Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)
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Accountant Self-Evident
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I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- goodmorning
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goodmorning AnySurvivor
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At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
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Hmmm, I don't find that to be wishy-washy language or to undermine the point of it, I find the complete opposite. To me they mean 2 different things completely. If you mean "not necessarily indicative" then I won't get into a long spiel about why they're different, because I think you can see the nuance, and, that nuance is important I think, is why.In post 148, goodmorning wrote:
Generally speaking. It should probably say "not necessarily indicative" but that kind of wishy-washy language undermines the point.In post 136, drealmerz7 wrote:goodmorning, your tag says "effort is not indicative of alignment" - is that meant to be in reference to yourself, or a general statement?
Why?
in reference to me going L-2 on staplertowel that early in the game:
I understand why it is "interesting", but, to me, it really is a safe move at that point, and a potentially useful one. If 2 scum in and see there is a wagon at L-2 and both decide to hop on and make the lynch, well, that is super-suspicious of those 2 more than me, imo, and kind of a noob-mistake on their part. It's an okay way to learn in a noob game if it happens, I think. If any more town add to the wagon, that is more on them than it is me at that point. More likely one of the others already on the wagon would jump off, unless they're scum, which can also be a useful read depending how things develop. I also think it is a safe move for me to be viewed as town. No scum would make it L-2 that early in the game at risk of drawing suspicion on themselves, sure, it can be a gambit move, but, it's risky and unecessary at that stage in the game.
you didn't sayIn post 150, Accountant wrote:I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.what, exactly? when saying something like that quotes are really good, among saying "you're a hypocrite" and then not saying exactly where. I'm getting a bit annoyed at this back and forth with you and really don't see why you persist, I've made my positions clear and I don't have anything to add.- Accountant
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Accountant Self-Evident
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@GM & Jae: Continued spaghetti posting and arguing with each other over semantics isn't helping or convincing anyone of anything and does nothing but strengthen conf bias. Stop, please.
That's not what misrepresentation means. Furthermore, the assumptions were correct. Or do you deny that you are new to this site?You've already mis-represented me by making assumptions based on very limited facts/evidence (hence the use of the word assumptions) about me
I'll be looking forward to your explanation, then.
Where am I being hypocritical? Again, I never intended to be, and it is likely you misunderstand or I didn't elaborate enough for you to understand
I can already fully explain myself, I just choose not to because it's irritating trying to quote and refer to other pages on mobile. Stop trying to put your own spin on what I'm saying and pass it off as reality. Nobody is fooled.But really, if you're going to start calling someone hypocritical and scum, you should really be somewhere where you can fully explain yourself and what you're talking about and not just mention things you want to talk about in the future, that is like, really scummy, imo.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- Accountant
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That's how I feel about you and Jae.In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- copper223
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Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.- Accountant
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I did not claim to know definitively you are scum. But I do strongly suspect you, because you're behaving in a very scummy manner.you didn't say what, exactly?There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- Accountant
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When did you start to grow suspicious of oncilla?In post 155, copper223 wrote:Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- drealmerz7
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I seriously can't fucking stand when people play from their phone or whatever device that sucks and then say "sorry I can't play even up to par or how I should be because I'm on a POS playing half-assed instead of being considerate and making quality posts like the other players." it's started become very anti-town, Accountant, distracting from other things that seem more meaningful, like that squabble between jae and GM.
Jae, how can you be so sure how someone should behave based on a limited previous experience with them? That is naive if not scummy.- copper223
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That comment about being amused irked me a bit because it sounded like you were making fun of our attempts to read each other, I also considered that was scum knowing about our alignments and finding it funny how many are tunneling each other for all the wrong reasons but dismissed it.In post 145, drealmerz7 wrote:@accountant - well, regardless, I'm not scum, so, if you're town, re-assess before you commit to getting back to a PC :þ
@copper - I'm just a little whacky at times and like to have a bit of fun, it is a game after all - I don't want to get on people's nerves at all! That's not the reaction I'm going for!
If I get on anyone's nerves anywhere ever, please point out where/why you find it so and we can hopefully come to understanding. I do poke/prod people at times a bit, but, I think that is part of the nature of the game.
The things I do are also never intended to interfere with discussion, but to enhance it, or to have fun with it and make it a bit fun, because it's a game (and I can have fun and make fun posts as well as be focused on the dire situation of choosing who to lynch) - in fact, I will often merge the two if appropriate and not confusing!
@Accountant
OMG that guy is misrepping me is the most mistaken scumread I've had myself and read from others when both players are mutually scum-reading each other.
So like me you're tending to both GM and Jae being town?- drealmerz7
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Riiiight, we're done discussing anything then until you can actually fucking discuss something. Your lack of ability to play effectively from the "mobile" is detrimental to the game. PLEASE STOP.In post 153, Accountant wrote: I can already fully explain myself, I just choose not to because it's irritating trying to quote and refer to other pages on mobile. Stop trying to put your own spin on what I'm saying and pass it off as reality. Nobody is fooled.- copper223
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When I read his post about how out of place my meta read was (after a bunch of you had taken a similar line) and seeing that Jae had had the same impression when Oncilla questioned his entry post as trying to hard to be town.In post 157, Accountant wrote:
When did you start to grow suspicious of oncilla?In post 155, copper223 wrote:Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.- drealmerz7
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Nah, wasn't making fun, and I wouldn't make a comment like that as scum as it'd be a bit of a scum-tell. I can totally see how it could read as scummy, but, nah, just innocently amused.In post 159, copper223 wrote:In post 145, drealmerz7 wrote: That comment about being amused irked me a bit because it sounded like you were making fun of our attempts to read each other, I also considered that was scum knowing about our alignments and finding it funny how many are tunneling each other for all the wrong reasons but dismissed it.- drealmerz7
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This argument is not valid. You argue that I am not making quality posts and using my mobile device as an excuse. This is untrue - every post I make is game-advancing. The only thing that mobile devices stop me from doing are make
I seriously can't fucking stand when people play from their phone or whatever device that sucks and then say "sorry I can't play even up to par or how I should be because I'm on a POS playing half-assed instead of being considerate and making quality posts like the other players." it's started become very anti-town, Accountant, distracting from other things that seem more meaningful, like that squabble between jae and GM.lengthyposts. Despite what your previous experience playing mafia may or may not have taught you, length does not strongly correlate to quality(this is also true in school, the bedroom and many other places).
The second accusation is nonsensical. My posting on a mobile device hardly distracts from the conversation between GM and Jae.
Ah - but we still have plenty to discuss that can be done through short, mobile posts. Such as your repeated misrepresentations of what I am trying to say.Your lack of ability to play effectively from the "mobile" is detrimental to the game.
Feels like a TvT.So like me you're tending to both GM and Jae being town?There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- drealmerz7
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Well when you say "I'll explain why you're scum" that is quite definitive and doesn't mean "I'll explain why I think you're scum" - it's harder language than that, you realize?In post 156, Accountant wrote:
I did not claim to know definitively you are scum. But I do strongly suspect you, because you're behaving in a very scummy manner.you didn't say what, exactly?
anyway, you've hit me so many times as scummy and that stuff between jae and GM seems silly too (not as silly as this, mind you), soo, yep, now I figure it is best to chill on it and allow others to make their assessments on us, I mean, feel free to do whatever you were going to do but, I'm pretty much done with this with you unless you have any questions for me that are necessary to clear up.- Accountant
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There's no difference in my mind.
Well when you say "I'll explain why you're scum" that is quite definitive and doesn't mean "I'll explain why I think you're scum" - it's harder language than that, you realize?
I see.anyway, you've hit me so many times as scummy and that stuff between jae and GM seems silly too (not as silly as this, mind you), soo, yep, now I figure it is best to chill on it and allow others to make their assessments on us, I mean, feel free to do whatever you were going to do but, I'm pretty much done with this with you unless you have any questions for me that are necessary to clear up.There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.
You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.- drealmerz7
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I have to learn to disengage sooner/better, it's always an issue for me.In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.- JaeReed
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drealmer is pinging me a bit as trying to appease. With the favorable comment on the vote and all.
I kinda wanna continue to grill GM outta spite because Accountant told me to stop, lol. My concerns were all addressed, though. I'm still half convinced just based off my luck that the IC slot is scum. Every newbie I've been in for D1 has had a scum IC. That's 4/5 newbies (the 5th I specifically replaced in after the town IC died). That's...not really an argument, though. Has little bearing on this game, gambler's fallacy, and so on.
Accountant trying to put a stop to the noise is pro-town I think, as I can see scum!Accountant letting it pass without telling us to stop since it clutters up the thread. I still think it was early to try to call a stop to it since I was going to disengage anyway... but that's more my personality coming through than anything since I hate being told to do what I was already about to do.
UNVOTE:
I'll reread the thread after getting some sleep. I disagree that it was some kind of obvious joke rather than trying to handwave potential scummy behaviour, but that's likely gonna be an agree to disagree point.- drealmerz7
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funny, I just went a-peesIn post 168, JaeReed wrote:drealmer is pinging me a bit as trying to appease.- goodmorning
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goodmorning AnySurvivor
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I see.In post 152, drealmerz7 wrote:
Hmmm, I don't find that to be wishy-washy language or to undermine the point of it, I find the complete opposite. To me they mean 2 different things completely. If you mean "not necessarily indicative" then I won't get into a long spiel about why they're different, because I think you can see the nuance, and, that nuance is important I think, is why.In post 148, goodmorning wrote:
Generally speaking. It should probably say "not necessarily indicative" but that kind of wishy-washy language undermines the point.In post 136, drealmerz7 wrote:goodmorning, your tag says "effort is not indicative of alignment" - is that meant to be in reference to yourself, or a general statement?
Why?
All of which is WIFOM. Also: even in Newbie games, I've never seen an RVS quickhammer by Scum. And every vote takes equal weight with me.in reference to me going L-2 on staplertowel that early in the game:
I understand why it is "interesting", but, to me, it really is a safe move at that point, and a potentially useful one. If 2 scum in and see there is a wagon at L-2 and both decide to hop on and make the lynch, well, that is super-suspicious of those 2 more than me, imo, and kind of a noob-mistake on their part. It's an okay way to learn in a noob game if it happens, I think. If any more town add to the wagon, that is more on them than it is me at that point. More likely one of the others already on the wagon would jump off, unless they're scum, which can also be a useful read depending how things develop. I also think it is a safe move for me to be viewed as town. No scum would make it L-2 that early in the game at risk of drawing suspicion on themselves, sure, it can be a gambit move, but, it's risky and unecessary at that stage in the game.
you didn't sayIn post 150, Accountant wrote:I did not say that. Do not continue to misrep my position.what, exactly? when saying something like that quotes are really good, among saying "you're a hypocrite" and then not saying exactly where. I'm getting a bit annoyed at this back and forth with you and really don't see why you persist, I've made my positions clear and I don't have anything to add.
I feel like we're getting to the bottom of our issues with each other at this point. You and dreal just keep accusing each other of misrepping.In post 154, Accountant wrote:
That's how I feel about you and Jae.In post 151, goodmorning wrote:At this point I feel like you two are talking past each other and nothing is being accomplished.
Things are making a lot more sense now.In post 168, JaeReed wrote:I kinda wanna continue to grill GM outta spite because Accountant told me to stop, lol. My concerns were all addressed, though. I'm still half convinced just based off my luck that the IC slot is scum. Every newbie I've been in for D1 has had a scum IC. That's 4/5 newbies (the 5th I specifically replaced in after the town IC died). That's...not really an argument, though. Has little bearing on this game, gambler's fallacy, and so on.
Except, as I mentioned earlier this post, we were accomplishing some resolution. Accountant keeps making noise at dreal about how he's going to post a case when he gets to the computer, but in the meantime continues to bait dreal with non-issues.Accountant trying to put a stop to the noise is pro-town I think, as I can see scum!Accountant letting it pass without telling us to stop since it clutters up the thread. I still think it was early to try to call a stop to it since I was going to disengage anyway... but that's more my personality coming through than anything since I hate being told to do what I was already about to do.
Accountant trying to put a stop to productive noise while continuing with unproductive noise is not pro-Town at all.
Worrying about looking Town is a Newb tell, not a scumtell. But we can certainly agree to disagree.I disagree that it was some kind of obvious joke rather than trying to handwave potential scummy behaviour, but that's likely gonna be an agree to disagree point.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
Get to know a very pleasant AM.- oncilla
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oncilla is being replaced.
Kuroshira is being replaced for failing to pick up the role PM.Show"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
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"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
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goodmorning AnySurvivor
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In this case, Kuroshira replaced an unconfirmed slot. Two others confirmed, starting the game. In games that start before 100% confirmations, usually you give the unconfirmed 24 hours or so to confirm. Because this is a weekend you might be inclined to give them longer; many people are busy on weekends, and some mods even go so far as to count weekends as a single day for prod purposes.EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENTLA during normal working and sleeping hours EST
Get to know a very pleasant AM. - goodmorning
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