Mini 1805 [C'est fini!]

[Infinity 324]

Is this supposed to be a case dude? You're pointing out a bunch of things that you don't understand or disagree with in my posts.

IIRC Creature was the first person to vote for Eggman. You say that scum wouldn't bus like that and back off. Putting one vote on your partner is not bussing. And yes, scum would probably back off when the unexpected wagon forms. While I'm not sold on the fact that this is what happened, what you wrote to justify townread on Creature makes little to no sense.

First of all, that isn't really part of my argument for why creature is town, more like why creature-egg doesn't make a ton of sense. Second of all, I see what you're saying about creature perhaps not expecting a wagon to form, but I think it would be better to give weak reasoning to avoid that, and 196 has some pretty strong reasoning for so early in the game. I doubt scum would fail in trying to get people

not

to sheep them.

@Robb don't you think it would be helpful to pressure creature more to try and make him crack?

Wait, what? Make him crack? Wasn't he your strongest townread?

Well he wasn't robb's townread...

Post 918 is horrible. He suddenly pops in with Derek. He townread crab quite evidently and now wants to lynch him because he's a "weaker town read"? Lynching a weaker town read sounds like something you'd do by process of elimination if you townread literally everyone... what.

Ok, I do have a lot of townreads...

So you're saying that because Creature blatantly lied, it's a towntell? That's a shitty WIFOM at best and a pathetic buddying at worst.

....

even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

If this is WIFOM, every towntell is WIFOM.

And why the shift on Robb, trying to butter up to him?

I've already said this, you push on me out of the blue makes no sense coming from scum when no one else suspected me.

[F-oh-ex]

MM4 is somewhat of a townlean to me but that might stem from the fact I strongly scumread Creature and I don't see them as a duo

why not?

MM4 is in the serious lynchpool and I don't see Creature bussing like that at this point when it's not necessary.

So, based on what I've seen of other people's opinions, it seems that you consider Creature to mutually be scum with either Crabman or me.
VOTE: Crabman,

FoS: Smithereens (un-FoS Crabman)

I propose lynching Crabman today, seeing how he flips, and if he's town lynch me or Creature tomorrow.
Because I don't get the cases on Infinity and Dragon, which also (to me) seem a little OMGUS-y (didn't Infinity call out DotW in the first place?)

Just to be clear, because I think you referred to me among others, by saying "Creature and Crab are mutually exclusive scumreads" I mean that I have a scumread on both of them but I do NOT see them as partners so one of them flipping scum would be a towntell for the other one in my eyes.

[F-oh-ex]

No, what I said doesn't amount to "every towntell is WIFOM". You're trying to pull a reductio ad absurdum on me. The "he outright lied and scum has no reason to do that so he's town" is a WIFOM at best because it's a particular example of a "that play was so shitty that it must be coming from town, scum would be careful enough not to do it" set.

[Infinity 324]

Give an example of something that's a towntell for you.

[Infinity 324]

(other than things that are hard to fake)

[Eggman]

Just to be clear, because I think you referred to me among others, by saying "Creature and Crab are mutually exclusive scumreads" I mean that I have a scumread on both of them but I do NOT see them as partners so one of them flipping scum would be a towntell for the other one in my eyes.

Yes. So if Crabman flips scum, then we can call Creature town.
(Of course, I forgot about MM4. If that lynch gets traction, I'll support it, because Smithereens.)

[F-oh-ex]

I have listed quite a few things I regarded as towntells while reading people. And every action in Mafia can be reduced to some extend of WIFOM if it's not hard to fake, that's exactly what "not hard to fake for the other side" implies. And whether or not something is a towntell largely depends on the context of situation and of the person considered.

[Infinity 324]

And every action in Mafia can be reduced to some extend of WIFOM if it's not hard to fake

This is exactly my point.

The context here is the site meta of mafiascum, and the person in question is someone who is not ballsy to the point of being stupid. Directly lying doesn't make sense at all, because it will clearly draw suspicion to you. When the site meta changes, my opinion on that will change, but a lot of very good logic and tells can be waved away with WIFOM if you use that argument.

[F-oh-ex]

Hasn't it occured to you that it might have been just a big blunder?

[F-oh-ex]

You imply that scum!Creature wouldn't be ballsy enough to blatantly lie about it but it might have been just a slip up, e.g. Creaure might not have even checked Egg's post and instead immediately affirmed the crumb.

[Infinity 324]

Scum generally like to check their facts more than town, but it is a possibility. Given creature's play so far this game, I highly doubt it though.

PEdit: Wait I thought we were talking about how creature said egg was mislynch bait

Creature clearly believes, and I agree with him on this to an extent, that eggman meant to crumb and the dessert question wouldn't make sense otherwise.

[Sméagol]

I wasn't going to extend the deadline for replacements, but I will for the site being down. 1 day extension. Vote count tomorrow, I'm off to bed.
Deadline is

08-07-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-07-08 00:00:00)).

[F-oh-ex]

Do RQSes always make sense? They didn't in my Newbie games.

There's a difference between Creature's belief and yours. You believe it after Egg acknowledged he meant to crumb it, Creature immediately affirmed that the crumb WAS there.

[F-oh-ex]

V

o

t

e

c

o

u

n

t

Day 1 #14

Smithereens [

1

]:

Eggman

Creature [

2

]:

F-oh-ex

/

crazycrabman

MarioManiac4 [

3

]:

Dragon of the West

/

Creature

/

Robbnva

Robbnva [

1

]:

petroleumjelly

Dragon of the West [

1

]:

Infinity 324

Derek12 [

1

]:

MarioManiac4

Infinity 324 [

1

]:

Dwlee99

Eggman [

1

]:

atm487

crazycrabman [

1

]:

Derek12

Abstaining [1]:

Smithereens

There are 13 active players.
Absolute majority is

7

.
Majority has

not

been reached.

Previous vote count
Placeholder

Spoiler: Current player list

[01]

Smithereens

[02]

Creature

[03]

MarioManiac4

[04]

Robbnva

[05]

Dwlee99

[06]

petroleumjelly

[07]

Dragon of the West

[08]

Derek12

[09]

Infinity 324

[10]

F-oh-ex

[11]

Eggman

[12]

atm487

[13]

crazycrabman

Spoiler: Days & nights

Day 1

Deadline is

07-07-2016 00:00:00 CEST

((expired on 2016-07-07 00:00:00)).

Quoting the last votecount so that we know where we stand. I'll ISO Crab and Smith now as promised, since I was unable to do it earlier due to server crash.

[Dwlee99]

22 hours, 54 minutes).

[F-oh-ex]

My townread on Smith stands strengthened, his 1v1 banter with Robb seems to me like Town vs Town.

[Creature]

PEDIT: VT. It's why I did the RQS: "vanilla" ice cream

In F-oh-ex's eyes, this sentence doesn't exist.

[F-oh-ex]

...seriously?
This is not the crumb. I have stated this numerous times by now and you still can't comprehend that. Crumb would be if he actually answered his question with "vanilla" response. That would be crumbing VT. Anyone who believes the crumb referred to the fact that he posed the RQS so it makes sense he was going to answer it the way he claimed he would. You, however, claimed he HAD CRUMBED. No, he had not. Eggman himself said HE WAS GOING TO BUT DIDN'T.

Also, Dwlee99 was the first one to respond along the lines of "lol wut there was no crumb at all lol", and not the only one, I wasn't even the person who pointed it out and not the blind man you're looking for.

[Creature]

It's a hint anyway and I have my reasons to think it's a crumb.

[Creature]

If you don't understand, I am sorry, but there's something in that sentence and you can't just assume I magically saw the crumb.

[F-oh-ex]

Lol how did i go from null to scumlean?

You said yourself that you had enough posts that you shouldn't be in null. After reviewing your many posts, I believe you fit in the scumlean category.

That doesn't count as reasoning.

All I've done this last few pages is criticize you and Robbnva, why would that change your mind and make you vote for me? Are you uncomfortable with criticism?

You lampshaded yourself that you haven't really done anything constructive.

okay actually the push on creature for putting someone who hasn't posted in his possible scum team is total bull crap.
I've done things like that before, where I say the scum team is in:
blahblahblah
not necessarily because everyone in that list I am scum reading super hard, but rather because I am using process of elimination and removing everyone I am town reading.
VOTE: crazy

I agree, he push on creature for that was stupid, which is why i wasn't a part of it.

Unrelated question: Why the vote on me?

I feel there is enough evidence to VOTE: Creature

I smell inconsistency.

I think I already discussed once that his "reads" on Dwlee99 are bad and why they are.

You see? Nothing I can do. I guess i'll ride this one out...

Idk why you even have a strategy.

Ugh now I'm really starting to think Derek has a point about crab

I'm going to assume you mean first-time scum and not crabs are the worst seafood

Funny thing is is that I haven't experienced either eating crabs or being scum...

Gah, filler.

I believe that Creature and some lurker is scum. I believe creature is scum because his attitude fits that of scum and his posting style. This is a result of a flawed strategy so take it with a grain of salt. I know you are going to say t re-read the game with a different mindset but anything different besides the one I have used and am using right now would be lying to myself.

"some lurker is scum" *slowly claps*

Then about 2-3 posts of crab saying he was busy and he'll catch up.

My scumread on crab stands.

[F-oh-ex]

It's a hint anyway and I have my reasons to think it's a crumb.

"I have my reasons". Oh, do share them!

And I don't think you magically saw it. I think you either lied or blundered stupidly without doublechecking Egg's posts.

[Creature]

Tell me what was the intention of the RQS and why he decided to point it while claiming then.

[F-oh-ex]

The updated reads go as following:
Strong townreads - Robbnva, Smithereens
Townreads - Dwlee99, Dragon, Derek12 [The D-team?], atm (possible subject to policy later)
Townleans - MarioManiac4
Scumleans - petroleumjelly, Inifinity 324 [aka sub-in squad]
Scumreads [in that order] - Creature, Eggman, crazycrab (mutually exclusive to be scum with Creature)

[Creature]

wtf

If you're townreading atm487, why you want to policy lynch him later?