Mini Normal 1823 - Game Over

[xSoniaNevermindx]

So you Gerry is bussing Tex?

[BlackStar]

So you Gerry is bussing Tex?

No, I said he's fighting with you to distract us from the wagon that was forming on texcat.

[BlackStar]

Oh, I didn't see that he was voting him. In that case forget what I said. I'm gonna shut up, because I'm doing really badly so far

[Dwlee99]

the fact that we're two hours into day without a texcat lynch simply proves how incompetent this town is

[BlackStar]

He already has 3 votes on him. Calm down

[Dwlee99]

He already has 3 votes on him. Calm down

no

[Saru]

Why does this shit always happen while Im asleep.

I feel you.

Anyone who voted him was being stupid imo, obvtown by play and everyone should know LaL is a shitty policy, but you still shouldnt have hammered yourself, transcend.

QFT.

I'm going to spoiler each section of this post cause it's a bit wall-y, but I highly recommend people read it when they have they chance. I know people end up ignoring walls, but you don't have to read it all right now. Please just give it a look because I worked pretty hard on it lmfao.

Spoiler: Texcat Wagon

So, I'm going to go ahead and give the unpopular opinion here: this wagon on Texcat is just outright stupid(inb4 I'm scum defending my partner ). Dwlee's case on Texcat seems to be a case of town conf-bias. Also, voting Texcat because Transcend yelled "ZOMG ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUM! LYNCH THEM AFTER I FLIP GREEN!" is really fucking stupid. Let's face it, Transcend is a toxic player, and the more a toxic player gets angry, the more they will burrow themselves into their shit hole and will refuse to see reason. The fact that Transcend was saying that people "hard scum claimed"(obvious exaggeration) is enough to show that his state of mind was nowhere near the kind to make informed decisions. He just wanted his scum reads lynched and that's it, he wasn't going to have it any other way. That kind of player is THE WORST type of player to listen to for lynch advice, because they're drowned in conf-bias or just plain hubris.

Spoiler: BlackStar is scum

Anyways, after much re-reading, I'm starting to notice a pattern developing between two players. BlackStar and Xkfyu. Let me start with BlackStar:
This guy has coasted the entire game. Go look at his ISO. At no point does he actually build competent cases on people before he votes them. All he does is take other people's scum reads and run with them without much reasoning as to why he HIMSELF scum reads that individual. The only time he made a case was on me ONLY AFTER he was prompted by Vedith to do so. He even admitted that he made the case up on the spot, and his case on me was riddled with reach reasoning and he picked up on that when I countered him, hence his unvote. He's been on all the major wagons on D1(Snake, Saru, Zyf, and Transcend). I'm not going to quote every post that he's made, but every time he votes someone, it's always a BLANK vote with no actual reasoning attached. His pattern is this: comment on another player's scum read, play to their doubts about their scum read, then outright vote the largest wagon, and finally get off when the wagon disbands. Rinse and repeat. Just take a gander at his ISO and you'll see what I'm talking about. Oh, and surprise, surprise, whose wagon is BlackStar on now? Take a guess.
I think Vedith nicely summed up how I feel about BlackStar:

It pinged me too, but I thought I was being paranoid

Aren't you an oportunist...

Spoiler: And Xkfyu is his partner

Now, what's the case about Xkfyu? Xkfyu is more of an associative scum read with BlackStar. Go take a quick look at the interactions between BlackStar and Xkfyu. The way they talk to each other is almost TOO friendly. Again, I'm not going to quote every post, but just a quick gander at the ISO's of both BlackStar and Xkfyu in tandem should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. BlackStar almost never asks inquisitive questions to anyone else in the thread BUT Xkfyu. He throws a couple of questions towards Xkfyu to make it look like he's trying, and then after Xkfyu answers, he doesn't follow through. This is classic scum play. Ask questions towards your scum partners only so that it looks like you're being a helpful townie. It's not like your scum partner is going to get mad/annoyed at you for it, so they're a safe option to throw questions at. They'll answer how they should and move on. FWIW, masons also do this to avoid looking scummy, as I did with my mason partner in Mini 1800, but I HIGHLY doubt we have masons in this game given the claims so far. There's more that I can point out about the relationship between BlackStar and Xkfyu but I'm not going to make this wall any bigger than it needs to be, I think I've made my point clear. If anyone needs more evidence, I'll be happy to provide.

Spoiler: Who Else Is Scum?

I'm glad you asked. The answer is: most likely Tiershift. I came to this conclusion like this: I looked at the people who were hardcore lurking for most of D1(Gerry, Algebra, Texcat, and Tiershift). Why look at the lurkers? Well, I've played enough games as scum to know that there is almost always that one lurkscum. This is that person in your school's group project who sits on their ass all day while you do all the fucking work. Why work when both of your partners are taking care of things, amirite? Anyways, I can eliminate Algebra from this because there's no real reason for me to doubt his claim/cc. Gerry's lurking has been one of the worst so far, however, his recent screaming match with Sonia felt like TvT. So I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt at the moment. This could change. This leaves Texcat and Tiershift. So which one is it? Tiershift says he might vote either Texcat OR Xkfyu at some point, which seems...strange. Bussing his partner(Xkfyu) wouldn't make much sense here. Voting Texcat however, I can see him doing that as scum(seeing as a Texcat wagon was BOUND to form today). The fact that he keeps either option open is suspect. He didn't really scum read Texcat at any point D1(and even partially defended her), so why would he even THINK of voting Texcat at a time like this? He said that Transcend is a trash player, so his reasoning can't be that "I'm going to vote Texcat because Transcend said to do so" because why would he be listening to such a trash player in that case? Or did he suddenly fall in love with Dwlee's case on Texcat which he was shit-talking just the day before? Either way, it doesn't look good. So in a match-up between Tier and Tex, Tier just comes out plainly more scummy. Sure, Tex hasn't done much at the moment, but the little that she has done isn't enough for me to TR or SR either way. However, the work that Tier has done(as of recent) has just been looking really bad. This ends up being more of a PoE scum read that can change however, because I'm not so full of hubris to think I'm 3/3.

There are like 2 others things I wanted to address, but I'm going to hold off on those right now because it's not really that essential at the moment, and it'll just make this whole wall unnecessarily bigger than it already is. I'll probably talk about them in a later post.
VOTE: BlackStar

[Dwlee99]

Saru bus your buddy pleeeeasseee

[xSoniaNevermindx]

I have blackstar as to scummy to be scum honestly I guess re reading him and looking at what I called scumhunting was just baseless questions

I'd love to lynch in: Gerry/Ved/Tex//Blackstar

In that order (Dw would be between Gerry and Ved but no one wants to lynch the poor bp claim ;-;)

[BlackStar]

@Saru That part where you said I only ask Xfkyu stuff is definitely not true. And I don't know what you mean by "too friendly". I don't think I've responded to him any differently than how I talk to anyone else. You said I make a lot of naked votes. Guess what? Almost everyone does that. I expect people to ask me why I vote for the people I vote for. If you don't ask me for my reasoning, then you only have yourself to blame if you don't know why I voted for whoever I voted for. I also don't see how making a case up on the spot in scummy. Why would I have cases pre made for everyone. I know why I think people are scummy but I don't sit down and make a list of every scummy thing as it happens. So basically, you scum read me solely because you don't like my playstyle.

[texcat]

transcend did nothing wrong. why the fuck would mafia retract. you guys are so narrow minded.

GERRY YOU WERE THERE DON'T PLAY THAT BS WITH ME YOU COULD OF GOT THE LYNCH OFF HIM AND DIDN'T

I'm not trying to shift the blame off me I know I fucked up and got him lynched but you didn't get it off him when his town play was rly obv at that point

can we just lynch texcat ffs

[texcat]

Oops hit submit by mistake.

Transcend most certainly did do something wrong. He fake claimed. He made a particularly bad fake claim.

And if that makes him obv town then something is wrong. Obv town's do not fake claim. Particularly when there was no reason to fake claim. The only thing he accomplished was exposing the doc who thought he had to counterclaim.


Dwlee, just argh. If you don't have anything to say, maybe you just consider not posting.

[Vedith]

@Texcat, where do you think we should vote then?

I quite like Saru's vote. What's your view on Blackstar?

[texcat]

It looks like Saru is being the voice of reason. I need to reread Blackstar and Xk. I was voting Xk at some point yesterday, but need to review. I don't agree with his Tiershift scum read.

[Vedith]

It looks like Saru is being the voice of reason. I need to reread Blackstar and Xk. I was voting Xk at some point yesterday, but need to review. I don't agree with his Tiershift scum read.

Yeah I'm thinking Tiershift is too much of an obvious go to.
Any reason you didn't vote Trans? I'm not using this as a scum tell, considering I didn't vote myself, I want to know your thought process though.

[BlackStar]

It looks like Saru is being the voice of reason. I need to reread Blackstar and Xk. I was voting Xk at some point yesterday, but need to review. I don't agree with his Tiershift scum read.

He's the voice of reason because he won't vote for you?

[texcat]

I'm wondering why Lowell was killed and Algebra is still alive?

I did vote Trans. My vote was on him before his claim and his claim just cemented my position on him.

[texcat]

Granted that helps, but he's the voice of reason because he's actually trying to do some analysis, and not just sniping.

[Saru]

@Saru That part where you said I only ask Xfkyu stuff is definitely not true. And I don't know what you mean by "too friendly". I don't think I've responded to him any differently than how I talk to anyone else. You said I make a lot of naked votes. Guess what? Almost everyone does that. I expect people to ask me why I vote for the people I vote for. If you don't ask me for my reasoning, then you only have yourself to blame if you don't know why I voted for whoever I voted for. I also don't see how making a case up on the spot in scummy. Why would I have cases pre made for everyone. I know why I think people are scummy but I don't sit down and make a list of every scummy thing as it happens. So basically, you scum read me solely because you don't like my playstyle.

lol you're only making my scum read of you worse with a post like this. Throwing shade unto others isn't going to help you here. "Don't single me out because everyone else does it!" is basically your argument for your naked votes. I'm not sure I see other players who have made 4 naked votes in a row(all on the major wagons btw) like you have, but feel free to correct me.

So apparently you think your playstyle is scummy in general? Is that why you think you get ML'd so much on D1, like you said previous? If so, it'd be nice if you could actually show me games where you played scummy on D1 and which ended in your mis-lynch. I'm sure you're just the most scummiest townie in existence, and this is all a misunderstanding.

And yes, you've been talking to Xkfyu with a pretty different demeanor overall. You've asked him twice for advice on how you could play better(unwarranted), which you've not done with any other player. When Xkfyu said "Yeah, yeah, Saru is town, go find another lynch", instead of choosing to question at that very moment why Xkfyu thought this way, you gave a little gimmicky GIF and moved on. Heck, you even apologized to him for making him laugh while he was at work because of that GIF. Oh, how sweet of you. <3

You haven't CHALLENGED Xkfyu on any points that he's made with which you disagreed. Instead, you shrugged them off with little to no reasoning. This is EXTREMELY scum partner interaction. The friendliness doesn't come from agreeing with all his points, but instead of not choosing to further question his disagreements with you. It feels like to me you don't want to put your partner in a bad light, but you're fine with doing that to others.

[Vedith]

I'm wondering why Lowell was killed and Algebra is still alive?

I did vote Trans. My vote was on him before his claim and his claim just cemented my position on him.

Ah, my bad I thought you were else where.
Yeah I'm not sure on the Lowell kill, but I can understand the Algebra non kill. The way some people are playing in the game, it wouldn't surprise me if people tried a mis lynch there today because of the kill else where.

Lowell might have something in his ISO but I'll look when more awake.

[xSoniaNevermindx]

I want to go back and look at everyone on the Saru wagon and give them all a big fuck you lets start

@Me FUCK YOU

[xSoniaNevermindx]

Going over kills is one of my least fav things in the game cause of how many bs reasons there can be to a kill but knock yourself out.

[BlackStar]

@Saru That part where you said I only ask Xfkyu stuff is definitely not true. And I don't know what you mean by "too friendly". I don't think I've responded to him any differently than how I talk to anyone else. You said I make a lot of naked votes. Guess what? Almost everyone does that. I expect people to ask me why I vote for the people I vote for. If you don't ask me for my reasoning, then you only have yourself to blame if you don't know why I voted for whoever I voted for. I also don't see how making a case up on the spot in scummy. Why would I have cases pre made for everyone. I know why I think people are scummy but I don't sit down and make a list of every scummy thing as it happens. So basically, you scum read me solely because you don't like my playstyle.

lol you're only making my scum read of you worse with a post like this. Throwing shade unto others isn't going to help you here. "Don't single me out because everyone else does it!" is basically your argument for your naked votes. I'm not sure I see other players who have made 4 naked votes in a row(all on the major wagons btw) like you have, but feel free to correct me.

So apparently you think your playstyle is scummy in general? Is that why you think you get ML'd so much on D1, like you said previous? If so, it'd be nice if you could actually show me games where you played scummy on D1 and which ended in your mis-lynch. I'm sure you're just the most scummiest townie in existence, and this is all a misunderstanding.

And yes, you've been talking to Xkfyu with a pretty different demeanor overall. You've asked him twice for advice on how you could play better(unwarranted), which you've not done with any other player. When Xkfyu said "Yeah, yeah, Saru is town, go find another lynch", instead of choosing to question at that very moment why Xkfyu thought this way, you gave a little gimmicky GIF and moved on. Heck, you even apologized to him for making him laugh while he was at work because of that GIF. Oh, how sweet of you. <3

You haven't CHALLENGED Xkfyu on any points that he's made with which you disagreed. Instead, you shrugged them off with little to no reasoning. This is EXTREMELY scum partner interaction. The friendliness doesn't come from agreeing with all his points, but instead of not choosing to further question his disagreements with you. It feels like to me you don't want to put your partner in a bad light, but you're fine with doing that to others.

I didn't cast shade on anyone. I was saying that its normal to naked vote. I haven't beent alking to Xfkyu differently. I have no idea how you see that but maybe you should get your glasses checked If someone said that they're gonna get in trouble at work for laughing why wouldn't I say sorry? Your arguments are ridiculously dumb. What points has he made that I shruged off? And your last sentence is more baseless bs. You're full confirmation bias death tunnel mode. Oh, and you said that you wanted to see a game where I was scummy as town? Give me a couple of minutes and I'll show you

[BlackStar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=64085
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64698
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66474 (wasn't lynched here but was dangerously close to it like 3 times on day one)

[texcat]

Going over kills is one of my least fav things in the game cause of how many bs reasons there can be to a kill but knock yourself out.

It's certainly one of the least productive, but I always find myself examining it anyway.