Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[copper223]

3. but are you buddying me?????? omg

If memory serves town GM is paranoid about being buddied, so what I'm trying to assess is if other people here would be aware of this (which would increase the chances of this being her manipulatively playing into her meta) or if she likely wouldn't make the effort here because nobody would know about it anyway (which would make it more likely she's town-telling).

[goodmorning]

@Stapler That's just a way to explain my future behaviour, which will probably be more passive than the average player. I'm trying to get a grip of this form of Mafia play and people would probably have wondered why i'm not participating as much as the other if i didn't justify it some way or another. If i was to defend myself mid-Day 1 with "sorry i'm new" i feel like it would have made me very suspicious. I can see how that would make a fitting stance for a mafia player trying to go under the radar, so i understand you being wary of me.

As for the NL conversation, i don't have much to add, although i'm not quite sure why it dragged that long.

This is cool, but please respond to 53!

@GM: Oh man, I confused you with farside. Never mind.

Okay, what info that I miss and not talk about?

I see.

LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

For one example,

what do you think of Stapler's assertion that Ast might be playing the Newb card too much?

_{ok, you got that one} What do you think of Jae's entrance into the game? What do you think about copper, generally? There's a lot there, I think.

Jae/GM:
How many games have you played with each other?

Just one. Jae joined while I was on my break.

3. but are you buddying me?????? omg

If memory serves town GM is paranoid about being buddied, so what I'm trying to assess is if other people here would be aware of this (which would increase the chances of this being her manipulatively playing into her meta) or if she likely wouldn't make the effort here because nobody would know about it anyway (which would make it more likely she's town-telling).

I was at least 85% joking in this instance but it definitely is something I try to be aware of as an IC.

[JaeReed]

Jae/GM:
How many games have you played with each other?

One, I was town vig. GM was scum.

[Astyanaxx]

This is cool, but please respond to 53!

You mean any other input on the game generally ?

@Asty
We are still waiting for Kuroshira to join and oncilla said he knows how to play mafia but is unfamiliar with mafiascum, as far as newbies go this is one looks pretty balanced.

Why is it relevant how Jae treats the game wrt to there being more or less new players?

It's not, i'm just getting sidetracked.

[copper223]

Jae/GM:
How many games have you played with each other?

One, I was town vig. GM was scum.

Hmm. I went back and checked and you have been rolling town left right and center, that game where postie and (beeboy was it?) said they scum-read you from the start of the game, is it on another forum?

[goodmorning]

This is cool, but please respond to 53!

You mean any other input on the game generally ?

I mean the part where I said "go back and see if you see anything you'd call weird."

[JaeReed]

Jae/GM:
How many games have you played with each other?

One, I was town vig. GM was scum.

Hmm. I went back and checked and you have been rolling town left right and center, that game where postie and (beeboy was it?) said they scum-read you from the start of the game, is it on another forum?

Yup.
The game where Postie and beeboy scumread me was on the fallout shelter. A bastard marathon.
Here.

[Astyanaxx]

This is cool, but please respond to 53!

You mean any other input on the game generally ?

I mean the part where I said "go back and see if you see anything you'd call weird."

Not really, at that point. The discussion about lynch or no lynch seems to me like a meta debate between two players eager to discuss game theory, with little to no consequence on the game itself. Reasoning behind most of the votes has been sound - even on me - (except the random votes obviously), although it seems people are holding to some of their deductions... like you in 56.

[goodmorning]

Well, that looks like solid analysis of the big events, but I was hoping you'd go deeper.

[Astyanaxx]

I feel like i'm disappointing my master
Give me some time, i'll get to it like the rest of you !

[Accountant]

What do you think of Jae's entrance into the game? What do you think about copper, generally? There's a lot there, I think.

I didn't find Jae's entrance particularly remarkable. For all that you claim to play conservatively, I find copper's play to be even more conservative - but there I'm stuck without a clue, because I don't know how to treat conservative copper(no meta, etc.)

I will say that I didn't like 75. The excessive amount of question marks means GM is almost certainly joking, which means it reads to me as faked paranoia.

GM, what do you think of Jae?

[copper223]

@All

The excessive amount of question marks means GM is

almost certainly joking

, which means it reads to me as faked paranoia.

Did everyone else, before GM posted that she was 85% joking, get the same impression as accountant?

@Accountant
Whether the comment was meant to be taken seriously or not it still gives insight about GM's state of mind when she wrote it and still either points at her quickly injecting a dumb-tell about her being town (if you can reasonably assume that is something scum GM might do with these players) or just defaulting to what usually passes through her mind when she's analyzing the thread as an IC in a newbie; therefore I don't see why that changes your assessment of how genuine my read is?

[Astyanaxx]

@All

The excessive amount of question marks means GM is

almost certainly joking

, which means it reads to me as faked paranoia.

Did everyone else, before GM posted that she was 85% joking, get the same impression as accountant?

I did, and i was directly concerned by the remark. It seemed to me like pre-game banter.

[Accountant]

Ultimately you're talking about intentional manipulation of her meta vs legitimate following of meta, which I think is rendered null and void when it comes to jokes. That's because jokes are meant to not be serious, so it's hard to glean meta information off them.

Like, scum GM can't seriously think that other players will interpret a joke as her following her town meta, and if this was a genuine thought by town GM she'd have said so more seriously and tried to probe the buddyer.

This joke is NAI for me and it feels reaching when you say it isn't.

[copper223]

Ultimately you're talking about intentional manipulation of her meta vs legitimate following of meta, which I think is rendered null and void when it comes to jokes. That's because jokes are meant to not be serious, so it's hard to glean meta information off them.

Like, scum GM can't seriously think that other players will interpret a joke as her following her town meta, and if this was a genuine thought by town GM she'd have said so more seriously and tried to probe the buddyer.

This joke is NAI for me and it feels reaching when you say it isn't.

I don't necessarily agree with the first part, offhand comments you are not carefully thinking about can say more about your alignment than serious reads (this is more relevant for the unconsciously following her town meta part of the read though), but fair enough.

Everything can be characterized as reaching when you are working with little information at the start of the game.

[oncilla]

@oncilla: Do you think that JaeReed seriously believes that statement will make them seem townie?

@drealmerz: copper gave a pretty correct math analysis of why no lynching is bad. On an abstract level, the idea is that town exerts influence on the game through lynching - they have the majority so they control the Day while mafia controls the Night. It's strange for them to give up that advantage.

It's the unnecessary-ness of it that makes it look like an early attempt to get town points.

Yup! 9

--

If anyone's wondering I have ~3 scumreads at this point.

No real townreads yet but we'll get there.

Any intention of sharing these?

3. but are you buddying me?????? omg

If memory serves town GM is paranoid about being buddied, so what I'm trying to assess is if other people here would be aware of this (which would increase the chances of this being her manipulatively playing into her meta) or if she likely wouldn't make the effort here because nobody would know about it anyway (which would make it more likely she's town-telling).

Can you elaborate on this? Even if this meta read is true, I don't see any buddying going on that early.

@All

The excessive amount of question marks means GM is

almost certainly joking

, which means it reads to me as faked paranoia.

Did everyone else, before GM posted that she was 85% joking, get the same impression as accountant?

Agreed, which is why the meta statement at #75 is so out of place.

unvote

VOTE: accountant

for continuing to go on about no-lynch even though it seems to have been established that there's no point in discussing it in relation to this game - trying to keep us from discussing something useful?

I think the theory discussions some useful stuff in them. IMO any discussion is better than nothing at all that early. Slight fos drealmerz, but I still like my vote on Jae.

[copper223]

Can you elaborate on this? Even if this meta read is true, I don't see any buddying going on that early.

The point is whether GM is genuinely (albeit half jokingly, something that did not register as much with me as it did with you guys) thinking about being buddied, in that case since it's something I've seen her do as town it's a small indicator about her alignment.

[goodmorning]

What do you think of Jae's entrance into the game? What do you think about copper, generally? There's a lot there, I think.

I didn't find Jae's entrance particularly remarkable. For all that you claim to play conservatively, I find copper's play to be even more conservative - but there I'm stuck without a clue, because I don't know how to treat conservative copper(no meta, etc.)

I will say that I didn't like 75. The excessive amount of question marks means GM is almost certainly joking, which means it reads to me as faked paranoia.

GM, what do you think of Jae?

I found Jae's entrance so unremarkable that it was, in itself, remarkable. I'm not so sure about copper playing conservatively - he did go out on what could have been a limb re: you/NL.

I do also use excessive punctuation when I'm trying to make a point sometimes. 'omg' is what really tags it as in fun imo. Regardless, would he have known? I was a lot more serious pre-2014.

See above.

If anyone's wondering I have ~3 scumreads at this point.

Any intention of sharing these?

Not yet! You're welcome to guess what they are though! [And some of them are seriously in flux!]

Also, talking about theory isn't really alignment-indicative, which is why most of us are referring to it as useless.

[StaplerTowel]

Sorry, for those not in the know...wat does "buddying" mean? Is it the same as bandwagoning?

[goodmorning]

Buddying is when you're nice to someone in the hopes they won't suspect you.

[StaplerTowel]

So, its normal to metagame on rvs right? Or is it just something you guys are doing because you've already gamed with each other and know each other better than us newbs.

[goodmorning]

Well, it's not really RVS anymore; many people have made votes based on evidence rather than completely random ones. But yes, we're metagaming more because we've played each other before.

[JaeReed]

I found Jae's entrance so unremarkable that it was, in itself, remarkable.

Do tell. What did you expect while you softballed the newbies?

[goodmorning]

Maybe I expected you to play hardball.

[JaeReed]

I see no reason for you to believe I would be so inclined based off our shared game together.