Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[DiamondSentinel]

Y'know, I really really like a hiplop wagon right about now.

That's a very good decision.

VOTE: hiplop

[Eleven]

Votecount 2.10

[5] DiamondSentinel ~ Medical Junkies, Firebringer, BROseidon, kdowns, hiplop
[4] BROseidon ~ farside22, kraska77, MagnaofIllusion, Transcend
[2] hiplop ~ SnarkySnowman, DiamondSentinel
[1] kdowns ~ Spiffeh
[1] keyenpeydee ~ Cephrir

Not Voting (2) - Grib, keyenpeydee

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2016-09-05 12:00:00).
[/color]

Searching for a keyenpeydee replacement.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I’ll lay out a Bro case for everyone to see to encourage them to do the correct thing and lynch him.

First off take a look at it yourself. It is filled to the brim with fluff posting and not much scum-hunting.
And what scum hunting is presented has either been proven incorrect from Bro’s perspective (Mala lurks as scum from 888 for example).

Also take a close look at 1940 – very scummy attempt to use an existing list from Fox as support which feels very, very pre-planned.

Back in the day, it seemed like I could nail nacho as scum EVERY TIME.
But since I came back, he is a mystery. Maybe it's me, but I think he just got crazy good.

It's you

Oh, so Nacho is easy to read as scum? Odd that Imperium was never once on Bro’s radar then. Especially given Nacho was the architect of the wagon on Bro’s supposed Town read in Waco.
Speaking of which …

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

Funny that Waco is a Town read for Bro given that Bro NEVER mentioned them at all before this very post in his ISO. It’s a fun game. Do a search through Bro’s ISO for Waco and see how many hints you get. Hint – it is less than 10 and not direct interactions with Waco at all.

tbh my case against jumping on Waco is ~just not feeling it~, but camntsuki are super obviously town, so...

I'mma sit on my vanity wagon and wait for you guys to see the light.

And here’s the most detailed explanation of why Waco is Town that you will find in Bro’s posting history. Not very convincing. More indicative that he know Waco was Town because they aren’t partners.

Next we get …

Waco is a town read?
I can understand ~

not feeling it

~, but a townread seems like something that should be a bit more tangible.

My gut on his first few posts was "seems pretty town." Not very strong, but I'd rather go like 5 different places today.

This reads as scum interacting with each other. Nacho, who has a “case” on Waco just questions Bro on why Waco is a Town read. And Bro gives a pat, empty answer. No pressure from either side to move positions. No significant followup on either side. Just light interaction to make a few links with no depth to it.

And Bro goes out of his way to defend Imperium when I called his “Utility Lynch” idea bad via discrediting in 1450.

Omg Spiffeh maybe we can be friends for once (re: your farside read)

VOTE: Waco let's just end this stupid day

And here is the hop on the mislynch wagon. No interactions or comments about Waco in his ISO – just hopping on to “end the Day” which is a scummy transition.

MJ are confirmed town.

Scum also probably don't have a roleblocker, but that's just spec based on MJ's ability actually going through on me.

Hey remember when Bro called Diamond scummy for “knowing there was no Roleblocker” yet this post which greatly pre-dates it is the exact same thought process from Bro.

Cognitive Dissonance at work in full effect. That’s scummy for those of you who don’t know …

Hey hiplop I'm trying to read this game and it's reminding me of why I hate mafia, so I have 2 questions:

1) Are you town?
2) Who should I vote for?

This is here mostly to show that if Bro flips scum Hiplop despite being scummy as heck probably isn’t. I don’t see scum buddying up to a partner so obviously.

The overt buddying done to Camnt also makes me think that Spiff is probably just bad Town if Bro flips scum. See 1319 as an example.

Summary for Those Who Think “Reading is Hard” – ISO dominated by fluff and fake-rage as opposed to trying to solve the game, interactions with Nacho that look like partners laying down soft links, strong buddying to players for self-defense purposes, scummy reasoning for voting mislynch Waco.

Vote away!

[BROseidon]

Oh I'm going to have fun with this one once I'm done with lunch!

[DiamondSentinel]

I will say one thing. Unfortunately, that could be said about a lot of people. There's been a substantially large amount of fluff and rage this game...

[DiamondSentinel]

(However, should Bro flip scum, 100% check the wagon for a bus. If Bro is scum and MJ is town, then this a very favorable bus, as this throws shade on MJ)

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't think you not agreeing with someone's reads is a great reason to lynch them. I'm not in love with that list either, but I recognize that the town isn't a hive mind (to be fair there's no lynch I *would* be in love with, I'm pretty short on actual suspects)

What happened to Snarky for you then? Given he’s more or less disappeared from the thread to watch the louder players snipe at each other I’d think if you thought he was scum before your read would not have changed.

--

Nacho is as addicted to bussing as I am to things I probably shouldn't mention in a mafia game.

And yet the only non-RVS, non-known Town (at least to you) player he voted Day1 was Snarky. Yet Snarky is nowhere near your radar / lynch list ...

Like, I'm probably going to get lynched with 2 scum on my wagon today.

I'll flip town. People will STILL somehow call MJ scum because this game is literally that full of stupid.

MJ will get mislynched and flip friendly neighbor.

Fluff AtE given this would never happen.

--

First: it would have told me that they thought that the VT role was less expected. I.e. That they would think that other things could be expected from that claim.
Second: it would have given me more information for what to expect from other flavors, because Clifford and Kim Possible are 2 very different shows.

For those who look, there is always information hidden in the flavor. It can catch a fakeclaim, if you can pick up on subtle clues.

I can’t parse the first part.

The Vote-Counts should have clued you in that there was a wide-variety of flavors possible in this game so that point is out.

And on the third – why would scum need fake-claims given Imperium’s flip? Barney the Dinosaur is a very well known kids show character. Not unexpected at all. I have serious doubts you would have identified Barney as scum just on flavor alone.

Y'know, I really really like a hiplop wagon right about now.

That's a very good decision.

VOTE: hiplop

Why does this vote appear the second after I move off hiplop?

[Cephrir]

if mj is a real full friendly neighbor though then that wouldnt matter

also i havent read that bigpost yet

pedit: or that one

[BROseidon]

(However, should Bro flip scum, 100% check the wagon for a bus. If Bro is scum and MJ is town, then this a very favorable bus, as this throws shade on MJ)

It only would because you're all not very bright tbh.

Even as scum, I'll always claim a friendly neighbor truthfully. And the idea that scum-me would start a game trying to bus my partner and forcing a gambit is pretty dumb.

[BROseidon]

Why does this vote appear the second after I move off hiplop?

Because DS is scum and you're going to great lengths to justify why that isn't the case.

[Cephrir]

Read it, still not hopping on board.

What happened to Snarky for you then? Given he’s more or less disappeared from the thread to watch the louder players snipe at each other I’d think if you thought he was scum before your read would not have changed.

Imperium's iso gave me a bit of pause

[BROseidon]

So I’ll lay out a Bro case for everyone to see to encourage them to do the correct thing and lynch him.

First off take a look at it yourself. It is filled to the brim with fluff posting and not much scum-hunting.

Yeah I'm a fluffly poster. Not alignment-indicative.

As far as scumhunting goes, I've done plenty of that. Just because I don't post massive walls and read lists doesn't mean that I'm not engaging, forming reads, pushing things, etc. I'm sorry if you don't have the intellectual flexibility to understand scumhunting that happens in ways that isn't identical to your own.

And what scum hunting is presented has either been proven incorrect from Bro’s perspective (Mala lurks as scum from 888 for example).

Mala is the only read that I've gotten wrong. So now me having a wrong read day 1 is a sign of me being scum. Congrats, you've just called every mafia player ever scum, by extension.

Also take a close look at 1940 – very scummy attempt to use an existing list from Fox as support which

feels

very, very pre-planned.

For someone who's going to later attack me for being a primarily gut-driven player, you sure like using gut here!

Back in the day, it seemed like I could nail nacho as scum EVERY TIME.
But since I came back, he is a mystery. Maybe it's me, but I think he just got crazy good.

It's you

Oh, so Nacho is easy to read as scum? Odd that Imperium was never once on Bro’s radar then. Especially given Nacho was the architect of the wagon on Bro’s supposed Town read in Waco.

This is the one point you make that isn't completely stupid.

What you're missing, though, is context, which is going to be a recurring theme throughout this. Context, both within a game and over the course of many games going back three years, matters a lot. I've played a ton of games with Nacho. I've seen him as both alignments, and he's seen me as both alignments. We've been scum together multiple times as well. As players, we know each other super well.

So without that history, there really isn't a way for you to know how I read Nacho. I don't attempt to form a read on him day 1 anymore. It's kind of a useless thing, given the lens through which I play mafia combined with the way he plays scum. There are certain patterns I look for in how he pushes wagons and who he pushes them on to, but the data there isn't super useful to me until I have flips on at least a few of those wagons. Who he pushes combined with the general way in which he pushes them and how he appeals to the game to make them happen are how I read Nacho, but I can't come to a conclusion until late day 2 at the earliest.

Speaking of which …

I come back after 24 hours and there's wagons on two of my town reads?

Ugh I hate you all. Time to actually read shit.

Funny that Waco is a Town read for Bro given that Bro NEVER mentioned them at all before this very post in his ISO. It’s a fun game. Do a search through Bro’s ISO for Waco and see how many hints you get. Hint – it is less than 10 and not direct interactions with Waco at all.

Your argument amounts to the fact that I don't post readlists. Congrats, you've just implied that all players who don't post readlists are scum. Good job, you so smart!

tbh my case against jumping on Waco is ~just not feeling it~, but camntsuki are super obviously town, so...

I'mma sit on my vanity wagon and wait for you guys to see the light.

And here’s the most detailed explanation of why Waco is Town that you will find in Bro’s posting history. Not very convincing. More indicative that he know Waco was Town because they aren’t partners.

Or I'm primarily a gut-driven player. There are a handful of players I have non-gut based ways of reading (Nacho and Mala being two in this game I have non-gut ways of reading), but most players, especially ones I'm unfamiliar with, I mostly read with gut then look for what's pinging the gut if people start asking about it.

Next we get …

Waco is a town read?
I can understand ~

not feeling it

~, but a townread seems like something that should be a bit more tangible.

My gut on his first few posts was "seems pretty town." Not very strong, but I'd rather go like 5 different places today.

This reads as scum interacting with each other. Nacho, who has a “case” on Waco just questions Bro on why Waco is a Town read. And Bro gives a pat, empty answer. No pressure from either side to move positions. No significant followup on either side. Just light interaction to make a few links with no depth to it.

My answer isn't empty. He asked why I had a read, I answered. The hypothetical exchange you think should have happened would have been nacho repeatedly asking "why" and me saying "gut." Nacho would know that, and was more interested in the second part of what I said (who I would rather lynch).

And Bro goes out of his way to defend Imperium when I called his “Utility Lynch” idea bad via discrediting in 1450.

What I was laughing at was the notion that players within a game don't change their level of effort or strength of play over time. Different players play in different ways - some come out of the gate super strong and make a ton of shit happen, whereas others will blend into the background early and move into the foreground later. Different players take different roles depending on the other players in the game.

Nacho specifically couldn't take another position in his post because he knows how I play. He knows I hate day 1, and he knows that I can absolutely break a game 3-4 days in. I wouldn't be posting this much, tbh, if Ceph weren't the only active poster making any fucking sense.

Omg Spiffeh maybe we can be friends for once (re: your farside read)

VOTE: Waco let's just end this stupid day

And here is the hop on the mislynch wagon. No interactions or comments about Waco in his ISO – just hopping on to “end the Day” which is a scummy transition.

And here you sound like a Tea Partier.

Mafia isn't a game where you can be completely principled and just yell until you get your way. There's a degree of compromise no matter what. Sometimes your first choice isn't going to get lynched. Sometimes, none of the people you want lynched aren't going to get lynched, and sitting there throwing a tantrum about it isn't going to make the game move any better. This is a lesson I learned the hard way. I compromised onto Waco because the other option was a stronger townread, and literally nothing else was happening that day. At that point, it's better to hope that I'm wrong than to make the game a slog.

MJ are confirmed town.

Scum also probably don't have a roleblocker, but that's just spec based on MJ's ability actually going through on me.

Hey remember when Bro called Diamond scummy for “knowing there was no Roleblocker” yet this post which greatly pre-dates it is the exact same thought process from Bro.

Cognitive Dissonance at work in full effect. That’s scummy for those of you who don’t know …

And this is where you seem to intentionally ignore context. Compared to when I made my comment about DS, I had acquired the information of MJ's ability actually going through on me, when a scum-RBer would have likely been there N1. Is context really that hard for you?

Hey hiplop I'm trying to read this game and it's reminding me of why I hate mafia, so I have 2 questions:

1) Are you town?
2) Who should I vote for?

This is here mostly to show that if Bro flips scum Hiplop despite being scummy as heck probably isn’t. I don’t see scum buddying up to a partner so obviously.

The idea that this is out of my scumrange is funny tbh.

The overt buddying done to Camnt also makes me think that Spiff is probably just bad Town if Bro flips scum. See 1319 as an example.

Summary for Those Who Think “Reading is Hard” – ISO dominated by fluff and fake-rage as opposed to trying to solve the game, interactions with Nacho that look like partners laying down soft links, strong buddying to players for self-defense purposes, scummy reasoning for voting mislynch Waco.

Vote away!

Summary for those who think "Reading is Hard:" MoI doesn't understand intuition or context, and is more concerned with demonstrating why I'm scum than critically thinking about the evidence in the text. Someone must have failed high school English pretty hard tbh.

[BROseidon]

And yet the only non-RVS, non-known Town (at least to you) player he voted Day1 was Snarky. Yet Snarky is nowhere near your radar / lynch list ...

You wanna do Snarky?

I'd do Snarky over hiplop.

[Cephrir]

i dont want to give commentary on that whole case as it's not really my job, but i will say I don't think 1940 is scummy and I don't think fluff is scummy.

pedit: o hai

[DiamondSentinel]

...

I'll answer each question in time.

@MoI - Now that we know what the scumteam is themed off of, there are likely fakeclaims (it does say that the scumteam is costumed). But fine. Whatever. I don't give a damn at this point. I'll be doing my own thing, and then come late-game, I'll be helpful. But nobody wants to give me the shot to be helpful. So fuck it.

Also, the vote just happened to be coincidence. I don't mind lynching Bro, but we've got 2 separate camps. One really wants me dead, one really wants Bro dead. It's unlikely that they will compromise on one of the two, short of "12 hours to DL we need a lynch". So let's change that.

@Ceph and Bro - The FN could be fake. Bro could be covering for his scum buddy. Yes, it's early, but by setting it in D2, when nobody else receives the neighbor result in later days, they can claim that MJ was roleblocked or something.

Also, the bus makes a shit ton of sense. It's a 1 for 1 trade off, which isn't great, but it also throws out some chaos later on. I don't really feel like explaining it to you, Bro, because you are deliberately obtuse about this sort of stuff. I mean, seriously, kid. I could say 2+2=4 and you'd still bitch about how I was wrong.

Get over it, or go back to preschool.


PEdit: GOD I REALLY WISH I HAD A VIG! THIS IS HAIR-TEARINGLY AWFUL

[MagnaofIllusion]

i dont want to give commentary on that whole case as it's not really my job, but i will say I don't think 1940 is scummy and I don't think fluff is scummy.

pedit: o hai

I'm shocked by both these ... I never would have guessed ...

[Transcend]

fuck y'alls walls

[DiamondSentinel]

Stop being lazy, Transcend.

[Cephrir]

you should read those walls they were pretty useful as walls go

[DiamondSentinel]

Walls are nearly always useful.

[Transcend]

mmmm gonna have to go with nah not a chance

[DiamondSentinel]

Anyone got some meta on this kid?

His sig says that he acts powertown as scum. Does that mean he does jack shit as town? Or is that cherry-picking?


Regardless, he should be up for policy sometime.

[Cephrir]

it's only like two. it'll take you8 fucking minutes.

i skim walls sometimes when there are a lot of them but for only a few posts... if you can't be bothered with that then don't play

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: hiplop

[Cephrir]

i want to vote hippy but i know he'll make me feel bad about it if i do