New York 196: My Game, My Flavor Mafia (Mafia Win)

[implosion]

If I can get the motivation I also might formally case Mirhawk since at least one person was asking for it.

[podoboq]

However I'm still going to vote Performer.

He's been a wallflower this entire game in terms of gamesolving, no solid stances because all of his stances are so flexible that they can switch at any time for any reason. He does not commit to anything that he can't weasel out of. If you don't believe me, read his ISO.

That is all.

VOTE: Performer

Is this seriously it?

[Wake1]

A

Dunnstral/Titus

lynch would yield so much information it's not even funny.

You don't have to follow me if you don't want to, but I think better wagons would be on either of those two.

Let's see how people react then.

[Titus]

Pododboq if you're Town and you want to live, follow me. I need you to come in here and be more active—at least with me—and share more of your thoughts on this game.

I'll be waiting for you to post.

Honesty time!

This game has taken a back seat to just about everything else I'm doing, because I am super demoralized having to play this game with the incredibly fun suck that is Titus's mason gambit. It's bad play, and the way she's treated other people I consider disrespectful, unsportsmanlike, and unsettling to the point that it made me want to replace out. Instead of doing that, I've decided to just read, refrain from posting often, and only jump in if I need to dodge a prod or if there's something that's legit worth discussing that I think nobody else is going to bring up.

There have been two RL days since day 2 started. Most of it has been nothing. I still don't see any case on Performer (WHY IS NOBODY ACTUALLY EXPLAINING THEIR SCUMREAD ON PERFORMER) or Mirhawk (WHY), so I'm just sitting back watching. Plus, my biggest problem in games like this has usually been talking too much. So I'm trying out being quiet. Especially since I was a huge townread of other players, I thought backing off and letting other people have the spotlight would be a good idea.

People are giving Zach/Titus/Dunn way too much power, and at least one of them is pretty stupid, and at least two have lied to us to our faces repeatedly with the Mason lie. Now we're forced to believe that the only kill Night 1 was conveniently by Dunn, the Town '1-Shot' Vig who killed Lapsa. Yeah, no other kills at all. We can't trust Dunn because he already lied to us for over a hundred posts. A thousand even if that's how long the Mason turd gambit went. This Titus is machiavellian, plain and simple. Here I am Town as hell and she keeps twisting my words and telling me that I'm saying things that I'm not, and frankly I remember this from the games we were in where she was Scum.

She's acting that way to destroy Town morale. It's obvious.

If you are Town and you realize I'm Town, work with me on every single issue on this game from this point on and stay active. We need to not allow the lines of communication to break down, and if other players are receptive to listening and sharing we should have them join as well. If we create this Townbloc where we defend each other and stay in constant communication, it'll look insanely suspicious if Scum dared try to target any of us (well, not me, because we'd both be dead).

I'm not convinced by the Performer/implosion/mirhawk cases. Just, no. Scum already lost someone so now they're bound and determined to not see it happen again. Why do you think they're constantly going out of their way to NOT listen? It's blatantly obvious. And Scum thinks writing me off as obvTown but not listening to anything I have to say will placate me somehow, as if that's ever worked.

Engagement is extremely important, so with that posts do come. That's part of the game. The game already has 130 pages, so being real active and participating isn't going to change that one whit. You're better up stepping up to the plate and showing me that you care and that you want to find Scum just as much as I do. Let's work together, and make some changes before we're picked off one by one, exactly how Scum wants it. I really hope implosion and mirhawk are listening and are intent on surviving if they're Town.

Zach/Dunn/Titus shade here. Notice how he's saying a naturally occurring group of people townreading each other is bad. This is an indirect defense of the Performer wagon, as it is the only place where the three of us agreed. The place where the three of us agreed yesterday was Vedith. He's calling all who disagree with him as stupid or scum.

Scum already were lynched (notice how Wake uses lost someone language). If we want to keep lynching scum, the smart play is to keep doing the same thing. Not attacking the town who got us there and plugging ears to anything else.

Scum have to shake up this game AND foster division between Dunn myself and Zach.

[podoboq]

Scum already were lynched (notice how Wake uses lost someone language). If we want to keep lynching scum, the smart play is to keep doing the same thing. Not attacking the town who got us there and plugging ears to anything else.

Honestly, I see this, and it's humbling, and part of the reason I just wanted to shut my mouth and wait for day 2. I believe that what happened was a fluke, but I have no way of proving it, and I could be wrong. Instead of standing around shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!" I'm just gonna hold my "The end is nigh" sign and sit in a corner and wait for the inevitable.

If people want to have real discussion, and

explain

their reads, I'm here to listen and talk to.

[Wake1]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

AGar

~ Yes/No

Airick10

~ Yes/No

Almost50

~ Yes/No

Beeboy

~ Yes/No

Boem_u_dusi

~ Yes/No

Dunnstral

~ Yes/No

implosion

~ Yes/No

Mirhawk

~ Yes/No

PeregrineV

~ Yes/No

Performer

~ Yes/No

podoboq

~ Yes/No

shannon

~ Yes/No

Titus

~ Yes/No

Transcend

~ Yes/No

Varsoon

~ Yes/No

Vedith

~ Yes/No

Zachstralkita

~ Yes/No

[podoboq]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

podoboq

~

Yes

/No

[Titus]

Wake, you might as well put a neon sign that says desperate. Implosion Dunn and Zach have all directly said they do not care to lynch me. By inference most of the game doesn't. My wagon is stalled for a reason. It's because I am obvious town who pulled a gambit most deem to be shitty that I felt I had no choice on. Several others have stated townreads.

Move on. Assuming Dunn and I are town, how do you read the game?

[Zachstralkita]

However I'm still going to vote Performer.

He's been a wallflower this entire game in terms of gamesolving, no solid stances because all of his stances are so flexible that they can switch at any time for any reason. He does not commit to anything that he can't weasel out of. If you don't believe me, read his ISO.

That is all.

VOTE: Performer

Is this seriously it?

I was in the middle of replying then the internet fucked. I didn't have my " please Wake and podo " receptors on otherwise I would have done some heavy paragraphs and quotes. If town and you looked at Performer's behavior Day 1 and found no fault I cannot dissuade you. Believing you are scum I obviously could not do this anyway

Titus sorry in advance if your lynch happens. I've said multiple times on Day 1 why you and Dunnstral are both town relentlessly. The horsies have been led to water but I cannot make them drink.

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, join my Townbloc please.

Eh, there's one way you can prove you're absolutely without a doubt town to me.
It involves last night's actions, btw.

[podoboq]

Believing you are scum I obviously could not do this anyway

Wait, you actually think I'm scum? I thought you were just voting me for bullshit "why the hell not" reasons.

[Zachstralkita]

Believing you are scum I obviously could not do this anyway

Wait, you actually think I'm scum? I thought you were just voting me for bullshit "why the hell not" reasons.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm not surprised at that.


Varsoon can you please tell me why originally Titus would claim masons with Dunn TO SAVE DUNN if only Titus was scum? Does that make sense from a scum perspective? You said Dunn was fine today.

And in the fucking parallel universe where Dunn IS scum, why would he claim vigilante when he could have just left it for the town to speculate about Lapsa's death? Is there something hard-coded into your DNA that says dumb gambits like the fake mason claim have to be scum?

And does Wake's town bloc bullshit not look like he's just trying to discredit myself, Dunn and Titus in every way possible, please tell me this.

Transcend, please hop in the front seat.

[Varsoon]

Actually, as far as I can understand, I can confirm two other players as town, but it would take those other players to be willing to out themselves, which, as far as I understand this setup, may not be the best idea.

I believe the vig claim, though. At the very least I have very good reason to believe the claimed extra kill is actually an extra kill.

So, really, before anyone gets lynched, they really need to claim, because I could legitimately just say, "No, that guy is actually town."

P-EDIT:
@Zach: Either because they are actual partners OR because Titus was gambitting to win town favor by protecting a player she knew was town and likely to be wagoned early/weak. As scum, it's a popular tactic to chainsaw the village idiot.

[Zachstralkita]

But I defend the VI and I'm town. I obviously get that it's good for scum to do but can some people not get that, you know mislynches are a BAD thing?

And please Dunnstral wasn't the VI. I was the closest thing to that. People were just voting Dunnstral because the way he plays indicates scum to a lot of people.

[Zachstralkita]

Titus said Dunn was stupid town but it's not because he's unintelligent. I think it's because with every game you play there's a set of new players and when you're scumhunting you need to look at the perspectives of those players first and foremost and get accustomed to the social interaction that you will have to break into as the game progresses. Dunn is not antisocial but Dunn likes to be Dunn and not give a fuck what anyone else says ( like I do ) and if someone is gut town to him it's pretty hard to convince him otherwise. Dunn is also very satirical like me but a lot of people think shit he says in jest is serious. These words probably dont make sense atm

[Wake1]

Actually, as far as I can understand, I can confirm two other players as town, but it would take those other players to be willing to out themselves, which, as far as I understand this setup, may not be the best idea.

I believe the vig claim, though. At the very least I have very good reason to believe the claimed extra kill is actually an extra kill.

So, really, before anyone gets lynched, they really need to claim, because I could legitimately just say, "No, that guy is actually town."

We need to hear more on this please.

[Boem_u_dusi]

Willing to lynch Titus/Dunnstral? Titus no. Dunnstral hell no.

[Wake1]

Willing to Lynch Titus/Dunnstral Day 2?

(If you're playing please answer with 'Yes' or 'No.')

AGar

~ Yes/No

Airick10

~ Yes/No

Almost50

~ Yes/No

Beeboy

~ Yes/No

Boem_u_dusi

~ Yes/

No

Dunnstral

~ Yes/No

implosion

~ Yes/No

Mirhawk

~ Yes/No

PeregrineV

~ Yes/No

Performer

~ Yes/No

podoboq

~

Yes

/No

shannon

~ Yes/No

Titus

~ Yes/No

Transcend

~ Yes/No

Varsoon

~ Yes/No

Vedith

~ Yes/No

Zachstralkita

~ Yes/No

[Titus]

Wake, want some help with your waste of time. Zach said no, Dunn says no, I say no, implosion says no, boem says no. Those are outright refusals. Why can't you just admit you are wrong and stop fucking spamming.

[Titus]

Beeboy is also likely in the no camp. Vedith is dead scum. I am pretty sure Airlick townreads me.

[implosion]

implosion says no

dingdingding

Vedith is dead scum.

lol.

[beeboy]

No for Titus, I am null reading Dunnstral so no for him as well.

[beeboy]

I will read up later.

[Varsoon]

No. I'm not going to elaborate. The people I can confirm should know who they are. Especially one of them.

[implosion]

Alright. Case on Mirhawk's ISO, up until post 1000. podoboq and maybe others were asking for it. I'll get to the rest of the ISO later, I don't want this post

too

big. I've already mentioned that I find his first few posts off so we'll skip those. Note additionally that there's plenty of null posts in his ISO but really nothing at all that has rang town to me so far to any extent, in contrast to, again, the vast majority of the player list.

Spoiler:

Catching up.

ummm town wouldnt type a post to stand out, that outs attention on them and away from hunting actual scum. ... so it sounds like you are insinuating that he is scum. i think it could be that you are scum pushing against an early mislynch.

Again how am I pushing against a mislynch? Especially if I'm insinuating that he's scum?

You're looking for a reason to call what I said scummy, but I think you can't think of one.

Unvote
Vote: sick

This feels like wanting to OMGUS. It's just a mediocre vote. The asking questions towards him and then voting him also feels like a sort of disjoint between Mirhawk thinking that he's just misunderstanding sickofit, and Mirhawk thinking that he understands what sickofit is saying and that it's scummy.

Seriously you guys need to stop talking so friggin much. I'm never going to catch up at this rate.

Because I'm like twenty pages behind I'm probably going to comment on a bunch of stuff that's already been addressed but whatever.

Preemptive "hey don't judge me for doing this." Indicates a mindset of caring more about how he is read than about obtaining accurate reads. Also implying that commenting on stuff that has "already being addressed" isn't valuable because obviously, if it's been addressed, then there's nothing else new to say on it? The tone and content of this post both feel off. Like, I don't see it as being part of a townie's approach to the game that they don't or shouldn't need to comment on or understand things that have "already been addressed."

I dunno, 175 could very well be scum looking for an easy target.

I doubt it.

Depending on how you look at it it's maybe advocating a policy lynch a little bit, but I'm not really seeing that as a serious comment.

I find that strange as well, imp saying he is close to townreading you

+1

I agree, it stood out to me as well.

That's not a scum slip any way you slice it

Ja

^^ This is the kind of annoying non-content I am talking about. How does this help town in any plausible way? How is it anything more than noise that is designed to annoy, confuse, take up space, or break up the flow of conversation?

If you are town and you think this is helping, you are the weirdest townie I've ever met and I don't think your loss would be devastating. If you're scum, even better, we can lynch with impunity. I didn't really consider 'lynch the annoying person' as a policy lynch, but I guess it is and I'm happy if that becomes our policy at this point.

This is ironic considering the content of the posts you've made thus far.

Also, policy lynches are stupid.

Catchup through 668: reeks of catching up with the intent of being caught up rather than catching up with the intent of determining who is scum based on the content that has been posted. Only reads he gives or implies based on the content are scum on Zach, town on Boem, and he gives a lot of noncommittal posts. At the end of it he effectively gives a scumread on Zach, a scumread on shannon and a weak scumread on Transcend. These feel kind of phoned in/underjustified. I see the justification for the Zach read (terrible as the justification is), but the justification for shannon seems to be that "The only thing she's done is complain about Zach's posting style." Which is not a justification for a scumread. And the read on Transcend is preempted basically by just a bunch of eyerolling at his posts. It just feels like overall content for the sake of content rather than the sake of scumhunting. I guess the catchup isn't strongly scummy but it feels off in the way of the scumhunting just not really feeling genuine to me. It feels like his content is mostly questions that aren't actually that useful in finding scum.

Highlighted here are some of his posts from the catchup that are commenting on things without taking stances. Again, he does take stances during the catchup but only minimally until the end.

His alive presence is interfering greatly with my scumhunting activities, not to mention he contributes worthless reads to boot

and no fake dayvigs either dont tease me. if you're in this setup then i greatly implore you to use your ability for the greater good

It would help if you avoided rank hypocrisy Zach. You want me to unvote you because it won't go anywhere but Lapsa unvoted me for the same reason, you object.

The difference is:

1) I'm town

2) You're scum

You like that one? Dunnstral taught me.

Am I to read this as your reads suck because of him? Because that's what I'm getting from it.

Also calling for dayvigs on people who you don't think are scum is terrible fucking play.

Another mental disconnect.

"terrible fucking play" is what you accuse someone you think is town-but-bad of doing. It is not what you accuse your

primary scumread

of doing.

Anyone have meta on Titus doing Mason gambits?

No but I'd put my level of trust in that being a legit claim somewhere around fifteen percent.

Hrm, strike that. They obviously have daytalk.

This post. This post reminded me that GiF mentioned whether or not scum have daytalk, and made me think that if they don't have daytalk, then this might almost be a townslip. But they do have daytalk. It seems REALLY likely to me that Mirhawk saw the mason claim gambit and was (as scum) trying to figure out whether or not they were fake, and then realized "oh wait, we have daytalk - maybe their claim could actually be legit if they also have daytalk... hmmm..." or something along those lines. I won't say that townies have no reason to figure out whether or not the mason claims are an actual claim shortly after they claimed, but I don't think it's particularly town motivated to dig very deep to try to figure it out that early. My speculation on Varsoon's "softclaim" for example, I thought was a very obvious thing. I don't think this degree of speculation is that likely from town.