New York 195: Adventure Mafia - Game over!

[zakk]

4300 woo

[Titus]

@Zakk please spoiler that. I have enough time focusing with what little time and energy I have. You're not helping.

@Egg, I only care about single ball with normal voting mechanics. Which are those.

[zakk]

Just iso'd pmatt too

I'm sure of my vote



I can't spoiler it lol sry

[Titus]

For the future

[Egg]

I think all of the Kmd ones were. I'll have to check later

[Egg]

Oops. Ignore Gorrad's favorite fictional characters mafia. That had two teams. The rest is good though

[Creature]

zakk, can you link your singleball groupscum games?

[zakk]

Yes

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=62299 (Genesis Mafia)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=62295 (scum thread)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66274 (Killer Instinct)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=65990 (scum thread)

[Creature]

Damn, I don't see much difference there.

[Creature]

but based on your relations with Magna, I don't think you'd do that.

[Creature]

Titus, what do you think?

[zakk]

in the scum thread from Killer instinct:

Egg is too verbose to leave alive. We need to play a war of attrition now, and make the game boring. This game is far too active/involved/informational to hide in the shadows any more, we need to aggressively kill aggressively town players, and remove everyone else's will to play the game.

I suggest we all become a lot more active, and form a vocal, intentional voting bloc of sorts. Nobody would suspect that.

Like, we all townread each other and such?

Yeah. If enough people say it, people will begin to believe it. We just have to be as vocal about it as possible (i.e. I am totally not interested in a SirCakez lynch, I really don't think he'd say this as scum). People won't tie us together as scum that way, or will WIFOM themselves into oblivion. It's a weird play.

But now's the point at which everything may fall apart, since town has a lot of information, and it's getting hard to feign ignorance of trends. So let's just create new trends, where we all suspect Ranger of something shady because of X, etc. And let's do things that "no scum would do" such as "I totally agree with zakk and Sircakez. Ranger is scum" type of stuff. It's cheeky, but it's definitely the kind of thing I look for when scumhunting, to prove that people are NOT scum together (because, what scum would do that? it's just counter-intuitive).

So let's be counter-intuitive.

This is probably the worst idea I've ever heard and I'm 100% down for it.

as you can see i do my best to keep my scumbuddies alive
it just makes sense to do this

having buddies alive means you endgame faster
bussing does nothing but make the game harder AND longer, with absolutely no guaranteed payoff

project matt yeah he was a traitor so i can see "scum not knowing he was scum too" as a reason for that lynch going through and not being able to read it as me just pushing a scum read

but with magna, if i was scum with him, i could easily have just ignored everything he said and pushed a lynch on some townie, which would have been easy as pie

there's literally no reason for me to go head to head with my scumbuddy when we are two of the most active people in the game

we could have just picked a target, laid votes down, character assassinated TOGETHER (i'm good at it too, tbh), and coasted to an easy win.
and let's be honest there was not a dearth of very easy targets this game. that would not have been difficult.

if i wanted to i could (and would) have pushed lynches on cy and titus MUCH earlier in the game


also from the above:

bonus:

you get to see meta of me as scum killing off egg early because he's scary for me when i play scum

here's more:

I want to kill egg

If you guys were shooting Egg for his role then you're probably going to be disappointed.

i wanna shoot egg because he's a) active, b) suspects me, and c) is widely considered to be town. it's not role related in the slightest.

i think if egg was alive on D3 we would have been in trouble, so i think that was the right kill

bonus 2 (!!!):

that game ended may 19th with a

perfect scum win

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7930035

THIS game started may 19th
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7929321

coming off that embarrassing loss, town-Egg would have been like hooooly shit, zakk is dangerous, kill zakk! don't underestimate zakk!

instead, this is what we got

I lost brain cells reading the probability discussion on Page 3.

I've got at least some level of a town read on drmy, copper, zakk, and Magna (in that order).

That's as of the end of Page 3. Will say so if that changes.

Interesting.

Still though, zakk is town this time

For projectmatt, my reads in order:

Town reads:
ETL
Zakk
Drmy
Projectmatt

Weak town:
Persivul
Titus
Thebrawl
Copper
Magna

Null:
heuristically_alone
Desmond
Anen
I am innocent
Nosferatu

Weak scum:
Lowell
Alban

Scum reads:
Cytheflyguy
Seth
Killthestory
Ircher

And you asked me about zakk. I just saw his scum game and if he deliberately changed his meta over the course of a week or two, he's done an amazing job of it. I think it's much more likely this is town zakk

Page 36:

Interesting points from Titus on Zakk and Brawl. If one of them flips scum, I could see them as buddies. I'm still townreading their individual play though.

There's killthestory doing whatever Titus wants again. Titus how are you not concerned about this?

Page 37:
Persivul, do you think Titus and ETL are scum together? I see you are scumreading both, but I'm trying to figure out if one of them flipping scum would change your read on the other.

Page 38:
Hmm. You guys are making me doubt my town read on zakk. I just saw his scum game and it wasn't anything like this but...Iunno.

Really hope we can expect some reasoning behind Nahdia's reads.

Page 39:

Ok Zakk's response is good. He can be town again.

Magna posting the Ircher wagon makes me even more sure Ircher is scum. I'm townreading the entire wagon from it's height except Cy. Cy's wagon on the other hand has Seth, heur, and Ircher as vote 3-5 at that point. Ew.

Page 40:
Not sure what to make of Seth's posting here. It seems better, but hypocritical at the same time.

Yikes, Nahdia is gonna be anoying to play with.

Page 42:
Ok, I can't read Nahdia worth shit, so I'll wait for associative tells later on.

Zakk saying he doesn't care about looking town is exactly why he's town. In his scum game, he didn't immediately explain a read because he got called scummy for explaining reads before that. It was one of the reasons I suspected him there. Here, he's doing the exact opposite.

Page 43:
Brawl, which of Nahdia's posts did you think were "really good"? I agree with the rest of the reads you posted here, but I don't understand this one.

[...]

Page 46:
I don't understand killthestory's zakk vote but at this point I don't expect to understand anything killthestory does.

Ircher, in 1129 are you talking about putting yourself in your reads list or centering your reads around yourself?

Nahdia's crusade against Anen doesn't make sense to me.

Zakk's self meta is accurate. If he's scum, he's deliberately changed that meta. Not impossible, but I'm just saying like I've been saying that this isn't anything like his last scum game and everything he is saying about that game is true.

Page 47:
Titus, you seem to be townreading Nahdia. Is that the case and if so why?

[...]

he gives lip service to the fact that we just played together, and i was scum and he was town, but never actually suspects me until NOW, when there's NOBODY ELSE

tbh i should have suspected him way earlier this game. i hadn't seen his scum game yet. but i guess the fact that i didn't suspect him is the reason i'm still alive right now, so

conclusion:

he's scum and he was trying to buddy me early because the tables were turned and he wanted a chance to effect a victory and shove my maniacal laughter from last time back down my throat

and i'm never gonna let that happen

[Creature]

I noticed that.

[Creature]

I am ISOing who I feel might know who to choose between zakk and Egg.

[Creature]

Thanks for your opinions, Titus

[Titus]

I think this thread needs to the taught spoiler usage.

Strongly leaning Egg based on votes. He only voted Ircher the entire game.

[Creature]

I think I've already made my decision.

[Creature]

VOTE: Egg

There it is.

[Creature]

I don't think Magna would suggest his scum buddy could be a non-town PR in the situation he is.

[Creature]

And I also don't think zakk and Magna would be so dead set on each other if they were both scum.

[Titus]

Confirming myself as town.

[Creature]

Thanks, that's better.

[Titus]

I am pretty sure Egg is the last scum, but I have a few RL concerns that prevent me from diving in with 100% confidence. Given the game is partially resting on my decision, making it rushed is not good. Apologies to dead chat in advance.

[Creature]

May the waiting game begin

[Egg]

Zakk, I've played way too many games to be intimidated just because someone played well one time. Your play was so different from killer instinct to here and it's why I was townreading you and why you're going to win. Don't expect such a quick town read from me if we play again though lol. I'm actually surprised Creature sees the two games as similar from you. I don't at all. You're more confident here. More in control. More willing to take calculated risks. I might actually nom you for a body of work scummy award for scum play. But to counter the "I would have Nk'd Egg" arguement (didn't you just tell me "As scum I would..." is scummy?), why? I was townreading you pretty hard. Nking me would have made no sense especially with how I was too busy to play to my full potential for most of this game.

Titus, you know my scum game is stronger than this. If you can sway Creature or we no lynch, we can still stop Zakk from winning. It's all in your hands. There isn't much I can do now. Look at my scum games and the things I do to stay alive or at least further my buddies. Like the fake "post in the wrong PT" move I pulled to advance Silverwolf in Wake's large. Or the suggestion for Spy to claim tracking me to our NK in one of my Kmd games. Any games where I've been this weak, I've been town (team mafia, joss whedon). The only way we win this game is for you to see that. You're usually pretty good with information in front of here and you've got it all. You seem to have your mind made up. Try to step back and not fall victim to confirmation bias when reviewing meta, rereading, or whatever else you might do.

Vote Zakk