Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Vedith]

le ego

Get on High hopes and vote with me

[HighHopes]

give me a couple seconds to read, hot damn.

[Vedith]

give me a couple seconds to read, hot damn.

1

[Vedith]

give me a couple seconds to read, hot damn.

2

[HighHopes]

VOTE: shaddowez

Self voting is not a townie move.

@light and @superbowl:

What did you discusse as a scumteam before the reroll? Which abilities did you discusse to select and why?

This post feels ugly to me. Not sure why, but I don't like it <:#

VOTE: kyndy101
Nice to see you again.

Likewise xD

Also upon thinking it I think it'd be rare for a reroll to include the previous scumteam as scum so
UNVOTE: Superbowl9

That's incorrect.

The whole thing about NJAC pushing the IC that makes him town is fucking dumb. If he didn't see the thing, then I find it reasonable for him, as scum, not to know he's IC and push on him. That is, pushing on town. Don't pull that bullshit logic.

Super feels hella sus B O I S

Sir Bastion is fucking TOWN AFIA HFUAHMY DUDES. Lycan feels town, so does Vedith. Not sure how I feel abotu NJAC or whatever their face, kyndy or whatever.

Light Ganski's p scummy, and I kinda wanna put them to the noose already.

Sora's notably null for me. I don't dislike or like their content thus far.

[HighHopes]

Superbowl feels better, and I like his content. I just can't shake the gut feeling he's scum, but I don't know why he's scum. It's starting to piss me off, but I just might want him dead anyway to see for future reference just how much I can trust my gut. Sounds fun.

Sora needs a noose.

Gonna have to talk to Ranger about why Sora's town, but I can see why Superbowl might be town. Hebee is definitely scum, needs a lynch today. That should be our lynch, in fact. Uh, NJwhatever is probably town, need to talk to Ranger about that as well.

I'm going to look more into Kyndoyhasidja or whatever. Light needs to die. I want a Hebee or Light lynch today, no question. Vedith can be town, that claim is p fucking townie.

[lilith2013]

Votecount 1.008

Sending a light poke (unofficial prod) to Raskolnikov, who is VLA.

kyndy101 [2]

Sir Bastion, HighHopes

Vedith [4]

kyndy101, light_ganski, SoraAdvent

Hebee Inc [1]

Raskolnikov

light_ganski [1]

Lycanfire

SoraAdvent [2]

NJAC, Vedith

Lycanfire [1]

Hebee Inc

NJAC [1]

superbowl9

Not Voting [1]

shaddowez

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2016-08-22 01:30:00)

pagetop count: Vedith 3 | NJAC 2 | light_ganski 2 | HighHopes 1 | shaddowez 1 | kyndy101 1

[superbowl9]

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

[Vedith]

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

This post is scum.

[Killthestory]

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

This post is scum.

Agreed

[superbowl9]

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

This post is scum.

Agreed

Agreed

[HighHopes]

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

This post is scum.

Agreed

I'm pretty shit at this whole hydra thing.

[Sir Bastion]

@bastion has your kyndy vote/read changed from her recent interactions?

at the time you asked I was kind of on the edge of my seat wondering how she'd respond to Vedith brushing her off in this post

but there hasnt been any reaction at all which is not necessarily scummy, but she does a reads post reiterating Vedith as her scum read and doesnt add to it just pointing back to what was honestly a very underwhelming case.

Which rubs me as someone who's happy to sit on vedith (especially since his wagon was blowing up and had grown since her case) without actually pushing, it's not like between her original case and her reads post he was quiet.

So i'm still leaning scum. But Vedith has been openly vouching for her and has put himself forward very clearly with the claim (further thoughts on that later) though the fact that he's only played town Kyndy makes the vouch unreliable, he can very well be just mistaken and is dooping himself into thinking she's town because of experience, when really he has none.

So yeah I'm still leaning scum. but she's not alone anymore.


SoraAdvent really rubs me wrong, his posts are hard to read i find and I get the impression they are more like summery over actual posting and I say impression because they are genuinely difficult to follow, his post in relation to Kyndy and Vedith requires having 3 pages open so you can cross reference what he is talking about to the original post.

I think he's mostly posting his train of thought directly hence it reads like someone chattering over a cup of coffee everytime I start reading it

Add he's given two reads list within 2 pages of each other. Which again is summery over actual posting.


Which is why I'm uncomfortable, chain of thought posts like this I associate more with scum, its a lot of info crying out that they are scumhunting, Look I did not 1 but 2 Reads lists. Aint I contributing!

But really he's sitting on the Kyandy wagon and his forward movement of what resembles his case was (oddly like Kyandy) to repeat he's already presented a case and to sit pretty:

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

His only new addition to the case is also the same point he dismisses in the same sentence.

On top of it I dont like that he's been very pushy on getting reads

which are honestly imo overrated, beyond who I think is scum you dont need to know who I think is town. If you are town it doesnt help you to know who I feel is town or not. I'll say directly to you what I think of you, and if you think I'm wrong tell me. How does it help a town player to know that we both agree that someone else is town?

It looks very towny asking for reads, but its busy body work. Like reminding everyone to wait for a claim before hammering. It looks town but doesnt mean a thing

and being pushy on it as Sora has been a few times

here

and here

is just forcing a point.

How does knowing what their reads going to affect your case on them?

So thats two players sitting pretty and one of them on the same wagon as me...

So UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: SoraAdvent


Anyone else to set me off?

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Godamn it Light!!!

[kyndy101]

HAHAHA IT'S HERE I FINALLY FINISHED IT

142 and 148 are what I was looking at. They seem to be aimed more for town's benefit.

Okay, 142 could be seen as town (We did it, Reddit!), but explain 148.
That's most of a pointless comment from myself because it has no meaning, what's town about it?

I think it is pretty town because it is offering more information / a different perspective for town, sooo

Spoiler: Le long post to be responded to:

NJAC: Starts off the game with an attempt to control the situation and lead the discussion with a question that imo didn't seem very relevant.

I wasn't trying to control the situation as you said. I was simply curious about the possible choices that a scumpair would discuss.

Also, very hypocritical from your part to call it irrelevant when you also commented on it and offered a reason of why I would want to bring that question.

Do you think that what had been written until my input on page 1 was more relevant?

Sheeping shaddowez b/c he's an IC isn't enough reason to vote someone

Why not? I voted Sora at the top of page 3 when we were just leaving RVS. If a random vote was enough reason for a vote, why sheeping the IC wouldn't be?

and 72 isn't much better.

In which way it isn't better? I just gave my reasons for the vote on Sora, there was not much to add. And why do you bring this now? Just for the sake of making an argument? If you had an issue with it why didn't you say anything at that moment?

73 is trying to seem relevant while trying to seem relevant while just digging up the grave of a discussion that died long ago in my mind

Please explain what do you mean by "trying to seem relevant". As I said I was simply curious, this is also explained because I was given the role of traitor before the reroll, so I had some time to think about the choices that my scumpartners had to face.

Because of his immediate attempt at controlling the situation early on and continually bringing up points that are dead, I have to say null-scum.

Now you are trying hard to make me look bad: "Continually bringing up points that are dead" . I went a little deeper in a point that wasn't dead at all in my mind. Which other "dead point" have I brought up? And again where am I trying to control the situation?

His recent post, 159, seems to redirect focus from NJAC voting Sora to why Shaddowez was thinking about it, and in 160 it seems like he's trying to make himself relevant after being accused of flying under the radar.

Please stop this silly tunnel and reread those posts, because you don't seem to understand them.

It's not exactly a tunnel if you do the same treatment for all other people. (I will admit, however, Vedith is kinda a tunnel for me so I was glad forsaking a reads lost as that had me look at other people)
Answering Qs in order:
1. No, I don't think what you had written previously was more relevant to the situation, but looking back on it, Vedith was right with it not helping very much, as it should technically be looked at as a different game and so it wasn't very relevant to this game.

2. RVS votes are just for pressure / information / fun, really. Your vote on Sora wasn't an RVS, and looked serious, and still is serious, so it is kinda more of a big deal than RVS and thus shouldn't be compared to RVS imo. Therefore, sheeping someone just because they are conftown isn't the best reasoning for voting someone who had just one post prior isn't ok to me.

3. Firstly, I usually look at things in retrospect to comment on them, hence this post being 2 pages ahead of the post I am responding to. 72 isn't much better than sheeping the IC / not giving reasoning better than sheeping the IC.

4. I mean "trying to seem relevant" (btw there is a typo in my original post I meant to say "trying to stay relevant while just digging up [etc etc]) by making yourself seem useful / important and thus townie by adding something to the discussion, however I consider that discussion you brought up dead. Also, again, the reroll should probably be regarded as a different game at this point.

5. As I stated, you attempt to control the situation in your first few posts by directing the conversation towards the pre-reroll decisions. Also, I misspoke, I was only trying to say that you brought up a dead point again.

Spoiler: Just wanted to say thanks for clearing this up

@57: Completely agreed that Vedith didn't see that the IC was confirmed by the mod and was playing otherwise.

Okay this has been going on for a while now and I think it's about time i put in my 2 cents.

I think the main problem here is in semantics (more specifically the word "look"), so I'm going to edit some language in posts here, signified by

this blue

.
It all starts with this post:

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for

a modpost to tell them that there is

an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

Then kyndy misinterprets what shaddow means by that "look":

@shaddowez - Pretty sure he could've just missed lilith saying you were town

It's definitely possible, but don't you think scum would look for an IC in a game where it's a known possible role?

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

kyndy's "look" here means to hunt for by playing the game, much like the mafia would "look" for a traitor in this setup were they to choose to not recruit.

THAT misunderstanding leads to THIS misunderstanding:

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

Here Vedith interpreted kyndy's post as:

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for

them

the modpost telling them that there is an IC

XD

and responded sensibly (under that interpretation)

This whole thing then gets pretty much dropped until kyndy's 137 (the long vedith one)

But IC are conftown by mod at the beginning of the game, so why would scum need to look for them XD

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

But they don't have to worry about voting an IC anyways because the mod already conftowned them.

Because voting an IC can draw negative attention which scum don't want.

Plus, at this stage, only scum know how many roles there are for town.
Finding out that IC is one gives them a lot of information.

But they wouldn't need to vote the IC to know the IC is one because the IC is conftowned by the mod at the beginning of the game! This argument is so elementary, I don't understand why this was even offered up.

Here kyndy seemingly forgets what her interpretation of "look" was in 54 (probably because it was a really long time ago) and, as a result, quite humorously ends up completely agreeing with vedith's argument.

That brings us to sora's response to kyndy's post:

@57: Completely agreed that Vedith didn't see that the IC was confirmed by the mod and was playing otherwise.

We are in deep here folks. Sora interprets Vedith's 57/58 to be vedith using kyndy's definition of "look" (when he was actually using the shaddow definition of look), which makes vedith's post look as though he never even saw the IC modpost in the first place (which, in actuality, is not the case{see 23}).

/rabbithole

Spoiler: As for the rest of the post...

ONTO THE ACTUAL IMPORTANT STUFF

This segues on nicely into why I really don't like Vedith's recent postings. After he goes off on how I'm wrong on kyndy (which is fair enough, argument is always good), what seems to surprise me is that he doesn't go after anyone else.

I like this. Vedith's game seems to have been, as Sora states, focusing on one person at a time. This is reinforced by 23's "who's next" (as if he's going through a person by person checklist) and several other similar townlist posts (55, 115). His ISO also has a distinct lack of looking at a large amount of people in the same post (think the long sora/kyndy posts/reads lists) which suggests a "reactionary" type of play, as I believe Sora put it.

Combine this with the general lack of detail in his posts (51, 119) and it gives me the feeling that he's flying under the radar despite having the second highest post count. Someone who's that impressionable and makes empty statements (119 is again a prime example) is not someone I want to have around as town.

If you want me to give more detail or elaborate on something just ask. As I said in 119, I was reading Kindy leaning town, but I didn't want to add details because she was being pushed and I wanted to see her defense instead of defend her myself. WRT the naked vote on Sora in 51 I didn't feel the need to add details, but I gave them later on request.

That's exactly my point.
The fact that you don't see any need to provide your reasoning with a post leads to things like the naked vote or unjustified reads. The problem with these types of things (and what makes them anti-town) is two-fold:

1. There's a risk that nobody will ask you for your reasoning, whether because of forgetfulness or lack of curiosity, meaning less information for town
2. You can change what you choose to say your reasoning was between the time of your post and when you're asked about it. You can really easily manipulate info in this way.

That's why your attitude is anti-town and why I want you lynched.

@superbowl:

Again WRT 154: You seem to make some arguments against Vedith, and you literally say he's your "prime scumspect", yet you vote me. This seems very silly, why exactly am I "the best lynch option"?

Also, there's already a wagon formed on Vedith. If he's your prime scumspect why don't you support that wagon instead of forming a new one.

Pretty inconsistent

I just clarified why I want you lynched, but you bring up a good point here and I should probably clarify myself. Anti-town=/=scummy. Being anti-town doesn't necessarily mean I think you're scum, it just means I think that the town is better off without you. Being scummy means you're acting like the mafia would act. You can be pro-town and scummy or anti-town and towny (although these cases are admittedly rare).

My scumread on Vedith wasn't very strong when I made my post (it's grown stronger since), so you were the better lynch option, considering I'm not town reading you and you have an anti-town attitude. Even though I was/am slightly scumreading Vedith, as Bastion pointed out he provides content for the town to work with and thus it is better to keep him around. I'm fine with lynching either of you, I just think you need to go first. I'll join Vedith's wagon if it comes to that point where I'm obviously not going to get one on you/the vedith wagon seems like its going to be the actual D1 lynch, but otherwise why would my vote not be on the person I want to lynch most?

@NJAC: Can you please give reads of some sort? I'd love to see who you consider to be the prime suspect now, if you don't mind.

Yep, I was going to give my reads after commenting on some recent posts.

A bit of patience please

.

Leaning scum: Sora, superbowl.
Null: light, kyndy, Lycan, everyone else
Leaning town: Bastian, Vedith, shadow

This is why I don't just use my vote to wagon. By placing my vote on you (combined with some other people beginning to scumread you) you provide this reaction, which I can only see as a jumpy/nervous reaction lash-out against sora, along with a naked reads list.

Take a guess as to where the people who pushed/scumread NJAC go in his reads list. Very OMGUS-like, once again indicating nervousness. Maybe if you had some reasoning as to why you're reading people this way I would be able to dismiss this initial impression, but you haven't provided me with anything to say otherwise.

@NJAC are you still nullreading kyndy?

^^ This is good; this is towny. This bundled with clearing up the other disputes, towny. I have to say that this just adds to my readslist of why you're town. Anywho, you bring up some good points about NJAC; he's definitely been anti-town regardless. I agree with the "townies can be town and still be anti-town, and scum can be pro-town".

[...]There is a difference between not being in the thread like a majority of these players and posting and reading the thread but not actually solving the game. [...]

Can you clarify please? I think I might be misreading it. Also, welcome to the game ^_^

All you guys are unreadable like crazy.


~Bee

I find it odd that you said this after posting a readslist with only 3 null

@Vedith:

Who else is in the Town-Team now?

No one else yet.
Sir Bastion makes me wonder if he is trying to buddy me. I need to see more from everyone to decide.

I wonder why NJAC was wondering, but then remember that Vedith wasn't providing anything else for a readslist.

{Sir Bastion, Raskol}
{superbowl, Lycanfire, Sora}
{light, NJAC}
{kyndy, Hebee Inc, Vedith}
Vedith traitor, kyndy and Hebee groupscum.

Game solved.

I would like to see some evidence

I don't want to pester you too much, but before you do anything else Vedith could I get a reads list please?

No, you can't
I will give you my reads when I feel ready and justified.

You can however, watch my opinions progress as the day passes.

Considering that the wagons are heating up and this post
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vedith

How does the wagons heating up and that post correlate?

Spoiler:

Something came up: I'll not be able to finish my post to a satisfactory level today and I'm already 30 mins late so

I'll post what I do have now and finish off thoughts on the rest later. For now vote stays on Vedith, but highly suspicious of NJAC.

~~~~

NJAC - mentioned before briefly, but I don't like just blindly sheeping the IC by any means at all. Here in 59, he mentions his reasoning is that it's a nice place to be: that doesn't seem to me to be solid reasoning at all and seems to be an attempt to curry favor with the IC. Followup post attempting to explain his reasoning is weak at best. There is a gigantic flip in opinion between what he says here in 119 regarding my initial thoughts on Vedith in my more general reads post (when he says 'I agree with what you said about Vedith. I'm also not a fan of his recent posts.'), where he completely sheeps what I say on Vedith, to here in 162, where he claims that I'm suddenly switching onto Vedith. I already have had reservations about Vedith, but the fact that he suddenly switches on me for something like this is odd. I get the concern, definitely, but I think? I've put more than enough effort into explaining my positions that I'm not opportunistically voting someone.

Regardless, his behaviour overall is really really wishy-washy and also smacks of someone who's getting overly flustered very quickly. Now that in itself isn't bad, but placing it in the context of Vedith's recent actions and other reactions it makes it look worse. Seeing that the pressure is on him/Vedith, he instantly casts anyone who doesn't consider them to be towny in any way/shape/form as 'scum'. Looking at his reads list, made before superbowl's longer post, he considers myself and superbowl to be the most leaning scum, while considering Vedith and Bastion to be more towny. Superbowl and I have been the most offensive on NJAC so far. Following on from this, after superbowl's 177 where he

actually calls out NJAC

, he posts a rather baffling 180, where he '(likes) superbowl's 177', despite it being a post against him. Personally, I interpret this as being a way to defuse the tension between him and superbowl so the latter wouldn't suspect him at once, but at the very least the wishy-washiness is really really jarring. I'm gonna be honest, I'm not 100% sure on this read, but at this point I'm interpreting his actions as scum flailing.

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

Lycanfire - Reading kinda null on his first five or so posts. Both are relatively nothingish posts that imo are still fine in the early game, as nothing's set in stone yet. I don’t like how he basically hasn’t contributed at all to the game even in later posts as the game develops past even 100 or so, made clear in his RVS vote on 101 and not contributing at all to the game on 149, then being completely inactive for the last 24 hours or so. Definitely null leaning scum to me, at the very least.

Question to Lycanfire: can you provide reads, please?

(unfinished)

Superbowl - Probably town, has contributed a lot to the development of the town and provides very strong analysis overall. First person to post reads is definitely a plus in terms of kickstarting activity and moving past the RVS post. (unfinished)

~~~~

Pedit: OK, I'll respond to Vedith's 179 and 209. I'm really angry and tired, so expect this to be rambly. I won't be providing evidence/explanations yet but will hopefully do so over the course of the next day or so. Take this as a mini post on Vedith if you like.

179:

I want to know your meta before this. I haven't had the time/motivation to do so yet, but I really want to read it over the next couple of days to make my read stronger - because I don't know whether you naturally act like this or not. Basically, comparing your actions in this game with your previous town/scum actions will help my read on you be more certain.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make. Short, contributing something to the town and relatively non-commital. Also it's in the context of replying to kyndy, and she was confused as to what it meant - if you need me to explain this clearer I will.

209:

You're acting in a severely anti-town way. First, you continually refute the current arguments on kyndy and the like, which is fine in and of itself. However, you don't even bother to attack anyone else (your vote is still on kyndy from RVS, for goodness' sake), and you end up just distracting the town while making sure nothing's being done to further the game forward. You use straw man arguments to portray opposing people's arguments as stupid, you respond in posts that appear to contribute and be confident but are hilariously non-commital, and again don't bother pushing the game in any particular direction. I really want to hope that you're just town acting in a manner that's incredibly distracting and, if I may be a little bit blunt, kind of useless, but it makes sense to think you're scum who's deliberately trying to get you/your partners off the heat.

Your multiple posts may suggest you're active, but you're in reality saying nothing at all. You say things and don't back them up with anything other than a hand wave of things like 'The case on the random unvote is weak, and too weak for a vote on her imo. Her "defending herself" I disagree with.', which doesn't explain

WHY

you disagree at all.

In short, please actually contribute to the town by providing your reads instead of constantly refuting arguments and in general distracting the town.

~~~~

Reads List

Scum (S>W):

Vedith, NJAC, Lycanfire (a little less so), Kyndy

Null (S>T):

Hebee Inc, Raskolnikov (full null), Sir Bastion

Town (S>W):

shadow (conf), superbowl, HighHopes

Defo have confirmation bias here but w/e they're initial reads anyways.

I like your reads on NJAC, and agree with those of Lycanfire and Vedith (The latter has changed due to recent events) This is a pretty town post, to me :/

Spoiler: Le recent events

I want to know your meta before this.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make.

Scum found.
You want to know my meta, but you imply that you know it already from the type of posts I make.
This could be Vedith not being Vedith, but you have already decided that this is Vedith being Vedith while asking for meta on me.
And you can't say that this is wrong, because you are responding to a comment about me with saying that it's my usual play, just to ignore it (TYhis is what I get from, Vedith being Vedith).

Your reads are basically mirror with High Hopes (Who I haven't decided yet if I think scum or not)

Why did I keep my vote on Kyndy? I wanted to see what scum would use this to their advantage. In 156 he defends me voting Kyndy, in 220 he uses it for an excuse to push me as scum, but in a subtle way.

Now, second scum I feel is Light ("Oh no, you think 2 people voting you are scum?!"). The reason being 202 - This post is basically a copy of what's already in the game. What pinged me so hard about it?
"142 is townie" - After the discussion of my 142 post had already happened. I'm 100% sure that if I didn't question 146, he would have called that town. I want to know here what makes it town, I mean I know what makes it a town but, but does he? He is saying what has already been said, and making his opinion, while he actually has none.
His comment about Superbowl is basically - "Yeah, we got our mis lynch tomorrow"
I think what he did wrong here was look at me as an easier mis lynch, and automatically started to buddy anyone going this way. His town reads on people are because they find either me or NJAC as scum, and for nothing else.

I am Goon Cop btw.

Counter claim me or believe me! I have no reason to claim so early as scum, and the gambit of knowing that there is a Goon cop is too big this early with such weak pressure.

The reason I have been holding out for my main comments is because I knew scum would try and use this as an excuse, as they don't actually scum hunt.

Kyndy is town
NJAC is town
Lycanfire is town
Vedith is town
Shadow is town

That's 5 players already town.

Going to setup.
So 196 is terrible.
I've been in the setup and played enough times to know that not taking anything is bollocks, and just lucky.

These are what we have a chance of getting

Goon Cop ~ Only good if nothing is picked (hitting 2/3 scum) or if traitor is recruited only (hitting 3/3 scum)
Roleblocker ~ Not effective overall, scum can fake not killing to out the role, scum can also pick a roleblocker themselves, and lets face it, most the time you're going in blind
Tracker ~ Number 1 of the effective roles in all scenerios, regardless how many scum powers, this is 1 of 2 only good roles
Bodyguard ~ I don't rate this in the setup, the role dies, that's all
Vigilante ~ More chance than not, shoots town. The only risk with this role is finding the traiter (see below)
Innocent Child (reveal at start of day one) ~ Scum already know 1 role, great, it's a really good role for scum side.

The perfect setup to counter these are recruit scum, JOAT and Role Cop / Bulletproof (Doesn't matter as both have a benefit, I prefer Role Cop though, as if the vigilante hits you, he already knows)
The reason for this is because then the Goon cop only hits 1/3, making the role useless overall. Roleblocker just has more roles to block, doesn't have great effect early game (maybe more later game.
Tracker can be ninja OP. Other than that, Tracker will always hurt scum in the long run.
BG - Dies
Vigilante just has more PR to kill, whoop whoop
Innocent child is just destined to die, and destined to be lazy in the game as they are proven town.

Having day talk doesn't change much to a good team who can talk and organise at night. Give words starting on a post as a code etc.
Having 3 scum working together works so well, as pushing and lynching a traitor gives you no town credit at all.

Challenge me.

Also @Everyone - Stop saying you are going to do a big post, this isn't fucking school, put your hands down and just do one.

.... Buuuut, then, Vedith swoops in with a bombshell O_O I can't imagine this plot being done by scum, and I have to say this sounds more like Vedith than the previous posts, wherein I was 90% sure he was scum and terrible at hiding it and I was 10% uncertain that I remembered his play. But even if it wasn't Vedith, this is a town post to me. UNVOTE: Vedith

I'm going to reread Sora's posts and Light's posts to see if there is scum motivation, and everyone else's posts actually, and see where that leads my next vote.

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Directing where the scum read goes.
Yeah... That's town!

Message for Kyndy - SARCASM!!!

Hahaha Ok ok subtle hint taken

Because scum would NK you??

Would they?
There's no proof to my claim (Although I know there is no CC) in no way does my claim put scum at risk, even more so if they have taken roles.

Possible if they are all goons!

I just want to say that as far as 262, Sora hasn't responded yet.

Scummy..

@ HighHopes - could you elaborate your read on Kyndy please

No.
(Especially since KTS will be doing most of the driving this game.)

scum can also pick a roleblocker themselves

False: mafia roleblocker is NOT a possible role this game.
Only town roleblocker.
Check the list of roles on the front page.
Possible mafia roles are {Bulletproof, Rolecop, JOAT}, but the JOAT has a 1x-ninja and 1x-strongman; it does not include a roleblock.

Ergo, roleblockers are a town role this game and the

only

way for Vedith to be roleblocked is if a town roleblocker targets him.
Keep this in mind.

That being said:
Vedith is not a lynch for today.

(What does KTS mean)

Superbowl feels better, and I like his content. I just can't shake the gut feeling he's scum, but I don't know why he's scum. It's starting to piss me off, but I just might want him dead anyway to see for future reference just how much I can trust my gut. Sounds fun.

Sora needs a noose.

Gonna have to talk to Ranger about why Sora's town, but I can see why Superbowl might be town. Hebee is definitely scum, needs a lynch today. That should be our lynch, in fact. Uh, NJwhatever is probably town, need to talk to Ranger about that as well.

I'm going to look more into Kyndoyhasidja or whatever. Light needs to die. I want a Hebee or Light lynch today, no question. Vedith can be town, that claim is p fucking townie.

I like the fact that I can read your posts in my imagined Dave Strider voice. Aside from that, can you explain the Sora read? I haven't looked again at her posts yet, but from my last reads on her she was null-town. I'm willing to go on Vedith's hunch though.

Can we please stop doing this "x is town" "This post is scum" etc. as just naked statements
It really doesn't help the game or anyone in it if you're not gonna actually give the reasoning behind a certain conclusion.
It doesn't have to be long sora style shit but just a few words would be helpful.

Hmm

Spoiler:

@bastion has your kyndy vote/read changed from her recent interactions?

at the time you asked I was kind of on the edge of my seat wondering how she'd respond to Vedith brushing her off in this post

but there hasnt been any reaction at all which is not necessarily scummy, but she does a reads post reiterating Vedith as her scum read and doesnt add to it just pointing back to what was honestly a very underwhelming case.

Which rubs me as someone who's happy to sit on vedith (especially since his wagon was blowing up and had grown since her case) without actually pushing, it's not like between her original case and her reads post he was quiet.

So i'm still leaning scum. But Vedith has been openly vouching for her and has put himself forward very clearly with the claim (further thoughts on that later) though the fact that he's only played town Kyndy makes the vouch unreliable, he can very well be just mistaken and is dooping himself into thinking she's town because of experience, when really he has none.

So yeah I'm still leaning scum. but she's not alone anymore.


SoraAdvent really rubs me wrong, his posts are hard to read i find and I get the impression they are more like summery over actual posting and I say impression because they are genuinely difficult to follow, his post in relation to Kyndy and Vedith requires having 3 pages open so you can cross reference what he is talking about to the original post.

I think he's mostly posting his train of thought directly hence it reads like someone chattering over a cup of coffee everytime I start reading it

Add he's given two reads list within 2 pages of each other. Which again is summery over actual posting.


Which is why I'm uncomfortable, chain of thought posts like this I associate more with scum, its a lot of info crying out that they are scumhunting, Look I did not 1 but 2 Reads lists. Aint I contributing!

But really he's sitting on the Kyandy wagon and his forward movement of what resembles his case was (oddly like Kyandy) to repeat he's already presented a case and to sit pretty:

kyndy - I've already expressed my thoughts on her overreactive behaviour which you can find here. As mentioned in this post, however, I like the post she made with regards to Vedith, at least in its intent - if I'm not mistaken, someone said scum wouldn't tunnel on someone this early, and to be honest I kind of agree with that statement, though not fully. In addition, although I do think her reads are playing it super safe right now (not deviating too much from myself/superbowl's reads which are posted on the same page), I like the effort shown towards straight-up contributing to the town. I still have my reservations, so I'm gonna say null leaning scum with some confidence (as oxymoronic as that is)

His only new addition to the case is also the same point he dismisses in the same sentence.

On top of it I dont like that he's been very pushy on getting reads

which are honestly imo overrated, beyond who I think is scum you dont need to know who I think is town. If you are town it doesnt help you to know who I feel is town or not. I'll say directly to you what I think of you, and if you think I'm wrong tell me. How does it help a town player to know that we both agree that someone else is town?

It looks very towny asking for reads, but its busy body work. Like reminding everyone to wait for a claim before hammering. It looks town but doesnt mean a thing

and being pushy on it as Sora has been a few times

here

and here

is just forcing a point.

How does knowing what their reads going to affect your case on them?

So thats two players sitting pretty and one of them on the same wagon as me...

So UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: SoraAdvent


Anyone else to set me off?

Vedith, if you're not fake claiming and you scum read me I request that you investigate me tonight.

Godamn it Light!!!

Well, this explains the scumreads on Sora pretty well. Time to go reread (JK that'll be tomorrow)

[kyndy101]

(I spoilered a hella ton of posts because I don't think anybody wants that post as long as possible


ALSO: lilith, what is up with the pagetop count XD)

[Vedith]

Lilith votes me herself. :p

[Lycanfire]

sora/114 no idea why he thought i was being serious with vedith i was looking for a place to park my vote. vedith was convenient, not good. he gave me a reason to move my vote, so i did so, and light_ganski gave me another reason, so i did so. seemed like i was brought up just as an excuse to justify unvote.

vedith/bastion responses pr good but i was interested in seeing where day would go if bastion did sheep me because he was looking pretty town.

kyndy/137 case bad, could go into it if it isn't obvious

superbowl/154 i liked this post

sora/156 if i suspected that vedith was chainsawing kyndy S+S i would have kept my vote on kyndy and watch vedith go nuts. he posts enough that he probably wouldn't be able to help himself. their interactions look T+S or T+T. so this vote is bad.

njac/159 no idea why kyndy is so town but i like pressure on her just to see peoples reactions.

njac/160 saltpost. might be NAI but strange votes can have town intent to draw scum. not considering that and getting defensive about it seems scummy.

kyndy/167 disagree with practically everything there

superbowl/177 post analysis is good but the problem is that he's only doing it because his reads are wrong, not sure how much i like it.

hebee/193 i was disappointed in this post. pretty low effort to go for me but then he tries to townread kyndy and njac which are the two topics shitting up the thread at the time. think it was ultimately good.

HH entrance good, didn't hate kyndy vote

light ganski #202 should just scumlean me if they're going to say i'm antitown. i play antitown all the time but i know my limits. you need people to start shit. take a look at newbie 1718 i flat out lied about my scumteam picks and called the real scumteam right after my target posted. if you wanna say i'm antitown with town motives say it and townlean me or say i'm a scumfucker and vote me. saying i'm antitown is reading me which means i'm not null. nulling me with an antitown sticker over it is doubtcasting. "really not liking njac" over a natural opinion is ??????????

vedith/216 actually, i'd expect a traitor to be as aggressive as possible...

sora/220 not sure why he's "baffled" by njac, also echoes hebee's reason for voting me while doing a heck of a lot less with many more words.

vedith/222 probably true

light_ganski/224 what does this even accomplish? reads like scum wifom or S+S interaction.

light_ganski/229 either make a post like 224 or claim pr don't do both seems convincing that 224 wasn't made with any sort of strategy in mind

light_ganski/238 we know scum took a power how? three pr claims means one could be a bluff.

superbowl/239 i liked how he trying to lead town up until he flipped his vote for no damn reason. if your top scumread claims goon cop, you grill your top scumread until you're sure they're goon cop. either superbowl is scared scum or this is S+Traitor interaction.

HH/254 pretty much mirrored my reads, seemed suspicious until i caught up. don't see how sora is null w/ three scum set up but beyond that there isn't anything wrong in this post.

HH/255 ?????????





town { shadow, vedith, bastion }
townlean { hebee, HH, njac, kyndy }
null { Raskolnikov (who the fuck is this person? }
scumlean { sora }
scum { light_ganski, superbowl }

kyndy's a pretty weak townread by the way. 100% votes and associatives landed her there, posts would have been scum. hebee is two times more townie than HH.

[Lycanfire]

told you that the game was solved

[Vedith]

told you that the game was solved

The scary thing is, I am in the same boat with the reads.
Games are never that easy.

[Lycanfire]

that's why i have ganski before super and sora as a lean. need to play super safe as scum and leave my options open.

[Lycanfire]

my real post will be up in the morning by the way, thanks for responding to a jokepost.

[Vedith]

Put your hand down.
If you're going to post just post!

[Lycanfire]

i worked two shifts today. it's 4:26AM and i got through all my degenerate mafia games, and i've been going to sleep all week at 4-5 to wait up at 6-7. i get today and tomorrow off. that means i'm free from having people tell me what to do.

you're not even my real dad.

[Lycanfire]

i worked two shifts today. it's 4:26AM and i got through all my degenerate mafia games, and i've been going to sleep all week at 4-5 to wake up at 6-7. i get today and tomorrow off. that means i'm free from having people tell me what to do.

you're not even my real dad.

ebwop

[Vedith]

I don't even.