Newbie 1730 - To The North (Game Over)

[innocentvillager]

@Enefpe: I am leaning scum on karnos, although this isn't too concrete yet. I'm getting mixed vibes from you and Transcend, and by PoE/gut I think it's very possible that one of you two is scum. I posted a reads list earlier, for the most part it has remained the same. Ironstove has dropped down on my town list though, and is more at a lean-town for now.

126 is the best I've seen.

If this is a case, it's the weakest impact case I've ever seen that's not refutable.

Ratio of IC posts/"scumhunting posts" in the first 2-3 pages? Seriously? How is that even an AI argument? Where is the scum motivation, where is the town motivation? I am an IC who is trying to help newbies figure out the beginnings of the game. There's not much scumhunting to be done in RVS, and honestly I did a lot more "scumhunting" in that time than most players, even if there was basically nothing to go off of and we were still in RVS. It is literally my job to answer theory questions/stuff, and a lot of it usually comes up near the beginning of the game.

I think karnos said that was ONE of some unknown number of reasons he was "scumreading" me, if it was the only reason, if it were up to me I would revoke his SE status and make him /in as a Newbie again.

So keep trying.

[innocentvillager]

I've agreed with most of what you've said, but I disagree here. I think it sounded pretty townie to me, if a bit aggressive. Calling people out when all they do is give themselves outs is an important thing to do. You're more likely to try and leave yourselves outs as scum imo.

You misunderstood my issue with this post. My issue here was that karnos scumread Soula for putting me at L-1, while he himself was still voting me. He makes a strong accusation against Soula for setting me up for an ML, but he makes no effort to change his vote to Soula at this point, if he is attacking Soula for "knowing that I'm town". He later clarified that his scumread on Soula was conditional on me flipping town (and he was still scumreading me), but if I'm flipping scum then obviously the conditions for his Soula scumread weren't met so it is void.

I still had an issue with his post for two reasons, the first I already stated:

1) The post didn't look conditional. "Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day." Does that look conditional at all? It is a blatant accusation of trying to ML someone, yet he doesn't do a thing about it with his vote. There was no "If IV flips town" clause here or anything that hinted at that. The wording still implies that he knows I'm town.

Now, this wouldn't be scummy if he was townreading me. But he claims to be SCUMREADING me. That means, in town!karnos's mind, there is an implicit consideration of me as scum. To accuse Soula of trying to get an ML off of town!IV without any conditionals suggests that karnos does not actually scumread me, which suggests that he is scum/fabricating his read on me/knows I am town.

2) On a rethink as I'm typing this up, I've realized I also don't like it because it could set scum!karnos up to mislynch me, and then based on that conditional, pull an ML off of Soula the following day due to me flipping town. This is more of a convenience/speculative tell, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

@karnos: Why are you actually scumreading me, then? You made that IC/scumhunting argument which I explained in two separate posts why it was terrible, you blanketly called my ISO bad at one point, and now you haven't responded to my refutation of your sole disclosed reason.

[innocentvillager]

To accuse Soula of trying to get an ML off of town!IV without any conditionals

of "If IV is town"

suggests that karnos does not actually scumread me, which suggests that he is scum/fabricating his read on me/knows I am town.

EBWOP (Edit by way of post)

[innocentvillager]

I think it's too early to bus a teammate, so if IV flips town then I'm tunneling karnos/skold like fuck.

I really want to lynch karnos today.

Your vote says otherwise.

I don't understand what's going on in town!you's mind, and it's starting to make me wary of you.

[ironstove]

That soula post @ #183 is actually disgusting.

[innocentvillager]

Yeah, actually I don't really like it either. I kinda brushed it off to the side since I think Soula is town, but that is a pretty disgusting post.

I still don't think he's today's lynch at all though. I'll rethink him tomorrow.

[ironstove]

I iso'd Soula and I think he's maf. I was wrong in town reading him.

[Soula]

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

How is it a scum flag if I believe Transcend is scum? I mean he's targeting IV as HIGH SCUM when I barely get anything negative from IV, except that IV is trying to be a helpful town. I mean, jeez. I'd like to nail Transcend as mafia in round 2 and honestly it doesn't do me any good to do this as mafia anyway. I'll just guarantee that I get killed if Transcend flips green.

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

Um

Why is your vote on me then

There is no continuity in this post

VOTE: karnos

I just don't see a lynch happening on Transcend this round. And I'm pretty sure he's mafia at this point. I figured it would be worth it to lose you in round 1; you haven't even really been that active until now either, so it didn't seem like a big loss at the time.

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

Um

Why is your vote on me then

There is no continuity in this post

It's a scum read based on Soula having inside knowledge that you will flip town. Of course if you actually flip scum, then that will show the read for just being a red herring as many reads are.

It wouldn't make sense to switch votes now, it's a conditional read on Soula based on your flip- which we haven't seen yet.

Yeah, it figures you'd say that. You and Transcend are most likely mafia. Enefpe was more of a safe bet when I couldn't be sure.
I'm done with this nonsense.

VOTE: Karnos

[Soula]

Alright, got a chance to thoroughly read without having to defend myself first. So Post 187 wasn't directed at me. But my response is still valid.

[ironstove]

MY MAFIA SENSE IS TINGLING.

VOTE: SOULA

[Soula]

Eh, Fine. If it's going to come to that. But once I flip green, don't forget about Karnos and Transcend. Even if I suck so bad to get outed in the first round, I'm happy if it helps get a mafia.

[Xalxe]

Vote Count 1.8

Cook a feast no family could fully eat, recite prayers no family could fully believe, and acknowledge a frightful history no family could fully comprehend.

innocentvillager (2)

: Transcend, Enefpe no Time

Enefpe no Time (2)

: Skold, Joushi

karnos (2)

: innocentvillager, Soula

Soula (1)

: ironstove

Not Voting

: fiddlercrabontheroof, karnos

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-08-14 09:17:39)

fiddlercrabontheroof

replaces Mori.

Having nothing to do with the game at all, if you have 5 minutes, why not take the

Family Feud

survey in my signature?

[ironstove]

VOTE: karnos

[ironstove]

Karnos is the most scummy Lynch but iv Lynch gives the most information I think.

[karnos]

Alright genius. So IV, who has been pretty much absent and only made some meta-posts about the game, you read as hard scum? OH REALLY. Fine, I'll play your game. But if he flips green, you got some explaining to do.

Here is a read for you. The above is a huge scum flag, setup so you can miss lynch IV without being blamed for the lynch and turn it into a miss lynch on Transcend the following day.

How is it a scum flag if I believe Transcend is scum? I mean he's targeting IV as HIGH SCUM when I barely get anything negative from IV, except that IV is trying to be a helpful town. I mean, jeez. I'd like to nail Transcend as mafia in round 2 and honestly it doesn't do me any good to do this as mafia anyway. I'll just guarantee that I get killed if Transcend flips green.

You think Transcend is scum, so you decide to vote with him? WTF kind of logic is that? Why are you helping scum lynch someone?

[karnos]

ironstove reminds me of me in my first newbie game. I wonder if he will hammer Transcend?

[Transcend]

karnos is feeling town now

get the fuck off of him

get on innocentvillager or i'll maybe settle for soula.

[Transcend]

I feel that scum is in {Mori, Soula, innocentvillager}

I don't see anyone else being scum at this point.

[Skold]

Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

[Transcend]

K douchebag I'll stop spreading "bad theory" but watch me be right in postgame when you hand innocentvillager a cake walk scum win.

[innocentvillager]

ironstove reminds me of me in my first newbie game. I wonder if he will hammer Transcend?

@Karnos

, I got a huge town vibe from ironstove earlier but now he just seems trigger happy and will literally go for any vote. I'm becoming conflicted on him since his play has become almost radically differently from when he was townread.

Like, his most recent posts were:

Iron: Soula is scummy
Soula: blah blah blah
Iron: VOTE: SOULA
Soula: Fine vote me
Iron: VOTE: karnos
Iron: karnos is scummy but IV gives info

So my question here is, why does ironstove look like you in your first newbie game (I'm assuming you were town in that game)? I'm assuming you're referring to his later D1 play since you said it recently, which I can reconcile with newbscum play. I'm trying to figure out if ironstove actually has scum!motivation behind these posts or is just confused accusatory townie.

K douchebag I'll stop spreading "bad theory" but watch me be right in postgame when you hand innocentvillager a cake walk scum win.

Hey soda, no personal attacks on this site please. You can do whatever the fuck AtE you want on EM to win but you can AtE here without RL insults like "douchebag".

[innocentvillager]

Everything in the last few pages is dumb and probably ought to be ignored. This is what happens when I don't bring sense to this nonsense. Nobody has anything in terms of evidence. Nobody is at all guaranteed to be any alignment except yourself. Stop spreading bad theory plz.

Hey Skold, instead of blanketly telling everyone they're full of shit, I suggest you give examples as to what you think was full of shit and why, so you can "bring your sense to this nonsense".

If you're referring to the terrible baseless wagon on me I can understand lol but you should still engage with specifics instead of generalities.

[innocentvillager]

Eh, Fine. If it's going to come to that. But once I flip green, don't forget about Karnos and Transcend. Even if I suck so bad to get outed in the first round, I'm happy if it helps get a mafia.

Soula this kind of thinking is completely wrong. If you're town, you should never want to get lynched regardless. Town only has 2 chances to ML and then it's down to LYLO. Town should never want to waste an ML on themselves, no matter how confident they are in their reads (since a lot of times, they're wrong!). You'd be surprised that scum isn't necessarily always the one pushing a town wagon. Sometimes, wagons on town are completely devoid of scum. So just because someone flips town, doesn't mean people pushing that person are all immediately significantly more suspect.

[Enefpe no Time]

I iso'd Soula and I think he's maf. I was wrong in town reading him.

Agreed.

Dearest IV,

young man

, I am releasing my bony fingers your neck. You have flopped around enough to prove you have a moderate amount of righteousness. You are free, for now.

His reaction to the wagon was a bit flaily but I think its a combination of being brainwashed by em theory and playing a newbie game with people who arent necessarily newbies.

vote: soula

IV should be watched

[Enefpe no Time]

ms theory*

Tfw no coffee