Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[Titus]

Wait, scum cannot be off the wagons entirely. Doh! So we're probably looking at every wagon being unaligned pairs.

[DrippingGoofball]

agreed

[Quaroath]

Vote count 2.12

mhsmith0 - (1) Ranger
Ranger - (2) DrippingGoofball, BTD6_maker
DrippingGoofball - (1) PantherPunt
Titus - (1) Xkfyu

Not Voting - (3) AlpacaAlpaca, Titus, mhsmith0,

With 8 eligible to vote, is takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline will be 7/23 @ 10pm PST.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ranger

Going w this. For now.

[mhsmith0]

@ranger: you said in 134

To me, RC is just another player. I don't treat him any differently than I would anyone else. But this is not mutual. RC holds me in a whole different league, so he should be angry. He should be emotional. He should be saying how sad he is that I've gone downhill like this, he should be trying to work with me, or if he seriously thinks I replaced in as scum and for some UNGODLY reason went all-out on him (which...runs contrary to literally every piece of my scum meta, ever), he would not rest until I was dead.

Can you provide a game where something similar (town!you scum reading ranger) has happened and he's reacted this way? Also helpful: one where he was scum and did NOT do something like this.

[mhsmith0]

@panther: wrt the after scum claim tonal stuff, any thoughts on shottys 231, 235? And on m&m's 255?

[mhsmith0]

Edit: never mind on 231 you'd mentioned that already

[mhsmith0]

Wait, scum cannot be off the wagons entirely. Doh! So we're probably looking at every wagon being unaligned pairs.

1) why can't alpaca be the scum off wagon FYPOV? Or did you just mean that both wolves couldn't be off wagon?

2) while both wolves together seems less likely, is there a particular reason to discount the possibility here?

3) in your opinion, which wagon of
mhsmith0 - (2) Ranger, BTD6_maker
BTD6_maker - (2) PantherPunt, Town Mafioso
Ranger - (2) mhsmith0, DrippingGoofball
Is likeliest to have no wolves on it and why?

[mhsmith0]

Btd, if you were anything other than consistent mislynch bait I'd be all over you for that vote. As it is... I dunno. I still hate it.

Hypocrisy, thy name is mhsmith.

You're attacking BTD6_maker for something that you, ironically, by virtue of the attack, are yourself doing: literally every point you make in there applies to your stance on me compared to your stance on BTD6.

Honestly, I'm not real sure why Ranger hasn't already been lynched.

Well don't blame me, I tried to help. Still didn't go through.

Citations needed on all four points please.

1) implied "if ranger DOES reply then never mind"
2) writes it in a way designed CLEARLY to blame me if ranger flips town, while basically just sleeping part of my read on her
3) naked "well one of them is wolf" bit
4) slides right in to the l-2 slot from someone who's been bandwagoning all game

Reposting for emphasis. You said all four points applied to me. If your attack wasn't just made up this should be easy to answer.

[PantherPunt]

Smith you're giving me some heebie jeebies

[mhsmith0]

Why?

[PantherPunt]

I talked about how I evaluate you on depth and amount of questions you ask (more and deeper = town with a pretty strong correlation historically; unsure if you were previously aware)

And you seem explicitly focused on asking questions that appear thoughtful. And the distinct lack of declaratory statements makes me feel like you're a) pandering and b) avoiding stances

[mhsmith0]

I'm in the middle of re reading. I still think it's ranger, but the sheer volume of bad or unstated reads (or just bandwagoning) in this game makes me hesitate. I'm also trying to find evidence one way or the other on whether she's pushing an agenda. I also don't know what it means that she (IMO) finds something shitty to attack pretty soon after you said scum!ranger would find something shitty to attack. Like, that's just super brazen of her if she's a wolf... But that also could just be wifom in a game where I feel like she's been playing that card.

Ps do you agree that it was a shitty attack? Or do you think there was something legit there?

[PantherPunt]

I'm in the middle of re reading. I still think it's ranger, but the sheer volume of bad or unstated reads (or just bandwagoning) in this game makes me hesitate. I'm also trying to find evidence one way or the other on whether she's pushing an agenda. I also don't know what it means that she (IMO) finds something shitty to attack pretty soon after you said scum!ranger would find something shitty to attack. Like, that's just super brazen of her if she's a wolf... But that also could just be wifom in a game where I feel like she's been playing that card.

Ps do you agree that it was a shitty attack? Or do you think there was something legit there?

I don't agree. If I understand correctly, she's saying you're not evaluating every slot and waffling enough to be town. The unfortunate part of it is that her evaluation that you're narrowly focused is undoubtedly affected by the fact that the narrow focus is on her. But I personally know that I best read people when they push me. If for something that I believe they believe, I can townread them. If it's pure horseshit (a la Ranger in Stack the Deck), it's basically them claiming scum to me.

I haven't labored through your ISO yet to know if you seem too narrowly focused. But that's probably prudent to see if you were following the same "ask questions, declare little" style prior to me telling you about that in Stack the Deck. If so, I'm willing to ride that at least for day 2 here

[mhsmith0]

How did you get that from 1025-1026?

[PantherPunt]

I didn't. I ISO'd Ranger and ctrl+f'd your name. 1025 1026 are addendums to a case she made about how you're approaching the game. are you saying that 1025 and 1026 are solely her case?

[mhsmith0]

I didn't. I ISO'd Ranger and ctrl+f'd your name. 1025 1026 are addendums to a case she made about how you're approaching the game. are you saying that 1025 and 1026 are solely her case?

No, I'm saying that 1025-6 are shitty attacks on their own. 1025 is IMO nonsense; I fail to see how ANY, much less all, of my points on btd apply to me. And 1026 is reachy, AI reading into something which very clearly had a reasonable explanation as town (literally the one I gave, which I feel like should have been obvious even before I responded).

[mhsmith0]

Wrt her earlier case, I don't see how my STD game would lead to a meta read of

I don't agree. If I understand correctly, she's saying you're not evaluating every slot and waffling enough to be town.

Specifically the waffling part. Did you get that impression from that game? It feels clearly wrong to me which makes me think it's made up (or more specifically, an intentionally reachy meta read based on a very short sample size in open 635 where I subbed in at MYLO and actually DID waffle and struggle in the like 72 hours I was playing before Titus and postie mis voted letting the scum team end it).

[PantherPunt]

I almost said what she said in 1026 before she did.

And I did get that impression of you in LyLo, yes. Not prior to that..so I can kind of see that that is differentiated. When you know your decision is game-losing vs game-continuing you should be looking at everyone and constantly reevaluating.

Are you just saying that's a bad meta read? or that's misrepresentation of your game here thus far?

[PantherPunt]

side note that Titus's lack of presence is concerning. I'd say the thread has a dadv feel except the whole game has been dead so it's hard to say the wolves are just happy with the direction of day and hanging back. half of the living players have made count-on-one-hand posts since I replaced in

[PantherPunt]

Spoiler: Not Game Related

Titus I once again registered for the LSAT and didn't show up on test day

[mhsmith0]

I think it's a bad meta read to extend how I act in LYLO (on a hammer board) to how I act normally. So when her read was "you didn't act like you did in MYLO in open 635 and that makes you scummy" I think she's just bullshitting and making a read that SOUNDS like it's thought out but is actually pretty obviously shallow and reachy.

[mhsmith0]

side note that Titus's lack of presence is concerning. I'd say the thread has a dadv feel except the whole game has been dead so it's hard to say the wolves are just happy with the direction of day and hanging back. half of the living players have made count-on-one-hand posts since I replaced in

The quality of the wagon/votes on ranger is a better defense of her than anything I've actually seen from her ISO tbh. It's kinda weird since iirc when I came in and pushed her there was a counter wagon on me pretty fast, but on the second time around, much less resistance. It's weird and I don't know what to make of it.

[mhsmith0]

Although if ranger is a wolf then a partner inside {dgb, Titus} seems likely given shotty and touka pushed on me the first time while dgb or Titus could just be bussing. I guess btd6 would work there too for the same reason but I feel like rangers super soft push against the btd wagon makes them unlikely buddies.

[Titus]

Wait, scum cannot be off the wagons entirely. Doh! So we're probably looking at every wagon being unaligned pairs.

1) why can't alpaca be the scum off wagon FYPOV? Or did you just mean that both wolves couldn't be off wagon?

2) while both wolves together seems less likely, is there a particular reason to discount the possibility here?

3) in your opinion, which wagon of
mhsmith0 - (2) Ranger, BTD6_maker
BTD6_maker - (2) PantherPunt, Town Mafioso
Ranger - (2) mhsmith0, DrippingGoofball
Is likeliest to have no wolves on it and why?

1)Both wolves cannot be off, as I am town.
2)Yes, because one of the town wagons takes off. Scum are likely split 50/50 to encourage a wagon to grow.
3) BTD6 by recent posting. The 1 v 1 between Ranger and you would explain the vote switch.

Mhsmith or Ranger should eat rope today.