Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[Ranger]

Btd, if you were anything other than consistent mislynch bait I'd be all over you for that vote. As it is... I dunno. I still hate it.

Hypocrisy, thy name is mhsmith.

You're attacking BTD6_maker for something that you, ironically, by virtue of the attack, are yourself doing: literally every point you make in there applies to your stance on me compared to your stance on BTD6.

Honestly, I'm not real sure why Ranger hasn't already been lynched.

Well don't blame me, I tried to help. Still didn't go through.

[Ranger]

UNVOTE:

Do you know what this is?
This is, quite frankly, the most blatant sucking up in the history of scum sucking up.

mhsmith has been going on long spews about why I am scum, bringing up many, many various points for why I am scum. He has had no problem with the wagon. He has had no problem with a player like Xkfyu placing me at L-1. He has had no problem with Titus giving intent to hammer. He has held no problem with anything in it.

But the MOMENT, absolute MOMENT, we get PantherPunt's 1006, he immediately unvotes, as if everything else didn't matter. No "I think that might be wrong", no attempt to convince PantherPunt, no reason for backing off.
It's, blatantly, appeasement.

[mhsmith0]

@ranger: you were pinged really hard by iv's "ranger or m&m I'd likely scum". Why does btd6's even lazier reprisal of this (and this is the like third time they've done it too) draw no interest or comment from you?

Well for a start: IV flipped town.

So the philosophical basis for your read goes away entirely because it was wrong once? I mean, I get the idea that you wouldn't want to "100%" it again, but why does it swing that drastically from "100% scum" to "meh whatever"?

[mhsmith0]

UNVOTE:

Do you know what this is?
This is, quite frankly, the most blatant sucking up in the history of scum sucking up.

mhsmith has been going on long spews about why I am scum, bringing up many, many various points for why I am scum. He has had no problem with the wagon. He has had no problem with a player like Xkfyu placing me at L-1. He has had no problem with Titus giving intent to hammer. He has held no problem with anything in it.

But the MOMENT, absolute MOMENT, we get PantherPunt's 1006, he immediately unvotes, as if everything else didn't matter. No "I think that might be wrong", no attempt to convince PantherPunt, no reason for backing off.
It's, blatantly, appeasement.

Actually it was "I'm about to go on a like 10 hour flight, panther made an interesting point that I want to think over, and I don't want a hammer while I'm completely unavailable".

[mhsmith0]

Btd, if you were anything other than consistent mislynch bait I'd be all over you for that vote. As it is... I dunno. I still hate it.

Hypocrisy, thy name is mhsmith.

You're attacking BTD6_maker for something that you, ironically, by virtue of the attack, are yourself doing: literally every point you make in there applies to your stance on me compared to your stance on BTD6.

Honestly, I'm not real sure why Ranger hasn't already been lynched.

Well don't blame me, I tried to help. Still didn't go through.

Citations needed on all four points please.

1) implied "if ranger DOES reply then never mind"
2) writes it in a way designed CLEARLY to blame me if ranger flips town, while basically just sleeping part of my read on her
3) naked "well one of them is wolf" bit
4) slides right in to the l-2 slot from someone who's been bandwagoning all game

[mhsmith0]

Honestly, I'm not real sure why Ranger hasn't already been lynched.

Well don't blame me, I tried to help. Still didn't go through.

To clarify, did you actually WANT to get lynched? If so, what were you trying to achieve?

[Ranger]

Speaking of that post, though...

I don't think Ranger is scum here for a very simple reason. She's not pushing an agenda.

I hate you.
Like, seriously hate you.
The moment I saw you come in, I was like, "Why couldn't he have replaced DGB? Then I wouldn't need to sort him!"
But you didn't. You replaced Kappy's slot. So I do. And I've got the mixed emotions going, like, the one moment, thinking this is you as town being able to detect the difference between my town game and my scum game, which I want to believe because I definitely want to think you are a competent town player and it wasn't just a fluke, but the next moment, I keep thinking out of fear that you're scum about to SERIOUSLY burn me and that it'll sting even more because I

didn't

read you as scum when I should have, but then I think about what you could have done as scum (just push me) and I keep thinking that's more likely, that it would be stupidly easy for you to do as scum and the result is just an overall, "AHG, FINE, IF YOU'RE SCUM YOU WIN OKAY" which I hate telling players but I have to say all the same.

Or in short:
I hate you. :P

Ranger now would be a good time to explain your sketchy town read on me from the beggining because I am still wondering on it and it might help a little

I'm pretty sure I did this a long time ago. I'm almost positive the reason for it was strong gut. If there was a reason, I lost it. I just really didn't think your RVS was scum; it looked like a natural town RVS, and I was reading it and Alexcellent's in the same manner.

Since then, I have to admit that's weakened. In part because of Stack The Deck, actually: there, you were disengaged town, and replaced out. I couldn't help but have the thought: why was Alpaca disengaged town in

that

game (which was rather engaging), but didn't replace out of

this

game, which...well, I think you can check the number of replacements and game length to figure out why THIS game feels like the game you

should

have replaced out of. Yet you didn't. So the initial townread is gone, replaced by the paranoia that you stayed in this game because you were scum in the know. But that's a horrible reason, and one I also know isn't absolute. Kuroi, also from Stack The Deck, replaced out of it, yet in a similarly-disengaging game (Something_Smart's UPick), he didn't replace out...and was town there, so it's definitely not a hard-scumread and is literally the only possible doubt I have on you; there's nothing suspicious about your play otherwise.

[Ranger]

To clarify, did you actually WANT to get lynched?

No, but I wasn't opposed to the idea.
Still not, though I have regained

some

fire in me.
I probably won't self-vote, since if a wagon goes through on me, it'd be better to have that info, though since the normal "making a statement with my vote on you" doesn't apply (I can continue to make statements even after losing it), that's not as strong as it would be normally. I'll do it if I feel the need to.

Of course being lynched wouldn't be ideal, but it'd be acceptable.
And I'm pretty sure we've had this argument before, so I don't see how having it again will change the answer.

[mhsmith0]

Dgb? U meant replacing shotty? If so can you explain why you had shotty as a stronger town read than kappy? I felt like the naked celebratory tone from kappy post IV fake scum claim was especially town indicative (which is why I'm not much worried about panther right now); why do you think otherwise?

[mhsmith0]

Just that. It's not a great thing because gut but it's ok for Day 1.

Its day 2 tho.

Another unvote point. I don't think it's AI for Titus (that sheer sloppiness seems likelier to be town than scum, and the feel of her posts seems different than 1775 when she subbed in too, though I need to go back and verify)... but it still made me nervous that this was a bit too easy.

[Titus]

I'm sloppy for NAI reasons. I have not read half of what y'all have said due to personal issues.

How log is deadline? Is my vote needed somewhere?

[mhsmith0]

Deadlines in 4 days.

[mhsmith0]

For the rest, rangers still my best guess but I need to re read and that's not happening tonightZ

[Titus]

Ok, will try to be more help tomorrow.

[PantherPunt]

And I've got the mixed emotions going, like, the one moment, thinking this is you as town being able to detect the difference between my town game and my scum game

I need to add this line to my scum game repertoire because it's sick. I've made this post as town a few times and am accordingly a sucker for it. If this is wolf Ranger then I have no grasp at all on what she's capable of. But there is just a glaringly stark difference between this and what I just came from.

I love doing this where I finish one game and then sub into another with some of the same players because it's where I'm at my best on reading them. Favorite example probably being coming off of Pick Your Poison with town!vedith and starting n1654 where it was blatant he was different and scum. Here it's coming off of blatant scum!Ranger and into this game where there is a seismic shift that represents a VAST TONAL GULF.

I'm going to catch up on the thread to the best of my ability today but I have some things/players I really want to focus on....gl

[PantherPunt]

She's not pushing an agenda.

The agenda is non-committal passive scum.

How much have you read

@DrippingGoofball

- you missed this question. How much have you read?

[PantherPunt]

Oh IV, you sly little devil.

Never mind my 991. The Shotty/DGB slot is town.

BTD and Kappy/Panther are probably town as well.

where did this come from/what is the context?

I have hated two particular shotty posts so far in my read

[mhsmith0]

@panther: I feel like ranger is going back to her "finding shitty things to attack" bit. Maybe I'm conf!biased because she's attacking me, but these attacks seem dumb and reachy IMO.

I also really do think it's suspicious that she's shown basically zero interest in what's going on w btd6 (more on this later today), although given that I suspected you last game for pushing on the wrong people based on what you should know FYPOV, this may be a weaker tell than I thought.

But I'll at least re read. I'm admittedly bad at tone reading, but will see what I can find wrt your "not pushing a scum agenda" bit.

Ps curious what you saw on shotty. I thought his post hammer/scum claim bit was plausibly town indicative, though less so than kappys. Do you disagree that his iso around that point seemed towny?

[Xkfyu]

Oh IV, you sly little devil.

Never mind my 991. The Shotty/DGB slot is town.

BTD and Kappy/Panther are probably town as well.

where did this come from/what is the context?

I have hated two particular shotty posts so far in my read

Post 243. Shotty not only believes IV's scum claim, but he's happy to tell everyone how confident he was in IV flipping scum based on that one post.

[Xkfyu]

Shit.

UNVOTE: Ranger

Hold up.

[PantherPunt]

@panther: I feel like ranger is going back to her "finding shitty things to attack" bit. Maybe I'm conf!biased because she's attacking me, but these attacks seem dumb and reachy IMO.

I also really do think it's suspicious that she's shown basically zero interest in what's going on w btd6 (more on this later today), although given that I suspected you last game for pushing on the wrong people based on what you should know FYPOV, this may be a weaker tell than I thought.

But I'll at least re read. I'm admittedly bad at tone reading, but will see what I can find wrt your "not pushing a scum agenda" bit.

Ps curious what you saw on shotty. I thought his post hammer/scum claim bit was plausibly town indicative, though less so than kappys. Do you disagree that his iso around that point seemed towny?

Oh IV, you sly little devil.

Never mind my 991. The Shotty/DGB slot is town.

BTD and Kappy/Panther are probably town as well.

where did this come from/what is the context?

I have hated two particular shotty posts so far in my read

Post 243. Shotty not only believes IV's scum claim, but he's happy to tell everyone how confident he was in IV flipping scum based on that one post.

I just read through the lynch and twilight. yes I wholeheartedly disagree shotty's posting was town indicative. those posts are super easy to make

I'll go pull the stuff I didn't like and I'll talk about why I didn't like those twilight posts.

[PantherPunt]

Guess this game needs to be shot up(get it)

Hi Ranger!

I've seen you as scum (granted; I was a different scum) and I will be seeing you as mod but I haven't yet seen you as town.

why do you even need to say this. It feels like setting up WIFOM for the future, or buddying.

Anyway since you're basically the only semi active player on here besides Kap atm, again, what do you think of my analysis on Kap's post?

why are you only concerned with people that are active? Are you scum just trying to look busy?

I read it as Kappy making up a reason to move his vote to you. It neither clears him nor condemns him.

So you took the time to clutter the game wit "hey look at that it means nothing!"? why?

"Are you scum just trying to look busy" is horrible perspective. He's literally asking someone a question that has no potential value. What kind of answer are you expecting to get there? "Yes, indeed, I am."????
It's the fact that it's a question that bothers me wrt perspective because it's an attempt to project town based on the perspective of the question, but a question isn't ACTUALLY the appropriate thing there. (Scum know they have to ask questions and find it difficult so they often ask really really bad shallow questions. Hi smith)
If he just said "This looks like scum trying to look busy" that'd have been a major difference in approach and perspective and one that I wouldn't necessarily find towny, but probably more NAI. Whereas, as stated, it's pure fakery.

You don't care that I pissed you off... that contradicts itself. If you didn't care, you wouldn't be pissed off

This compounds the above because it's a fake "GOTCHA." I get suspecting catching someone on a contradiction in thought that indicates that they are fabricating a thought process (and/or read).
But I've found it to be a reliable scumtell that scum will try to call out town contradictions purely for the purpose of shading them, yet many times the contradiction isn't at all relevant to a thought process that's alignment indicative. Shotty is throwing shade here for a contradiction that is irrelevant and plainly said, dumb. This is no way indicates a faked thought process relevant to determining someone's attempt/fake attempt to solve.

[PantherPunt]

mod daytalk?

also iv I think I pegged you.

I called out a Ranger post about this in my catch-up, and later found someone else call it out too. For being a forced townslip. Why does nobody call this out as such? I need to look at who called it out previously yet said nothing about this one. This looks forced because there's nothing to learn from it if coming from an actual villager.

Spoiler:

I recommend priming the person we talked about in post 3 of QT.

Trying to figure out who this is so firefighter knows who to protect. I don't think scum have daytalk, so it's someone they discussed pre game. which means they won't prime based on performance, just on meta and stuff like that. Who's someone IV has a history with?

If anyone tells firefighter who to protect, their protection will be worthless as scum will just avoid priming them.

Also, perhaps IV just mentioned a name somewhere in post 3 of scumtalk and later (during the day) realised that they were a threat. As far as I know, primed and killed players can't post in the thread as stumps.

I'm not telling the firefighter who to protect. I'm giving them a clue so they can decide who to protect on their own.

OK. Now I understand.

I originally thought you were going to actually say who the target was most likely to be.

No. The "Who's someone IV has a history with?" was a rhetorical question, meant for the firefighter to answer in his head.

I figured that out after your post.

By the way, another quote pyramid is building up.

That's the point! I love quote pyramids.

The more we talk about it, the more scum benefit.

This isn't town-indicative. It's an easy easy post to make to look like you're being helpful. And the fact is simple that SOMEONE is going to tell them to shut up about. So why not be the one who does it? These posts are straight NAI.

I recommend priming the person we talked about in post 3 of QT.

Trying to figure out who this is so firefighter knows who to protect. I don't think scum have daytalk, so it's someone they discussed pre game. which means they won't prime based on performance, just on meta and stuff like that. Who's someone IV has a history with?

LOL I promise you won't figure it out

I guess twilight is going on for a bit longer, so meantime I'll make snide comments and laugh at your cluelessness

laugh away. you are dead. This set up is super easy now that you are gone day one.

In no way is this something scum couldn't fake post. I don't know how to describe why I find the wording of it fake, but I do.

I didn't need anything else. That post alone is why I death tunneled you. You gave your self away man.

Same with this one. And it's about IV's reply to his terrible post 71 where I fully agreed with IV's reply to him. His reason was "you're asking others for reads instead of trying to solve" which was 1) demonstrably false and 2) not anything in any game where on page 3 you'd genuinely believe someone "gave themselves away." it's just a fake and bad reason to justify a tunnel on someone

[PantherPunt]

Shit.

UNVOTE: Ranger

Hold up.

we're waiting

[PantherPunt]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball