

This post just feels like "If you're not me and don't have my reaction, you're scum". Not everybody will be a gold miner, Smithereens! Some will be paleontologists.

This is a really good point.

Eggman still town.