Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

we could just f u cking lynch luna fox

[mhsmith0]

Who were you referring to then when you said that?

Thor. My point was that Thor COULD have done any number of things to shield his buddy but instead took a VERY townie-looking approach if digging into that back and forth and coming up w the right answer on karnos.

[Transcend]

that's nice, there's 10 fucking people left and all you guys are doing right now is dick-jerking the people you think are town instead of focusing on the subject at matter which is finding the scum in the pool of 9 from your pov.

[Luna Fox]

I already found it... i've been voting them all day.

[Tenshii]

Finding town is just as valid as finding scum. Especially when there's like nothing happening towards finalizing a lynch (aka finding scum) in the first place

[Transcend]

no.

maybe when there's more than 1 scum left, but looking for town when there's 1 scum left is bad. this is because the last scum is most likely to towntell and their scumtells will get overlooked.

[Tenshii]

this is because the last scum is most likely to towntell and their scumtells will get overlooked.

I don't understand how the number of scum alive makes this true. Why couldn't scum be more likely to towntell when there's two alive? Why wouldn't their scumtells be overlooked when there's two?

[Transcend]

stop asking stupid questions

[Transcend]

anyways fmpov i tryharded my ass off when i was scum both times on this site. i won one of the games, and the other game i lost due to multi-ball and being outnumbered. no one in either PT thought i was scum because i was tryharding so hard and making my tells sound genuine and all that. i think looking for errors that scum make as opposed to reading for towntells from everyone is the way to go from here forth.

[Tenshii]

Jsyk, My 1256 were genuine questions.

[Transcend]

fine.

they tryhard more with one scum left imo because with two left they have a safety net and can be a bit more relaxed. i know i flailed super hard the entire game i was solo scum in my faction for Fire n Ice mafia.

when there's more than 1 scum left i think people (myself included) like to collect townreads (not too many) that they full-on trust and can depend on and would be willing to defend if they were getting lynched. basically doing the poe thing is fine because uunless you're really bad you can still have a decent chance of lynching scum by poe. usually the last scum that gets lynched is the one that plays the best. so they can skate through several days due to towncred they had from their towny posts.

i hope that makes sense but i thought it was pretty clear cut anyways.

[Transcend]

apologies about the cursing i'm not doing this on purpose i swaer lol

[Thor665]

Greetings all, totally behind a lot of pages - this Snapchat show is pretty wonky and went with a one day weekend, which is just cruel.

Has anything of interest happened since the flip? I'm at about a .00001% chance of ever reading all those pages betwixt then and now, so Cliff Note me.

[Transcend]

no`

[Thor665]

VOTE: KillTheStory

I'm still serious about the question I asked that no one fielded.
Why is Tenshii a townread for peeps?
I got nothing there.
Slot feels super empty.
Whassup?

[Thor665]

no`

Since you think I was potentially bussing - I'm fine with skipping yours

[Transcend]

funny guy

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: KillTheStory

I'm still serious about the question I asked that no one fielded.
Why is Tenshii a townread for peeps?
I got nothing there.
Slot feels super empty.
Whassup?

Idk. I don't particularly see tenshii as solid town.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler: karnos on luna

You are pushing this inane theory that you are really good at town-reading people but really bad at scum reading them, which doesn't pass muster. There is no inherent difference between a scum read and a town read, they both measure the same thing, but town is on the positive scale and scum is on the negative.

I disagree!
I town hunt because im better at finding town than scum!

*banging head against wall*

If you can find town, then by process of elimination you found scum too. The process is identical.

Regardless, that's really tangential.
Karnos argues that you cant be bad at scumreading people but good at townreading people because it's the same thing.
Which isn't true, imo.

I'm sorry you are in denial here, but you are wrong. The process of scum hunting means looking at every player, and picking out the one who seems least likely to flip town. There is no difference at all between reading scum and reading town.

These process are entirely different, the conclusion is the same, the only difference is that the reason for the "scumreads" is "PoE" on my case.

How do you know the process is different? I thought you said you only got town reads.

Anyway, hypothetical question: Is there any player you do not town-read right now? Can you point at any post they made and say that was part of the reason why you don't town read them? If so, you successfully read a player as scummy! Congratulations.

Now let's see here what you usually define as "scummy" can be done by both Town and Scum, there's no way you wont make mislynches if you just guide yourself with "scummyness" to vote players.

Are you making the claim that your method never results in a miss-lynch?

PoE in of itself is scummy broseph. the fact you trying it D1 is PAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

If you say so.

I can see why he might say that. It's a very easy way to play as scum, since you know who is all town. You just act like you "figured out" that X player is town, announce your read, and ta-da!

I didn't bring it up because It's so incredibly obviously bad that I don't think someone who actually rolled scum would be careless enough to announce such a strategy.

I mean Thor and Karnos derp

Eh, I agree.

But what about Io?

What is she doing to contribute, other than popping in to misspell my name and remind everyone that I am scum.

Wild theory here- Io instigated the whole Thor vs Karnos argument, and then backed off satisfied when I got a few votes on my wagon. Doesn't that scream standard operation for scum? you want to push a miss lynch, but you don't want to be the one who is pushing it hard all day, so that after the flip you can turn things around and get someone on the miss-lynch wagon lynched.

If Io was a townie scum hunting, she should be looking for my partners, or at least putting some effort into my push, encouraging others to vote & hammer me. Instead she sits back and does little to nothing, exactly what I would expect from scum watch a TvT argument unfold.

My only problem with the wild theory: it requires that Thor is town.

This really doesn't read as wolf-wolf. As a comparison point,

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Was where karnos was Wolf w ranger. Note the lack of substantive engagement from him to her. He dumps on a distancing vote, and pushes a "scum read" on her, but ultimately isn't interested in what she has to say. Here, he IS interested in what Luna has to say, and not in a "I'm just pushing you as scum" sort of way. So unless there's more/better meta in karnos and how he treats his buddies, I'd consider this reasonably clearing on Luna.

[Luna Fox]

VOTE: KillTheStory

I'm still serious about the question I asked that no one fielded.
Why is Tenshii a townread for peeps?
I got nothing there.
Slot feels super empty.
Whassup?

Well if you came to this conclusion you wont need to read my 1029 then.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler: karnos on gig

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

Io, is this and post #70 what lead you to believe that Karnos is adamant about Thor's lynch? If not, could you tell me what I missed?

Karnos, how are you reading Thor at the moment?

Thos *is* acting scummy, though not as much as Io, and I only have one vote.

The problem I have with Thor is his logic is inconsistent. He thinks his read is so good he can trust you as town after only a couple posts. Okay, maybe his read is so good, but if you accept that he is so good at reading people, then shouldn't he pick his own scum to vote, based on his amazing reads? Instead he chooses to sheep you. It's like he is saying he is so good at reading people that he is 100% convinced you are town, but at the same time he isn't confident enough in his reads to independently vote on his biggest scum read. It's a weird inconsistency to me.

There is one perfectly logical conclusion, is that he read you as town and I was his biggest scum read, and that would make perfect sense... but when he was questioned about his vote, he didn't say that was the case... he just said he was sheeping you. It's like he doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the vote, doesn't want to be associated with it. He wants to support the wagon on me but give himself a nice out after I flip town.

If players know the questionnaire will be used to call them scum

Karnos

, is this what you believe the purpose of the RQS was?

What you or I think about the purpose is irrelevant, since you have already shown that you will use it as an excuse to push a lynch.

Given that knowledge, and knowing that ignoring the RQS has no ill potential, it just sounds like fake scum hunting, busywork essentially. It's like when someone enters thread, asks a few pointed questions, and then never follows up with them.

The fact you're concerned about how you think I'm using the RQS to push your lynch and how you've been trying to draw negative attention onto Thor (as in post 70) tells me your main concern is in how other people are reading you. That's pretty basic scum motivation. You say you're scumreading Thor and Io, but your interactions with them don't seem like scumhutning to me, it's just redrawing attention onto them.

Again with post 70. You refuse to read it as written, instead adding in assumptions about it's motivation. Saying Thor was the only one who hadn't answered questions is a lie. You had not answered your own questionnaire. Several players who were not active had not answered it. Perhaps players in a prior game didn't answer it. As I said in a prior post, in the only other game I played with a questionnaire, one of the players who refused to answer it flipped scum. You can keep trying to twist 70 into an attack on Thor, but that doesn't make it true.

I don't feel the need to share a detailed read of you right now. You aren't a top scum choice, I have no intention of voting you today, based on the current game state, but if I tell you exactly what behavior of yours is townie and what is scummy I am just inviting you to adjust your play and fool me further if you actually are scum.

also i don't see why you couldn't answer my question with a simple "town" or "scum" or even "null", it's not like i'll know why you read me that way and I'll change whatever it is you suspect me for.

Typically, if you are scum, my read on you might help you decide whether or not to nightkill me. Now in this particular setup this is less of a concern, but I don't feel like changing up my strategy at this point because I don't see the benefit.

As written, the post was written in such a way where it could have only been referring to Thor.

Pretend for a moment that Thor did fill out the questionnaire, and I still made that same post. Are you saying it would be grammatically flawed?

No, there is still a valid interpretation for the post: I was asking a general question.

I answered it as a general question, so of course it's a valid interpretation, but I can't help but think after reading 141 that you were trying to cast some sort of suspicion onto Thor (and myself, as it seems you keep bringing up the fact I was withholding my answers for a little bit). I didn't really read it the way Io was and I was trying to understand where she was coming from in post #105 with pretty much all of her suspicion on you, but after seeing more posts from you, I ended up coming to the same conclusion as her after rereading your ISO and the thread.

I agree, my iso probably looks like crap, but every time I look at this thread there are 2-3 new semantic arguments picking apart my choice of words. Instead of arguing that you know what I meant better than I know what I meant, why not explain why I am scum?

Why would scum!karnos go to all this effort to throw suspicion on to Thor? Why would I be so elusive and sneaky about it, while I come right out and call Io scum and vote her? Wouldn't I just vote Thor, if I wanted him lynched?

And WTF is your logic now about 141. You know posts are made in consecutive order, right? Post 70 was Friday afternoon, Io's responses to it occurred later Friday, and then post 141 was Saturday morning. Does your theory include a time travel device? Otherwise, you can't reverse cause and effect. If 141 caused you to view 70 as a scummy post, that still doesn't explain Io's attacks that occurred prior to it.

Anyway, just answer me this if nothing else: whats the scum motivation? Taking your assumptions, not mine: If I have seen scum ignore questionnaires in other games, and I pointed out Thor was ignoring it here to attack him, maybe, if anything, you have proven I am scum hunting. Why does that make me scum, and not town?


Meh. This is a big waste of time and not getting us closer to finding scum. My iso looks bad because I am making posts like this to respond to nonsense attacks and I don't really have much time to look at anything else going on in the game.

Similar story. Neither is as clear as Thor, but both are pretty clear.

Town
Thor
Luna / gig / io (in some order)

[mhsmith0]

VC Day 1 - 3

karnos L-3 - Io, Thor665, gigabyte
Thor665 L-3 - Killthestory, Transcend, Rosske
Io L-5 - karnos

(expired on 2016-07-29 16:30:00)

Fun question: why was scum!karnos not on the Thor counter wagon here? The lazy answer is Thor is his buddy. The more plausible answer is one of:

1) karnos buddy already on Thor wagon, dont want to push together
2) karnos didn't want to active push the Thor mislynch wagon, wanted to park his vote elsewhere while continuing his back and forth

[Transcend]

fuck meta

i for one don't play the same scum game each time, maybe karnos doesn't either. just some food for thought. don't clear someone due to the actions of someone else.

[Luna Fox]

I think you're confbiasing at this point.

[Transcend]

i don't even nkow what that is

i just want you lynched