Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Wingback]

What are your reads mhsmith?

[mhsmith0]

Gimme 24 hours, I'm doing a full re-read tomorrow. Need to sort my feelings on tenshii/rosske, see if anything pings on thor or not. You're basically lock town for luna's ISO and departure. Thor ought to be a strong town read too, but it's still really weird that he's still alive; I kinda figured he'd be dead N3 if it got that far, and I wouldn't really have to think deeply about him beyond "he's consistently clear about saying he doesn't bus, he'd have been bussing here, and it didn't seem like a bus, therefore he should be town".

Trans is the high volume poster by a LOT, which should indicate town for most people, but he also swamped the thread in http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66713 as a goon and won so idk. Probably should read that a bit more carefully (I'd skimmed it a while ago) to see if/how it compares to this one.

[Wingback]

What's your takeaway from that game you read of Transcends? When did you skim the game? Was it for this game or just general reading?

[mhsmith0]

I'd skimmed it quite a while ago. IIRC it was due to open 644 where I was trying to sort Dunnstral. Who died N1 in Trans' win, so it was somewhat limited in utility.

I think I gave it a very quick look like a week or two ago as well, but trans wasn't really my priority sort so it didn't really get much attention on my end. Other than that he was said to have done a very good job (specifically, someone mentioned, either in that game or in a different one in reference to it, that he did a great job of faking emotions like paranoia and some other stuff, I don't recall the details).

[Wingback]

That makes sense. Is there anyone else you are using meta to base reads off of?

[mhsmith0]

If I thought that I had a good sense of Thor's meta as a wolf, i'd be meta'ing him, but I don't really quite get how to separate town him from wolf him. I might re-skim some of his wolf games to see if anything sticks out, but at least right now I don't get anything from that. I haven't played with anyone else who's still alive (I'd played w karnos before, both town, but here the case pushed against him decently enough without my needing to really think on meta), and I don't think I've really read anyone else here either (I'd skimmed Luna some time ago, a town/wolf game, haven't really meta'd anyone else I don't think).

[Transcend]

Feel free to meta me all you want.

But I'll say this one more time.

I

Cannot

Be

Meta'd

[tojam2]

VC Day 4 - 5

Transcend L-3 - Rosske
Rosske L-3 - Transcend
Tenshii L-3 - Thor665
Thor665 L-3 - Tenshii

(expired on 2016-08-29 09:30:00)

[Wingback]

Meaning if your slot, Tenshii's slot or Giga's slot is scum, I will openly lose the game, given I get those lynches.

Why is Tenshii so town to you?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

The above logic depends on Thor being town as well. Scum Thor could be sheeping a supposed town, in which case that would make it much less likely I am scum.

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

i'm doing a full game reread too and everytime i see this post i just cringe

i haven't found anything too great but this is killing me

[Wingback]

Lol, typical Karnos. He cracks me up sometimes. I have no idea what that means though. Part of me wants to think he wouldn't be bold enough to present the possibility of a him/his partner team and then shoot it down. But there's stuff bugging me about all of Thor/Transcend/Tenshii/Rosske to varying levels.

I'm suspicious that Transcend's push on Rosske/mhsmith could be scum-motivated given a) Rosske's meta fits more with his towngame, and b) I have a hard time seeing mhsmith as scum. But he gets both of them lynched and kills us both (Wingback and gigabyte), he sets up a LYLO with Thor and Tenshii and wins from there. Out of all the players in the game, Transcend's the only one who's strategy seems like it nets him a win if he's scum. I suppose he could be town that just has Rosske/Mhsmith/Thor as suspects so I'm not really sure there.

If you are into meta, mind going over Rosske's completed games? He only has one completed game as town and one completed game as scum with short ISOs in both so they would be an easy read. I read them both and agree with Thor that his play here fits his town game. For reference Micro 624 has Rosske as town and Newbie 1720 has Rosske as scum.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Thanks for the meta, I'll give them a quick read.

I still think I'd rather meta Transcend too, his pushes have all been really strange (the two on our slots to be specific) and I've been using that as reasons to townread him but... maybe he's the kind of player who makes bizarre pushes as scum to look town? I don't know.

The Tenshii/Thor LYLO is my biggest fear this game and one of the reasons I considered lynching one of them, but I don't want to make a policy lynch when we have several brains to find scum.

[Tenshii]

I also have issues with Transcend's play.

Even better.

That's not actually why I said I scumread you - I would think you'd know this because you've asked me why I scumread you about four or five times by now.

You used it as part of your case on me.

[Transcend]

E f f you if you think my reads are dumb. I've genuinely had these reads all game.

Tenshii has been a tonal town read and none of his posts read fabricated.

I don't mind being lynched because this game is toxic and this host is bad, just upon my flip, please don't let newbscum Rosske take a dump on you.

Fwiw only reason i didn't sub out was because there was one scum left and i felt like i had good reads. I still do. But you guys are gonna sh** the bed.

You lynched kts solely because he lol hammered and PC because he didn't participate that much. Don't lynch people because you don't like them.

I already see a grudge lynch on me being engineered due ryu my unfavorable play. That's fine, idc, string me up. I'll chat with my homies in the dead PT while you guys get tab over like a lawn mower.

This isn't wifom either. This game is cancer. Either you have to agree with the majority or you're scum.

However, if you wish to remove your heads from y
our rectums, you could lynch Rosske who is probably last scum. I've been known to be a hit and miss player. I genuinely, genuinely, feel this will be a hit.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

VOTE: Rosske

I want to go with my original plan here.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

transcend and i have been on rosske since D2

i just kept getting convinced to get off of him, I'm starting to think my original viewpoint on everything was correct

[Wingback]

Not sure why you think I have a grudge. Haven't played with you before and the only interaction with you was you saying you liked my replace in post.

I'm suspicious because you simultaneously seem to have a lot of confidence in your Rosske read while also having two backup reads. Your strong townread on Tenshii could be scum-motivated. If you can elaborate beyond just "tone," that would help me see where you are coming from a lot better.

[Wingback]

transcend and i have been on rosske since D2

i just kept getting convinced to get off of him, I'm starting to think my original viewpoint on everything was correct

I haven't fully caught up but can you link me to the posts where you laid this out?

[Transcend]

I'm at work I'll explain later. For now though please f*** off.

[Rosske]

People are scum reading me based on the level of my contribution versus my....you know....actual alignment.

Transcend is tunneled so hard on me that it really gives me a hard time believing he's town. In this game he lynches people that he is oh-so-certain that they're scum, and they the flip town. And he goes oops I f***ed up and keeps on floating by in the "town bloc"

[Wingback]

People are scum reading me based on the level of my contribution versus my....you know....actual alignment.

Transcend is tunneled so hard on me that it really gives me a hard time believing he's town. In this game he lynches people that he is oh-so-certain that they're scum, and they the flip town. And he goes oops I f***ed up and keeps on floating by in the "town bloc"

Do you have reads on anyone else?

[Transcend]

People are scum reading me based on the level of my contribution versus my....you know....actual alignment.

Transcend is tunneled so hard on me that it really gives me a hard time believing he's town. In this game he lynches people that he is oh-so-certain that they're scum, and they the flip town. And he goes oops I f***ed up and keeps on floating by in the "town bloc"

K no. F*** you. You're talking out of your ass. You say that I've participated in all these town flips and laughed my ass off when i lynched them. However, i haven't been on one single lynch this game. Every single vote I've made has been in the minority because I've been trying to get luna fox and then you roped. I will not stand for you saying i did something i didn't do.

[Thor665]

I also have issues with Transcend's play.

Even better.

That's not actually why I said I scumread you - I would think you'd know this because you've asked me why I scumread you about four or five times by now.

You used it as part of your case on me.

I used it as an example of how few actual stances you've taken - that is an utter difference from what you're saying I used it as.

What's your read on trans thor? Sounds like you think he's super derpy town; do I have that correct or do you carry any suspicion on him?

I would put him about equal to you in my town reads.
Lean town.
Lesser reads than Rosske, Luna, or Giga.

E f f you if you think my reads are dumb. I've genuinely had these reads all game.

Yup, longevity is the true measure of the quality of a read

VOTE: Rosske

I want to go with my original plan here.

Two people have straight up claimed that this game does not match meta analysis of his scum v. town play.
You don't wanna weigh in on that and would rather vote the slot?

[mhsmith0]

Unless you think Thor & I are the sort of players who would bus each other day 1.

Io, is this and post #70 what lead you to believe that Karnos is adamant about Thor's lynch? If not, could you tell me what I missed?

Karnos, how are you reading Thor at the moment?

Thos *is* acting scummy, though not as much as Io, and I only have one vote.

The problem I have with Thor is his logic is inconsistent. He thinks his read is so good he can trust you as town after only a couple posts. Okay, maybe his read is so good, but if you accept that he is so good at reading people, then shouldn't he pick his own scum to vote, based on his amazing reads? Instead he chooses to sheep you. It's like he is saying he is so good at reading people that he is 100% convinced you are town, but at the same time he isn't confident enough in his reads to independently vote on his biggest scum read. It's a weird inconsistency to me.

There is one perfectly logical conclusion, is that he read you as town and I was his biggest scum read, and that would make perfect sense... but when he was questioned about his vote, he didn't say that was the case... he just said he was sheeping you. It's like he doesn't want to take personal responsibility for the vote, doesn't want to be associated with it. He wants to support the wagon on me but give himself a nice out after I flip town.

This (and the rest of their back and forth) is one of those things that just makes it really hard to see Thor as karnis's buddy. What wolf boldly misreps his buddy in this way at that point? The push without a vote dampens it a bit, but it seems a lot more like "pushing a villager wagon without being on it" than it does "fake distancing/theater push on a buddy". The sheer depth of their back and forth on d1 just makes it incredibly hard to see Thor as the goon here.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Two people have straight up claimed that this game does not match meta analysis of his scum v. town play.
You don't wanna weigh in on that and would rather vote the slot?

I don't think you can meta a player with only 140 posts on this site in all honesty.

I don't get that at all - the only scummy thing I can really see there is maybe him not voting Karnos over it.
Looking at his completed scum game he

explained himself a lot more

, and

stuck to a single position

, and

didn't vote very quickly

.
Looking at other postings in games that may or may not exist I don't see that as a similar vibe from games he may or may not have had a scum role in.

It's not a large sample size, but that paired with a read based on a presumption isn't selling me on the case.

From his 24 posts in his one completed scum game, it's kind of an exception... The stuff I bolded all seems to come from someone who replaced late into a game, which is exactly what Rosske did in Newbie 1720. Catch-up posts are easily faked (I was duped by a very convincing one in my newbie...), and Rosske's longer posts look like that's what he's doing.

I obviously cannot discuss what he may or may not have been in... but I will say that I disagree but I may be missing nuances because of my lack of experience. Can't elaborate further.

So? I'm just going to read his alignment like I have been for everyone else (besides Phantom), and I think he's the scummiest slot alive. Obviously my reads aren't going to be perfect, but my short list is pretty much down to {Rosske, Tenshii}.

I'll respond to Wingback's question now.