Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[SnarkySnowman]

Could someone explain the Snarky wagon?

tl;dr I'm lynchbait and a lot of people are hopping on because of that.

Want some examples?

Cheetory6 - Says I'm scum / bad town because I'm not actively catching up, and coming in and commenting with a one liner on recent stuff. Also cited like 3 games where I did that as town. Wagon is tunnel-y and doesn't really give much opinion on other players.

MoI - Hopped on me like page 12 or something. Is not a current vote. I know he generally dislikes my play though, so not sure if that has any effect on it.

Cephrir - Hopped on when I made a comment about how he suggested I was a jester. Actually I think ceph is town, though.

Grib - I think because I haven't done anything yet??

camntsuki - never actually explains why the vote on me. 708 alludes to it (see cephrir??) but that doesn't make sense in context.

hiplop - by far the worst vote on me. 736 and 769 to 777 and 786 don't follow well at all.

keyenpeydee - is just sheeping everyone else.


But that aside, I'm still catching up. Readlist and stuff coming soon.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah if you say that one more time I'm going to deathtunnel you. I said you were giving the false impression that you were catching up/almost caught up when you weren't which is clearly a complete load of shit. You're low content. Being dishonest and slimy. And engaging me on a shitty simplified surface level and it's pissing me off.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I regret engaging Cheetory on Snarky when he first questioned my Snarky read if only because in hindsight I probably should have given Snarky some more rope to hang himself with. But that’s out the door. 64 is not a post Town Snarky makes. His complete lack of reaction to my post on my success of reading him in the past makes sense from a scum perspective. I had called him scum but my vote was still on Diamond. Best course of action is not to “poke the bear” and maybe let my early read wash away in the obvious tidal wave of posts every Large game gets Day 1.

On top of Snarky and hiplop I’d also be satisfied with a camntsuki wagon after that weak-ass entrance. After supposedly reading 24 pages of material.

@farside

– please positive confirm or deny Diamond’s assertion in 622 that you claimed a Negative Utility role on Page 5.

--

Hiplop’s reaction to my mild prodding is also makes me lean scum on him. Looks like the fake outrage Radiant Cowbells is probably the best template for this type of play on-site currently. His follow-up to it was to toss out some buzzwords (“Throw Shade, Fencesit”) and cobble together a small case to support his OMGUS which ironically is an attempt to “look busy” given he accused me of that exact fact.

But let’s address something that I think got away in the hiplop’s initial spamming –

THE FACT THAT HE SAYS THE "OH THIS BIG FIGHT IS TVT" IS REAL FUCKING BAD

Suddenly the context of your initial supposed scum play on me just changed here. Fence-sitting is not taking any position. Calling the Cheet / Fox slap-fight a Town versus Town fight would be the exact opposite of that. The fact you can’t even be sure what I am supposedly scum for doing is a sign you aren’t scum-hunting but just looking to find things you can paint as scummy.

We know I never called it TvT so this quote is a lie. Furthermore several people actually did call it TvT and you somehow didn’t bother to call them scum for it. Why is that?

eh snarky gets lynched day one like literally every game

Nope. In fact he didn’t get lynched as Town Day 1 in any of my joint games with him. Try again to dissuade a wagon on him?

It just

never feels good to lynch that snowman

Yup you did.

snarky being lynchbait is irrefutable, is what I am saying

Ooo and again.

VOTE: snarky

trusting you. Can't read the snowman

And the 180 based 100% on sheeping others when you’ve just made multiple statements about how he’s not a good lynch?

Awkward Bus Hop Engage!

--

As far as negative utility roles are concerned, I'm against the idea. I have reasons, but I can't as explaining would break a rule.

I think I know where this is coming from and if so I disagree completely. But for the record … is your “breaking rules” related to your recent finished Princess Bride game? If so having a Miller or Ascetic not claim based on that game makes no sense to me.

--

4. Yeah, no way. Every game will have, if not a miller, than an ascetic.

This is bad. Given your ranting in the Dead Thread and postgame of Shos’ Mini I think you need to leave set-up spec / analysis to others because you don’t seem very proficient at it.

Page 2: farside's saying "this is something my son watched" leaves me uneasy. It was a "crumb" about her flavor, even though nobody asked for it. I know it doesn't give much at all, but it still leaves me uneasy.

Why in any way, shape or form do you think it is in any way alignment indicative? This isn’t the first time you’ve floated this.

[keyenpeydee]

MoI seems town. Helpful. *claps*

[Medical Junkies]

Just because someone is helpful doesn't mean they are town.

~M

[Cheetory6]

Hi mala.
You've got MOI summing up why he thinks Snarky is scum on this page and I've summarized why I think Snarky is scummy best here:

MOI said that about Snarky.
Which isn't really all that special.
What is special is that Snarky then proceeded to coast on a few silly one-liners and one-off questions while claiming to be only ten pages behind.
Meaning he had to have read either MOI's multiple posts indicating his read/record on reading him, my responses to him bringing it up or he's lying about actually reading up that far.
I don't particularly think any of those three options feel particularly town.

Could someone explain the Snarky wagon?

Is that sufficient?

[Cheetory6]

Also cited like 3 games where I did that as town

There's a difference between promising a catch-up and then not delivering and saying you're caught up -x number of pages when you're not.
There's also a difference between that and feigning outrage when you get called out on it.
If you'd come back to the game and been like "eh sorry yeah I did miss things during my catch-up" then I would maybe be re-evaluating, but you're literally digging your heels in and selectively throwing shade and it just feels dishonest.

[farside22]

hiplop's vote could be a bus.

I see hippy wking to voting that quickly hopp8ng on the bw, I'm leaning no on that bus.

[farside22]

I regret engaging Cheetory on Snarky when he first questioned my Snarky read if only because in hindsight I probably should have given Snarky some more rope to hang himself with. But that’s out the door. 64 is not a post Town Snarky makes. His complete lack of reaction to my post on my success of reading him in the past makes sense from a scum perspective. I had called him scum but my vote was still on Diamond. Best course of action is not to “poke the bear” and maybe let my early read wash away in the obvious tidal wave of posts every Large game gets Day 1.

On top of Snarky and hiplop I’d also be satisfied with a camntsuki wagon after that weak-ass entrance. After supposedly reading 24 pages of material.

@farside

– please positive confirm or deny Diamond’s assertion in 622 that you claimed a Negative Utility role on Page 5.

--

Hiplop’s reaction to my mild prodding is also makes me lean scum on him. Looks like the fake outrage Radiant Cowbells is probably the best template for this type of play on-site currently. His follow-up to it was to toss out some buzzwords (“Throw Shade, Fencesit”) and cobble together a small case to support his OMGUS which ironically is an attempt to “look busy” given he accused me of that exact fact.

But let’s address something that I think got away in the hiplop’s initial spamming –

THE FACT THAT HE SAYS THE "OH THIS BIG FIGHT IS TVT" IS REAL FUCKING BAD

Suddenly the context of your initial supposed scum play on me just changed here. Fence-sitting is not taking any position. Calling the Cheet / Fox slap-fight a Town versus Town fight would be the exact opposite of that. The fact you can’t even be sure what I am supposedly scum for doing is a sign you aren’t scum-hunting but just looking to find things you can paint as scummy.

We know I never called it TvT so this quote is a lie. Furthermore several people actually did call it TvT and you somehow didn’t bother to call them scum for it. Why is that?

eh snarky gets lynched day one like literally every game

Nope. In fact he didn’t get lynched as Town Day 1 in any of my joint games with him. Try again to dissuade a wagon on him?

It just

never feels good to lynch that snowman

Yup you did.

snarky being lynchbait is irrefutable, is what I am saying

Ooo and again.

VOTE: snarky

trusting you. Can't read the snowman

And the 180 based 100% on sheeping others when you’ve just made multiple statements about how he’s not a good lynch?

Awkward Bus Hop Engage!

--

As far as negative utility roles are concerned, I'm against the idea. I have reasons, but I can't as explaining would break a rule.

I think I know where this is coming from and if so I disagree completely. But for the record … is your “breaking rules” related to your recent finished Princess Bride game? If so having a Miller or Ascetic not claim based on that game makes no sense to me.

--

4. Yeah, no way. Every game will have, if not a miller, than an ascetic.

This is bad. Given your ranting in the Dead Thread and postgame of Shos’ Mini I think you need to leave set-up spec / analysis to others because you don’t seem very proficient at it.

Page 2: farside's saying "this is something my son watched" leaves me uneasy. It was a "crumb" about her flavor, even though nobody asked for it. I know it doesn't give much at all, but it still leaves me uneasy.

Why in any way, shape or form do you think it is in any way alignment indicative? This isn’t the first time you’ve floated this.

Not a negative utility role, just a character that is considered negative.

[Grib]

I'm not especially sympathetic to people who /know/ they're lynchbait and make no effort to change it.

Citing it to deter people from lynching you is pretty bad.

[Grib]

hiplop's vote could be a bus.

I see hippy wking to voting that quickly hopp8ng on the bw, I'm leaning no on that bus.

Could you rephrase this with less abbreviations?

[keyenpeydee]

Just because someone is helpful doesn't mean they are town.

~M

Did I say he's a fully town? He just seems town.

[DiamondSentinel]

@MoI

Setup speculation typically works well. Shos' game was an entirely different situation (and still bullshit. It was borderline bastard. "You are unable to be killed [except by these sources which you have no idea about]". There's a difference between swingy and lying to people)

Additionally, there are a variety of situations that Farside's claim could turn up badly. One that I'm thinking of is a ludicrous claim that she then points back to it and says "see, I was already talking about it from day 1" (I don't know exactly how it would work. I'm quite terrible at lying or figuring out ways in which someone would lie in some made-up, hypothetical situation)

[Grib]

Looks like it was a flavor softclaim.

[Cephrir]

Setup speculation typically works well.

a) it really doesn't outside of normals
b) you missed the point

[DiamondSentinel]

I'm not especially sympathetic to people who /know/ they're lynchbait and make no effort to change it.

Citing it to deter people from lynching you is pretty bad.

Admitedely, though, there are certain times that you can't really avoid being lynchbait. Oftentimes, my scumhunting ends up really really weirdly misinterpreted, so they try to lynch me (granted, I've never been a D1 lynch, but I digress). Some people are just unorthadox.

Although it is a very weak self-defense. I do agree that you should never cite that as a reason that people shouldn't lynch you, and it does make me want to lynch him a bit.

PEdit: And the role often fits the flavor.

PPEdit: It might not for you, Ceph, but with the review process, setups are pretty predictable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI - Hopped on me like page 12 or something. Is not a current vote.

I know he generally dislikes my play though, so not sure if that has any effect on it.

I just voted him on page 28 or so specifically after he claimed to have missed my bad and forth with Cheet on page 13. So it not being a current vote is purely incorrect.

And the bolded makes me confident that he's scum. Because he knows what I Town read him I don't push him and actively try to lynch scum-reads. Like in Inspirational when I lynched scum looking to lynch him. Or in Open 633 where I tried to lynch scum Ranger and specifically said I didn't see any scum motivation in his play. Even after games like Fire and Ice Mafia where he chose to wagon me at deadline with absolutely no reasoning instead of helping hammer the scum counterwagon I had pushed all Day 2.

[Cephrir]

I can assure you, I am going to be much better at setup spec than you.

I just only do it when it's appropriate, instead of making baseless statements like "every game has a miler or an asceitc." Watch how easy it is for me to debunk that claim.

Let's look at the most recently ended large themes that aren't open setups.

I'm skipping the first two because they don't say what the roles do in the first post.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65809 oh look, no miller or ascetic.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66574 also no miller or ascetic.
another one i'll skip because it would require effort to figure out what the roles are
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66116 and you guessed it, no miller or ascetic.

tell me more about how much you know about typical mafia setups.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Additionally, there are a variety of situations that Farside's claim could turn up badly. One that I'm thinking of is a ludicrous claim that she then points back to it and says "see, I was already talking about it from day 1" (I don't know exactly how it would work. I'm quite terrible at lying or figuring out ways in which someone would lie in some made-up, hypothetical situation)

Frankly this is absurd. There is no way you can extrapolate from her claim that she got a character her child watched (which could be HUNDREDS of characters regardless of said child's age) that her comment is some sort of soft-claim. That you can't explain it effectively isn't helping you ... it looks like you are just looking for mudslinging material instead of actually hunting for scum.

[keyenpeydee]

*searches ascetic role because I have no clue what it is*

PEdit: Agreeing with MoI but definitely need to read more.

[MagnaofIllusion]

PPEdit: It might not for you, Ceph, but with the review process, setups are pretty predictable.

You need to stop because you clearly don't know what you are talking about ...

[DiamondSentinel]

Cephrir, let me rephrase that, then. I have not been in a Theme game without either a miller or an ascetic. Therefore, until I am in one, I will continue to follow my intuition.

MoI, it was a simple statement that I didn't like that statement for some reason I couldn't quite identify. It wasn't any type of mudslinging. (Also, stop basing your opinions of me off of GTA mafia. Only me and Firebringer truly know what went down with us there)

PEdit: Ascetic can't be targetted by any non-killing role.

[Cephrir]

okay but a) i just showed you why that's stupidand b) no one has claimed negative utility in this game ergo c) shut up??

[Grib]

Is this argument about setup spec important.

[Cephrir]

no i'm just really frustrated with ds in general and it's making me not want to do anything except sass him