Mini Normal 1823 - Game Over

[BlackStar]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

[Vedith]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

On the edge of my seat.

[Xkfyu]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

And you wonder why you are constantly mislynched...

[BlackStar]

I can't tell if Snake is noob town digging his own grave or just silly scum. Lots of votes on him in a short amount of time is a bit suspect.

He thinks that the wagon is suspicious for forming quickly even though it had a justifiable reason for forming: someone being caught in a lie

Speed wagons on D1 don't always mean scum is on it, it mostly depends on the person being wagoned. I'm slightly leaning towards Snake being noob town who is trying to show off by making what he thinks are astute observations. So that being said, there's a good chance scum is on his wagon, as he is easy prey for them.

Not saying this can't happen, but I have never seen noobtown enter a game and try to show off. Seems like a stretch for such an early read.

Well reads need to start somewhere, no?

His logic is ripped apart here and instead of acknowledging that, he weakly tries to keep justifying what he said.

I think snake contradicted himself pretty hard

But saru defending his contradiction looks more like he knows that snake is town rather than actually town reading snake.

I refuse to believe that the forming bw was telling for him as well.

I.

Refuse.

I'm not defending any kind of contradiction

. That's a mis-rep.

So if someone is caught in an obvious lie, you think that people shouldn't vote for them?

This seems like a loaded question. You'd have to prove to me that it was an "obvious" lie. From my understanding,

he's being voted for contradicting himself

, not lying. These are two different things. So what's the lie and what's the contradiction?

The contradiction was a lie. He defended his vote and then said it was just an RVS vote. If it was an RVS vote, why was he justifying it so much? Because it wasn't an RVS vote. Which means that he lied.

This is a good point, and that's why I said I wasn't sure at the start whether he was silly scum or not,

because that kind of blatant contradicting

is hard(but not impossible) for scum to do at the start of the game, as they tend to be more cautious overall in relation to that. I assume that newer players are more prone to making contradictions than their experienced counterparts, but whether that newer player is town or scum is where things start to get complicated.

I'm going to wait and see what Snake has to say about his experience level and the wagon that formed on him before I decide to cast a vote.

He said he wasn't defending a contradiction in one post, and then in all the posts after that he admits that Eagersnake contradicted himself but still tries to say that the contradiction wasn't scummy. We all know that he'd been defending eager, but he keeps denying it and it looks to me like he wants to distance himself from eager.

Okay then saru: why do you get mled so much?

Thanks for understanding

Guess I'm just naturally scummy. Sad times.

Weak ATE

Ok so if snake is town, then who do you think is scum Mr. Saru?

I don't think Snake is town. Try again Mr.Transcend.

If you don't think he's town, why have you been questioning his wagon? Why have you been protecting him all this time?

it doesn't matter if the contradiction wasn't intentional
it's not like a scumslip is intentional
I'm liking this saru wagon a lot

Then by that logic, anyone who contradicts themselves is conf-scum? k.
I like my wagon a lot too. Easy way to catch scum when I flip town. hehehe

Yep, all 7 on your lynching wagon will be scum. Good catch.

It'll be easy to tell by their shitty reasoning whose scum. Don't worry, right after my hammer I'll give the low-down. Town can thank me later.

Well then, what the hell is everyone waiting on? If you can solve it just from your lynch, then sacrificing you to find ALL the scum is a no-brainer.

That's what I'm saying!

I don't consent to my death. I haven't voted myself. y u lie

Another contradiction

[BlackStar]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

And you wonder why you are constantly mislynched...

What? I don't have cases prepared on everyone just waiting to be used. I have suspicions about people and then when it gets really strong or someone asks me for a case, then I make one.

[Xkfyu]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

And you wonder why you are constantly mislynched...

What? I don't have cases prepared on everyone just waiting to be used. I have suspicions about people and then when it gets really strong or someone asks me for a case, then I make one.

Lol once again, you don't read context.

I was talking about the fact that you still believe there to be a case on Saru, not that you didn't have one ready to lay out.

[BlackStar]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

And you wonder why you are constantly mislynched...

What? I don't have cases prepared on everyone just waiting to be used. I have suspicions about people and then when it gets really strong or someone asks me for a case, then I make one.

Lol once again, you don't read context.

I was talking about the fact that you still believe there to be a case on Saru, not that you didn't have one ready to lay out.

That has nothing to do with context. Your post could've been read either way. If you want people to understand you, say what you mean instead of being snarky. And there is a case on Saru. I just made it

[Xkfyu]

I'm working on the case against Saru. Hold on for a while

And you wonder why you are constantly mislynched...

What? I don't have cases prepared on everyone just waiting to be used. I have suspicions about people and then when it gets really strong or someone asks me for a case, then I make one.

Lol once again, you don't read context.

I was talking about the fact that you still believe there to be a case on Saru, not that you didn't have one ready to lay out.

That has nothing to do with context. Your post could've been read either way. If you want people to understand you, say what you mean instead of being snarky. And there is a case on Saru. I just made it

You're right. My bad.

We still aren't lynching Saru, though.

[algebra]

UNVOTE: gonna have to catch up :/ 12 pages ugh

[Xkfyu]

Ok Zyf, here are my reads, just like I promised.

Town

:

Gerry

- Posts 209 and 302

Saru

- Post 585

Transcend

,

Sonia

,

Zyf

- All town, Too much to explain. Please don't make me.

Null

:

BlackStar

Lowell

texcat

Scum

:

algebra

- Weak reason for such a strong town read in Post 36. Actually, now that I've gone be to see this, I'm gonna vote him for this, and his weird 55 and 57, which doesn't look at all natural to me.

Mimi

(not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.

TierShift

(not with Mimi) - For his reasoning to want to lynch Gerry in Post 143.

UNVOTE: TierShift

VOTE: algebra

[Mimikyu]

Mimi

(not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.

I said that I was looking at them because of their post count because it felt like we had lurkers. This is no secret.

FWIW your list of Town-->Scum is almost exactly the list based on post count (me being the exception).

[xSoniaNevermindx]

mfw xkfyu town reads all 3 mafia can I kms now or later

[Vedith]

Almost fell off my chair!

He thinks that the wagon is suspicious for forming quickly even though it had a justifiable reason for forming: someone being caught in a lie

So what's your point here? It's "justified" but scum can't opportunity vote here? Why shouldn't people have concerns with fast pushes?

His logic is ripped apart here and instead of acknowledging that, he weakly tries to keep justifying what he said.

I don't see this as ripped apart, I see this as someone rejecting his opinion immediately. Players that are intimidated will back down when people play the experience card. That's not alignment tell at all.

He said he wasn't defending a contradiction in one post, and then in all the posts after that he admits that Eagersnake contradicted himself but still tries to say that the contradiction wasn't scummy. We all know that he'd been defending eager, but he keeps denying it and it looks to me like he wants to distance himself from eager.

I mean, this is a weak contradiction. He's saying that he's not defending him for his contradiction (and you can see that the primary reason is because of a fast wagon). The second part is backing up his read. I agree, he's incorrect and it's a bad reason to town read someone, but it's not way scummy.
His action here was for seeing contradiction different to a lie, as the issue here isn't the fact of him WK or buddying (correct me if I'm wrong). This also depends on how you interpreter it, most people think that town shouldn't ever lie (I think that's wrong on certain situations) but town can contradict themselves in games with adjusted reads, forgetting or just reading incorrectly. I wouldn't consider these situations as a lie (just to point out the terrible reasoning from yourself in the argument).

Weak ATE

If it's weak, why is it in your case?
You posted yourself that people see you as scummy, so how can you even consider adding this?

If you don't think he's town, why have you been questioning his wagon? Why have you been protecting him all this time?

Okay, lets get this straight... There is more than 1 scum.
Scum bus for a start. Although I can see this comment as a complete flip flop from him and more swapping his opinion, this is part of your case I do like.. However, a bad wagon is a bad wagon. If I think you are scum (for example) and I think Saru is scum (for example) then you voting Saru will trigger my scumdar. I want to know the motives to it and what not.

Another contradiction

Looks like sarcasm.

Now, to counter you claim on him, why didn't you bring up this point

I'm slightly leaning towards Snake being noob town

I don't think Snake is town. Try again Mr.Transcend.

Scum don't hunt for actual reasons... All I'm saying.

[Xkfyu]

mfw xkfyu town reads all 3 mafia can I kms now or later

Yeah, I know you still think Transcend and Zyf are buddies, and I still think you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

Who's the third scum that I'm town reading though?

[Vedith]

Scum:
algebra - Weak reason for such a strong town read in Post 36. Actually, now that I've gone be to see this, I'm gonna vote him for this, and his weird 55 and 57, which doesn't look at all natural to me.
Mimi (not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.
TierShift (not with Mimi) - For his reasoning to want to lynch Gerry in Post 143.

Your TierShift reasoning is shit
I like the Mimi reason though. I'll ISO there next.

[Xkfyu]

Mimi

(not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.

I said that I was looking at them because of their post count because it felt like we had lurkers. This is no secret.

FWIW your list of Town-->Scum is almost exactly the list based on post count (me being the exception).

Yeah, but I don't think you looked at them. I think you just looked at the Activity Overview and claimed that you "hated" them. If you had ACTUALLY looked at them, you would have remembered that MariaR was actually Sonia.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

O I didn't see ved so I thought you tr him no he's the 3rd scum and i'm just reading all his posts like

"Bs bs bs"

[Mimikyu]

Mimi

(not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.

I said that I was looking at them because of their post count because it felt like we had lurkers. This is no secret.

FWIW your list of Town-->Scum is almost exactly the list based on post count (me being the exception).

Yeah, but I don't think you looked at them. I think you just looked at the Activity Overview and claimed that you "hated" them. If you had ACTUALLY looked at them, you would have remembered that MariaR was actually Sonia.

1) Did I say I hated them?

2) I did look at them, saw a couple comments from each, but obviously limited post counts which indicated lurking to me (clearly wrong on the Sonia one).

3) This only works if I'm terrible terrible noobscum, which A) I'm not a noob and B) I'm not scum.

[Vedith]

O I didn't see ved so I thought you tr him no he's the 3rd scum and i'm just reading all his posts like

"Bs bs bs"

10/10
Try and give something rather than throwing shit around.

[Saru]

He thinks that the wagon is suspicious for forming quickly even though it had a justifiable reason for forming: someone being caught in a lie

lol what? You're assuming that I think that contradictions are just inherently scummy, which I don't. It depends on the person making the contradictions. I've said that n00b town are more prone to making contradictions and plus, the one that Snake made was so minor that a speed wagon like that is suspect. If contradictions were just plain scummy, I'd be voting Zyf right now whose made a couple himself, but I'm not. Also, apparently, using your logic, Zyf is scum right alongside me because he's denied making contradictions aswell by saying he was "exaggerating." I find it hard to believe you think Zyf and I are both scum.

His logic is ripped apart here and instead of acknowledging that, he weakly tries to keep justifying what he said.

Ripped apart? lmfao. How was my logic ripped apart? Mimi said that it wasn't impossible for a n00b town to come and try to show it off, only that he hadn't seen it himself. Apparently anecdotal experiences are enough to rip logic apart?

He said he wasn't defending a contradiction in one post, and then in all the posts after that he admits that Eagersnake contradicted himself but still tries to say that the contradiction wasn't scummy. We all know that he'd been defending eager, but he keeps denying it and it looks to me like he wants to distance himself from eager.

The amount of convolution here is real. If I was trying to distance myself from my scum partner, that means I would have voted him outright with some lame excuse instead of questioning his wagon. Questioning his wagon WHEN NO ELSE WAS will make it almost impossible for people to not scumread him and I together. Apparently, according to you, I would reveal myself and my scum partner just a couple pages into a game. Yeah....no.

Weak ATE

Weren't you the one that said that you get ML'd as town aswell?

If you don't think he's town, why have you been questioning his wagon? Why have you been protecting him all this time?

Oh, the semantics are real with this one. I don't think he's ONE HUNDERED percent town. Do I really have to point that out? His contradiction itself isn't enough for me to scum read him, but he also hasn't done anything to this point that would make me say he's town OUTRIGHT. A slight(and I mean slight) town read comes from me thinking he's a n00b town who contradicted himself. His replace post indicates to me that my feelings are not unfounded.

Another contradiction

That wasn't a contradiction. I was saying that I agree you could probably solve the game from my lynch by looking at the shitty reasoning for the votes on me(slight trolling), not that I agree wholeheartedly to my own lynch. Reach more please.

Anything else?

[xSoniaNevermindx]

O I didn't see ved so I thought you tr him no he's the 3rd scum and i'm just reading all his posts like

"Bs bs bs"

10/10
Try and give something rather than throwing shit around.

All I need to do is look at your replacement

[Xkfyu]

Mimi

(not with TierShift) - Post 615. I checked the Activity Overview page at the time of this post, and TierShift and MariaR were both listed right next to each other at the bottom of the list (sorted by post count). See my 622.

I said that I was looking at them because of their post count because it felt like we had lurkers. This is no secret.

FWIW your list of Town-->Scum is almost exactly the list based on post count (me being the exception).

Yeah, but I don't think you looked at them. I think you just looked at the Activity Overview and claimed that you "hated" them. If you had ACTUALLY looked at them, you would have remembered that MariaR was actually Sonia.

1) Did I say I hated them?

2) I did look at them, saw a couple comments from each, but obviously limited post counts which indicated lurking to me (clearly wrong on the Sonia one).

3) This only works if I'm terrible terrible noobscum, which A) I'm not a noob and B) I'm not scum.

1) This is what you said:

Hey why don't we hate MariaR or Tiershift more?

That's close enough.

2) And blindly pushing lurkers as scum, when so much else has happened, is scummy.

3) I assume you'll understand if I don't just take your word for it?

[xSoniaNevermindx]

He thinks that the wagon is suspicious for forming quickly even though it had a justifiable reason for forming: someone being caught in a lie

lol what? You're assuming that I think that contradictions are just inherently scummy, which I don't. It depends on the person making the contradictions. I've said that n00b town are more prone to making contradictions and plus, the one that Snake made was so minor that a speed wagon like that is suspect. If contradictions were just plain scummy, I'd be voting Zyf right now whose made a couple himself, but I'm not. Also, apparently, using your logic, Zyf is scum right alongside me because he's denied making contradictions aswell by saying he was "exaggerating." I find it hard to believe you think Zyf and I are both scum.

His logic is ripped apart here and instead of acknowledging that, he weakly tries to keep justifying what he said.

Ripped apart? lmfao. How was my logic ripped apart? Mimi said that it wasn't impossible for a n00b town to come and try to show it off, only that he hadn't seen it himself. Apparently anecdotal experiences are enough to rip logic apart?

He said he wasn't defending a contradiction in one post, and then in all the posts after that he admits that Eagersnake contradicted himself but still tries to say that the contradiction wasn't scummy. We all know that he'd been defending eager, but he keeps denying it and it looks to me like he wants to distance himself from eager.

The amount of convolution here is real. If I was trying to distance myself from my scum partner, that means I would have voted him outright with some lame excuse instead of questioning his wagon. Questioning his wagon WHEN NO ELSE WAS will make it almost impossible for people to not scumread him and I together. Apparently, according to you, I would reveal myself and my scum partner just a couple pages into a game. Yeah....no.

Weak ATE

Weren't you the one that said that you get ML'd as town aswell?

If you don't think he's town, why have you been questioning his wagon? Why have you been protecting him all this time?

Oh, the semantics are real with this one. I don't think he's ONE HUNDERED percent town. Do I really have to point that out? His contradiction itself isn't enough for me to scum read him, but he also hasn't done anything to this point that would make me say he's town OUTRIGHT. A slight(and I mean slight) town read comes from me thinking he's a n00b town who contradicted himself. His replace post indicates to me that my feelings are not unfounded.

Another contradiction

That wasn't a contradiction. I was saying that I agree you could probably solve the game from my lynch by looking at the shitty reasoning for the votes on me(slight trolling), not that I agree wholeheartedly to my own lynch. Reach more please.

Anything else?

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU PPL SR THIS???????????

[Xkfyu]

O I didn't see ved so I thought you tr him no he's the 3rd scum and i'm just reading all his posts like

"Bs bs bs"

Oh I deleted snake and didn't add Vedith back. He's null for me. I've actually liked his responses since he's replaced in.

[Vedith]

HOW THE FUCK DO YOU PPL SR THIS???????????

At least you got something right!