Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Robbnva]

1. No it's very clear he meant push the lynch through.
2. Yes that's exactly what I think pj was getting at. That's what "push the lynch through" typically means. The fact you get that is weird.
Side bar how can you possibly speak intelligently about what pj meant? You can't. Speaking for him is weird. Let pj defend his own words
3. What did I do to make you change your read? Went from compromise lynch to top 2 townie.

[Infinity 324]

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

[Dwlee99]

what does everyone think of fohex being possibly scum?

[Infinity 324]

I doubt it, his frustration for being called dumb seemed genuine, and in general his thoughts seem original and brings up quite a few good points (though annoyingly keeps tunneling on creature).

[Derek12]

I doubt it, his frustration for being called dumb seemed genuine

I'm not sure how this is alignment indicative? It's not as if being called dumb is suddenly less annoying if you're scum.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but dwlee said something about him being either dumb or scum, so it probably wouldn't upset scum

[Infinity 324]

Idiot tell not scum tell?

Jsyk, this

is

my first game outside of Road to Rome. Go ahead, be a condescending prick and call me an idiot.

[Dwlee99]

Yeah but dwlee said something about him being either dumb or scum, so it probably wouldn't upset scum

That is not what I said. I said that the post wasnt indicative of scum. I got "really mad" one time as scum because some people called me dumb or bad or something. It isnt AI

[Derek12]

Yeah Eggman's post was pretty bad but at least he has the excuse of it being 36 posts in

Yes, my post was so garbage because I RLed a lurker in my first post of the game while you were all shitposting for 4 pages. *claps slowly*

He was mad before Dwlee made that comment.

[Infinity 324]

Noobs usually have a hard time faking emotion like that.

The thing you quoted derek is just another example.

You guys could be right but I doubt it

[Derek12]

Why are you assuming that scum would have to fake that emotion?

[Derek12]

As this

Yeah but dwlee said something about him being either dumb or scum, so it probably wouldn't upset scum

Doesn't apply to the earlier posts.

[Dwlee99]

As this

Yeah but dwlee said something about him being either dumb or scum, so it probably wouldn't upset scum

Doesn't apply to the earlier posts.

it doesnt apply to that post either

[Dwlee99]

Subject: Newbie 1633: The Daily Show-A Retrospective - GAME OVER

@dwlee:

are you willing to die for this gut feeling

The point of town is to find scum no matter what and I don't think you understand this game. I suggest you join more newbie games in the future

Yea, I fricken am. And this is a newbie game. I specifically went to the newbie queue section. -_-

Dwlee's first game on site, playing as scum. Wow look at this GENUINE emotion oh boi so town

[Infinity 324]

Ok I see what you mean.

The part that Derek quoted would have to be faked, though, because derek was calling him scum for something. It also makes me believe he actually thought the first few pages were shitposting.

PEdit: I don't think that emotion is as convincing, but that's besides the point. You asked for my opinion, and I gave it. By no means is f-oh-ex town for sure

[petroleumjelly]

1.)

I think petroleum meant to say "scumread eggman" instead of "push the lynch through", and I think the distinction between those things is a nitpick.

I meant what I said.

2.)

Dragon of the West:

I play by considering everyone to be mafia at the start. Guilty until they convince me they're innocent

2) It's literally how I look at the game. I don't understand your argument of that is not how I play, because it is. Find the people i think must be town, and the rest are in a possible scum list. then widdle it down until I have the scum team. it's just another way to say process of elimination

Nope. Your posts show you hunting using scumreads, not eliminating based on townreads:

While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them.

My read on eggman has shifted towards a soft scumlean. I like the way he handled all of the votes on him.
I think robb is fairly town although I'm suspicious about him.
Crab seems lost the past couple days and his defensive posts didn't make much sense to me so that's a scumread.
The inactives make it tough because any of them could be scum but we have no way of reading that.
I have mixed feelings on atm. I don't want to say it's a null read, but it could go either way. He could be VI but that's the same way he played last game when he was scum so I don't like it.
Bottom line is not many people have seemed very towny up until this point

Main suspects being the 3 people that have had a wagon on them so far

I think a lot of people agreed aside from you and creature that it was a weird crumb to begin with(fohex and robb especially), so I don't think it's unreasonable that I originally disagreed and read that as a scum!egg move. But I realized the point you and creature made and agree it's possible for town!egg to do that. This made him no longer my strongest scumread, who is now mario, but egg is my 3rd

Perhaps the most telling reason for why you are not playing that way is the fact that you have called Creature "hilarious" for using such a process of elimination style:

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

Lol yup I find that hilarious

If you

really

played like everybody is scum unless proven otherwise, you would

also

have players who have never posted in your scumpool.

So the question is,

why

are you acting like you play with that mentality? I think the answer lies in the post you made the claim:

I don't like eggman's posts so far in general and i'd like to see more defense/scum hunting from him. Until then, VOTE: Eggman

I agree that his posts are funny but not being that actively scum hunting doesn't mean he's scum. I for instance aren't that active but I'm still town.

Doesn't mean he's scum, but I still want more from him. If you're gonna have weird feeling posts then you have to give me a reason to think you're town. I play by considering everyone to be mafia at the start. Guilty until they convince me they're innocent

You basically said it in order to justify keeping your vote on Eggman.

~

Unvote: Robbnva

Vote: Dragon of the West

I think you were scum trying to push through an Eggman lynch. I think if you were Town you would have shown at least

some

concern about Eggman being so close to L-1 (especially since you explained that there

was

a quick hammer vote in your first and only mafia game here); but because it was in your interests you chose to ignore it. You instead joining the crowd criticizing Eggman's "crumb."

And

while criticizing Eggman for breadcrumbing such a useless role, you effectively did the same with your mechanically useless Neighbor role two minutes later. You have since claimed it was not

meant

to be a breadcrumb, but there is no question that had you been forced to claim later in the game you have doubled-back to that post to support it.

~

I think a lot of people abandoned the Eggman wagon earlier. He handled the pressure of all the votes on him well. While he's still a scum lean for me for now, he's not near my top. I think some others were reading him closer to null/town even. Creature still bothers me because of the blatant lies and shotty reasoning to back off the Eggman wagon so early. His reason was the crumb claim. While it's possible this really swayed him, his logic was completely faulty.

That makes me feel like he was hoping for an Eggman lynch to get himself some town cred once egg flipped town.

While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them. Especially with a few inactives that we're waiting to get replaced. That being said, the day can always end up going back to a lynch on creature after we've gotten more reads on everyone else

I think the player who was

hoping

for an Eggman lynch was you. How

annoying

it must be to see somebody unvote the easy Day One lynch for "completely faulty" reasons.

~

I actually want to move on to a couple other players, but I really have to sleep. Hopefully will get there tomorrow night.

[Dragon of the West]

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

The two contradictions were how I treated an L-1 in my last game versus how I treated it in this game and how I "crumbed" neighbor after not liking how Eggman crumbed. I showed why both of these were not the case, yet you still want to claim that me being "contradictory" is the problem. I don't get your line of thinking if I've proven all of your and pj's points to be incorrect. You're only response has been along the lines of "even having the conversation is scummy, so disregard that we were wrong about everything we said. he's still scum anyway". It's such a bad vote and push I'm tempted to vote you back just for your complete absence of actual reasoning

[Dragon of the West]

1.)

I think petroleum meant to say "scumread eggman" instead of "push the lynch through", and I think the distinction between those things is a nitpick.

I meant what I said.

2.)

Dragon of the West:

I play by considering everyone to be mafia at the start. Guilty until they convince me they're innocent

2) It's literally how I look at the game. I don't understand your argument of that is not how I play, because it is. Find the people i think must be town, and the rest are in a possible scum list. then widdle it down until I have the scum team. it's just another way to say process of elimination

Nope. Your posts show you hunting using scumreads, not eliminating based on townreads:

While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them.

My read on eggman has shifted towards a soft scumlean. I like the way he handled all of the votes on him.
I think robb is fairly town although I'm suspicious about him.
Crab seems lost the past couple days and his defensive posts didn't make much sense to me so that's a scumread.
The inactives make it tough because any of them could be scum but we have no way of reading that.
I have mixed feelings on atm. I don't want to say it's a null read, but it could go either way. He could be VI but that's the same way he played last game when he was scum so I don't like it.
Bottom line is not many people have seemed very towny up until this point

Main suspects being the 3 people that have had a wagon on them so far

I think a lot of people agreed aside from you and creature that it was a weird crumb to begin with(fohex and robb especially), so I don't think it's unreasonable that I originally disagreed and read that as a scum!egg move. But I realized the point you and creature made and agree it's possible for town!egg to do that. This made him no longer my strongest scumread, who is now mario, but egg is my 3rd

Perhaps the most telling reason for why you are not playing that way is the fact that you have called Creature "hilarious" for using such a process of elimination style:

I am thinking the whole scum team is in {Akigoku, crazycrabman, MarioManiac4, Robbnva, Smithereens, stelo}

You're putting a person that has never posted onto the scum team? For real?

There is. He never posted. He's scum reading a vacant slot

Lol yup I find that hilarious

If you

really

played like everybody is scum unless proven otherwise, you would

also

have players who have never posted in your scumpool.

So the question is,

why

are you acting like you play with that mentality? I think the answer lies in the post you made the claim:

I don't like eggman's posts so far in general and i'd like to see more defense/scum hunting from him. Until then, VOTE: Eggman

I agree that his posts are funny but not being that actively scum hunting doesn't mean he's scum. I for instance aren't that active but I'm still town.

Doesn't mean he's scum, but I still want more from him. If you're gonna have weird feeling posts then you have to give me a reason to think you're town. I play by considering everyone to be mafia at the start. Guilty until they convince me they're innocent

You basically said it in order to justify keeping your vote on Eggman.

~

Unvote: Robbnva

Vote: Dragon of the West

I think you were scum trying to push through an Eggman lynch. I think if you were Town you would have shown at least

some

concern about Eggman being so close to L-1 (especially since you explained that there

was

a quick hammer vote in your first and only mafia game here); but because it was in your interests you chose to ignore it. You instead joining the crowd criticizing Eggman's "crumb."

And

while criticizing Eggman for breadcrumbing such a useless role, you effectively did the same with your mechanically useless Neighbor role two minutes later. You have since claimed it was not

meant

to be a breadcrumb, but there is no question that had you been forced to claim later in the game you have doubled-back to that post to support it.

~

I think a lot of people abandoned the Eggman wagon earlier. He handled the pressure of all the votes on him well. While he's still a scum lean for me for now, he's not near my top. I think some others were reading him closer to null/town even. Creature still bothers me because of the blatant lies and shotty reasoning to back off the Eggman wagon so early. His reason was the crumb claim. While it's possible this really swayed him, his logic was completely faulty.

That makes me feel like he was hoping for an Eggman lynch to get himself some town cred once egg flipped town.

While I think creature is my strongest scumread at the moment, I'm still suspicious of others and I think Robb is right to say we should use more of this day to put pressure on different people and get more ideas on them. Especially with a few inactives that we're waiting to get replaced. That being said, the day can always end up going back to a lynch on creature after we've gotten more reads on everyone else

I think the player who was

hoping

for an Eggman lynch was you. How

annoying

it must be to see somebody unvote the easy Day One lynch for "completely faulty" reasons.

~

I actually want to move on to a couple other players, but I really have to sleep. Hopefully will get there tomorrow night.

So if I have a group of players I think are town, which leaves a group of possible scum, of that group I'm not allowed to have a strongest scumread?
Secondly, I already explained that I was afraid of a

derp

hammer last game and that was the sole reason I unvoted in that situation. Are you all dumb enough to accidentally hammer and think you could unvote? I trusted you guys a bit more, which I've already said.
Thirdly, forced to claim it? why the hell would i need to claim neighbor? We already all agreed that it is in no way AI because both scum and town can be neighbors. Not only this, but I told you that it was just to get Robb's attention and it worked because he finally checked the neighbor thread and responded that night. So it was not a crumb for a claim
And no, I was not eager for a quickhammer. I think VT is a worthless crumb and I still think Creature seeing a crumb that even eggman admitted wasn't there is faulty reasoning

[F-oh-ex]

MM4 is somewhat of a townlean to me but that might stem from the fact I strongly scumread Creature and I don't see them as a duo. Compare and contrats with my scumread of crab who is mutually exclusive to be scum with Creature.


As per myself, I won't try to be the judge of my own case, but I find it pretty ridiculous that the most discussed post is my emotional reaction which wouldn't differ much between town!me and scum!me, judging by my experience in chat mafia.


petroleum's posts amount to catchup and then ridiculous tunnelling on Robbnva. To what end, to shift the topic or to undermine Robb's credibility? I fail to see how anyone would read Robb as scum. Post 1000 is pure tunnelling and nonsense. His "arguments" against Dragon are equally bad and I like the Dragon response under what little pressure petroleum by himself applied. Petroleum's a scumlean so far, however I want to be careful with that - when I would sub in, I'd always have trouble with getting my feet in the game and make terrible reads at first and get hung up on something that seemed valuable to me.
Not that this excuses terrible tunnelling and failed meta context.

Inifinity's first post, which is a list of reads, is not really AI. I don't like the reads there at all but I guess it's worth something that he listed there, we can compare that with what he writes later. Unlike petroleum, Inifinity is hyperactive, not sure what to make of that... this is probably NAI too since it could mean either way.

Post 696 sheeps Creature's metaread on atm. The general consensus was that this meta was trash IIRC.

Post 697 is a garbage nitpicking and trying to find scummy things where there are none.

Post 721 is gibberish. Weird logic you don't agree with to form conclusions that make sense? Just from that sounds like a sound logic which you have problem understanding for some reason.

Do you think scum bus their buddy and then back off when they get ~4 votes?

What you're saying kinda makes sense, but not if creature is scum. I don't even think robb is giving himself an out to not vote creature closer to deadline.

IIRC Creature was the first person to vote for Eggman. You say that scum wouldn't bus like that and back off. Putting one vote on your partner is not bussing. And yes, scum would probably back off when the unexpected wagon forms. While I'm not sold on the fact that this is what happened, what you wrote to justify townread on Creature makes little to no sense.

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

Wait, what? Make him crack? Wasn't he your strongest townread?

It's either town or scum that is quite good at faking emotion

Emotions are pretty NAI in forum mafia, at least to me. They're harder to fake in chat when you have ~5-10 seconds to respond but here? Given that most of the emotion spectrum aren't AI, it's very easy to fake it just enough to get there.

I know contractions are more likely to come from town (yes that is true in general DotW), I just don't like your response to it

I'm townreading you anyway so ehh

Contradictions are not the same as evolution of reads/opinions...

Inifinity's read on Dragon shifts like a sinus function.

Post 918 is horrible. He suddenly pops in with Derek. He townread crab quite evidently and now wants to lynch him because he's a "weaker town read"? Lynching a weaker town read sounds like something you'd do by process of elimination if you townread literally everyone... what.

@petroleum: Do you think some of the point again robb could be explained by a very different playstyle as opposed to him being scum? Cause I'm not really seeing the scum motivation for his actions

About the Creature "lie" - even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

So you're saying that because Creature blatantly lied, it's a towntell? That's a shitty WIFOM at best and a pathetic buddying at worst.

And why the shift on Robb, trying to butter up to him?

[F-oh-ex]

Do you think scum bus their buddy and then back off when they get ~4 votes?

What you're saying kinda makes sense, but not if creature is scum. I don't even think robb is giving himself an out to not vote creature closer to deadline.

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

It's either town or scum that is quite good at faking emotion

I know contractions are more likely to come from town (yes that is true in general DotW), I just don't like your response to it

I'm townreading you anyway so ehh

@petroleum: Do you think some of the point again robb could be explained by a very different playstyle as opposed to him being scum? Cause I'm not really seeing the scum motivation for his actions

About the Creature "lie" - even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

I'll ISO Crab and Smith and post my revised reads list.

[F-oh-ex]

Bah, I accidentally quoted the bunch of posts again, these quotes shouldn't be there. I still suck with forum management.

[Robbnva]

MM4 is somewhat of a townlean to me but that might stem from the fact I strongly scumread Creature and I don't see them as a duo

why not?

[Dwlee99]

Im going to iso map infinity.

[Eggman]

So, based on what I've seen of other people's opinions, it seems that you consider Creature to mutually be scum with either Crabman or me.
VOTE: Crabman,

FoS: Smithereens (un-FoS Crabman)

I propose lynching Crabman today, seeing how he flips, and if he's town lynch me or Creature tomorrow.
Because I don't get the cases on Infinity and Dragon, which also (to me) seem a little OMGUS-y (didn't Infinity call out DotW in the first place?)

[Infinity 324]

His point was that what dragon was doing was contradictory, whether dragon is pushing an immediate lynch or not the point is the same. It's pretty clear.

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

The two contradictions were how I treated an L-1 in my last game versus how I treated it in this game and how I "crumbed" neighbor after not liking how Eggman crumbed. I showed why both of these were not the case, yet you still want to claim that me being "contradictory" is the problem. I don't get your line of thinking if I've proven all of your and pj's points to be incorrect. You're only response has been along the lines of "even having the conversation is scummy, so disregard that we were wrong about everything we said. he's still scum anyway". It's such a bad vote and push I'm tempted to vote you back just for your complete absence of actual reasoning

I never said that you being contradictory was the problem, I said that the contradiction about the crumb was the thing petroleum was pointing out. Stop pretending like I don't have any actual reasons. You overexplained yourself by stating thing that weren't necessary to respond to the point petroleum was trying to make, and you gave a explanation for the unvote of eggman that doesn't look genuine. You seriously didn't consider eggman's crumb as coming from town until creature and I pointed it out? Just sounds like a reason to jump off the eggman wagon as it died down. After that, you made a huge deal about me calling your post scummy and made assumptions about why I did that, which reads as scum desperate to defend themselves.