Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 1.06

Accountant (2):

drealmerz7, copper223

Dragonfire (1):

StaplerTowel

JaeReed (1):

GuiltyLion

copper223 (3):

goodmorning, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Accountant

GuiltyLion (1):

JaeReed

Not Voting:

Dragonfire

With

9

votes,

5

votes to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-02 15:38:07).

MaidMarian replaces drealmerz7.

[goodmorning]

If you think oncilla's posts were weird, why drop suspicion just because of a replacement?

Re: oncilla, since I didn't get the same weird gut feeling from reading DDD's posts, I decided to drop suspicion. Some people, especially newbies, just come across as scummy (gut) regardless of alignment, and I think this might be the case. I feel like it's not fair to judge someone by the standards of their predecessor if said predecessor has not done anything really scummy / off.

Fair enough.

After rereading the game I'm pretty convinced both Scum are in {copper, Jae, Dragon} with DDD as the very unlikely side candidate.

I also would probably not vote Jae today though.

Why do you think I'm scum? Is it based on Asty's posts, or mine?

Both. Reading back knowing what I know now, his posts look a bit more concerning than I originally felt they were, and yours are just somehow lacking (though I did like your answer ^ so...)

Could you please explain what beetlejuicing means? Sorry, relative newbie here.

I feel like somebody already covered this, but just in case:
It's when someone shows up right after you say their name. It's not thought to be a very reliable scumtell though.

--

I'm getting pretty annoyed by copper saying he was going to reaction test DDD without actually giving any specifics as far as I can see.

I also think I've figured out the actual game we were in, & let's be fair - I had the other Scum as a suspect nearly the entire time I was alive.
Also I stopped thinking you were Scum by early D2, unless I'm wrong about who you are/the game.
Also, the Scum lynched first was not the one you thought was Scum but the one I thought was Scum. So.
Alsox3: I'm a better player now than I was 2.5 years ago.

[CrisP]

I'm getting pretty annoyed by copper saying he was going to reaction test DDD without actually giving any specifics as far as I can see.

I don't have other big specifics to add.

I was not a fan of either of the main arguments at the time (Accountant vs Drealmerz and GM vs Jae) and prior to that I remember thinking I liked all of the newbies in the game, so I re-read the thread to see if I had missed something and Serra's comment about newbscum selectively picking what to mention as opposed to linearly going through the thread and trying to game solve everything popped up while I was reading Oncilla, so my focus shifted there.

Soon after he made his replacement post and that's when I decided to call whoever replaced scummy in his entrance post and see how he and everyone else would react to it (initially it was going to be something like: sucks to replace into a scum-slot eh?).

But GL was replaced before him and I've already stated what I did not like about his catch-up multiple times, the tone I used when claiming he was caught scum was totally off the top but I genuinely believed he was a likely candidate and when I read DDD's entrance where he fails to mention GL despite ending up voting for the same player the connection jumped up to me so I continued that line of inquiry.

It could still be valid, the problem (like any kind of associative) is that it relies on Jae being town, something I believed at the time, but I really have a problem with the way they reacted to GL's case and how they justified not being up to date nor reading the thread with being bummed town.

I call BS on Accountant thinking that I made all of that up, both the tone I used when scum-reading GL/DDD and the way I replied to him when he asked me about the scum-slip are pretty clear signs that I was up to something, now I understand someone may believe it was some weird scum gambit to demonstrate that I was doing something and not coasting, but not that I made the whole reaction test up after the fact.

@GM: Nope, wrong game, you self-hammered and mind gamer won the lylo after I replaced out.

[copper223]

Sorry that was me, I went back and checked that old game .

[Accountant]

both the tone I used when scum-reading GL/DDD and the way I replied to him when he asked me about the scum-slip are pretty clear signs that I was up to something

explain

[copper223]

VOTE: Lion
That catch-up is almost a scum claim.

Okay guys, scum is DDD and GL, we can wrap this up.

I just don't post like this, having played a lot of mafia and having been wrong a ton of times I make fun of people thinking they have sure-fire caught scum at the start of D1.

In the game I mentioned where Charloux replaced out I said on page 3(?) that I was going to throw the scum team out there (I actually got 1) because if I was right I could brag to the end of beyond and if I was wrong (as obviously super likely) nobody would remember it anyway.

I will address your concern in the near future.

Because I haven't finished playing with GL and DDD to see how they are going to react.

[Accountant]

I just don't post like this, having played a lot of mafia and having been wrong a ton of times I make fun of people thinking they have sure-fire caught scum at the start of D1.

In the game I mentioned where Charloux replaced out I said on page 3(?) that I was going to throw the scum team out there (I actually got 1) because if I was right I could brag to the end of beyond and if I was wrong (as obviously super likely) nobody would remember it anyway.

1) Plenty of people play like this so how do you expect me to know that's not your style?

2) Aren't you literally contradicting yourself here? You claim you don't do X then post an example of you doing X in another game.

[copper223]

@Accountant
1) Because it doesn't hold up with me going on with you for 2 pages and making up a detailed case on you on demand, either I prepare my actions beforehand or I can make it up on the spot or I am genuine about it, doesn't make sense to assume I can sometimes invent a case and in another instance I need to coast or fake weird stuff in order to buy time to make something up; this should be pretty obvious to you as well by now.

2) Yes, but it's was done in a non-serious manner, as a joke, it shows my attitude about it much better than me saying: man I would neeeever do that.

[Accountant]

doesn't make sense to assume I can sometimes invent a case and in another instance I need to coast or fake weird stuff in order to buy time to make something up

Why not? I think you're the sort of person who likes to prepare his stuff carefully as scum, unless it's part of a pre-prepared push(which is why you've been playing conservative then suddenly the "reaction test" and the attack on me). So you'd definitely be able to smoothly read your scripted case against me, but when someone pushes you on something you're not expecting(the reaction test) you panic and make shit up.

It's not exactly an uncommon pattern. I do it myself as scum, which is why GL thought I was scummy wrt my townread on him.

[copper223]

Why not? I think you're the sort of person who likes to prepare his stuff carefully as scum, unless it's part of a pre-prepared push(which is why you've been playing conservative then suddenly the "reaction test" and the attack on me). So you'd definitely be able to smoothly read your scripted case against me, but when someone pushes you on something you're not expecting(the reaction test) you panic and make shit up.

If I had prepared the reaction test beforehand (which at least is something I might do as scum) then why would I panic when you push me about it, I failed to consider someone would ask me about it after putting myself on the spot beforehand?

If you're genuinely town and think that's what's happening take a look at any game where I was scum.

[goodmorning]

Sorry that was me, I went back and checked that old game .

I had the right game but the wrong slot. The thing about the Scum is still accurate. I only scumread you for like a week, before that I thought you were just silly Town.
also tbf i think jmo won the lylo but ymmv

Anyway, what I'm asking is what exactly was the reaction test? Or, if you didn't do one, what were you going to do? Or are you doing one now (in which case, idgi)?

[copper223]

It's not exactly an uncommon pattern. I do it myself as scum, which is why GL thought I was scummy wrt my townread on him.

The problem with your GL town-read is that nowhere in your ISO does it look like you are town-reading him particularly strongly (let alone him being the strongest town-read of them all), starting from you asking me about the scum-slip as if it's a possibility (and not: copper what are you talking about, GL is obviously town) and to the extent that you argue with him about his case on Jae being misguided but then think it's a good idea for you to sheep him on the wagon you say you think he is on.

If reacting badly to surprises is one of your problems as scum, I think you were not expecting me to ask you about the vote and that's what you came up with.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What's your stance on copper, GL?

might be scum, would lynch today. Some of the P->Q stuff he's posting reminds me of my scum play where I hone in on logic arguments and use that to deflect any notion of ~feelings~. However I'd like to see him respond to my questions and I'm more interested in Jae atm

Yeah, but a Jae lynch isn't happening today. Accountant seems solidly opposed and both GM and I like copper a fair amount more for scum.

Because I haven't finished playing with GL and DDD to see how they are going to react.

A) How are a bog standard attack and scummy misreps a reaction test and how is that claim not just the last refuge of a scoundrel?
B) The fact that I now "know" it's a reaction test make my further reactions relatively worthless since I know I'm being tested though. Which makes it kind of curious how quick you were to publicly claim your nonsense as a reaction test because as soon as you claim that the test is effectively over.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

LA notice: my sister's wedding is tomorrow so with rehearsal tonight I don't know how much I'll be around today/tomorrow but I'll try to keep plugged in.

[Accountant]

It's not exactly an uncommon pattern. I do it myself as scum, which is why GL thought I was scummy wrt my townread on him.

The problem with your GL town-read is that nowhere in your ISO does it look like you are town-reading him particularly strongly (let alone him being the strongest town-read of them all), starting from you asking me about the scum-slip as if it's a possibility (and not: copper what are you talking about, GL is obviously town) and to the extent that you argue with him about his case on Jae being misguided but then think it's a good idea for you to sheep him on the wagon you say you think he is on.

If reacting badly to surprises is one of your problems as scum, I think you were not expecting me to ask you about the vote and that's what you came up with.

there's a part in my iso which makes it very clear I am town reading him strongly

it's the part which says "guiltylion is my strongest town read"

no idea what you mean about the scumslip

I think GL is misguided about Jae but he's a good player and also town so obviously I'd be more than happy to sheep him in general, just not on that specific case.

again, if I was scum and you asked me about that vote I'd have just said GM and be done with it

[copper223]

Anyway, what I'm asking is what exactly was the reaction test? Or, if you didn't do one, what were you going to do? Or are you doing one now (in which case, idgi)?

I give it 100% to mind gamer.

The reaction test was calling the Oncilla replacement scum and seeing how they'd react, I'd hoped GIF would replace him with a newbie as well.

Once GL posted his catch-up it morphed (although here it's not just a reaction test, it's more of an over the top scumread) to doing the same to him.

Once DDD posted, the possible connection between the two slots jumped up to me so I continued in the same vein including him as well.

Everything after the accountant vote and read request is not a reaction test anymore, it's me trying to figure DDD out and after that the players on my wagon.

[Dragonfire]

I wanted to get a handle on your mindset. Beetlejuicing means to ignore the thread until someone mentions or accuses you, then you pop back in solely to defend yourself. It's seen as scummy because it means you only care about not getting lynched.

Oh right -thanks for informing me

And what

have

you gleaned about my mindset from my answers?

Both. Reading back knowing what I know now, his posts look a bit more concerning than I originally felt they were, and yours are just somehow lacking (though I did like your answer ^ so...)

What do you mean by "knowing what [you] know now"? Why would that make Asty's posts scummier?

Why not? I think you're the sort of person who likes to prepare his stuff carefully as scum, unless it's part of a pre-prepared push(which is why you've been playing conservative then suddenly the "reaction test" and the attack on me). So you'd definitely be able to smoothly read your scripted case against me, but when someone pushes you on something you're not expecting(the reaction test) you panic and make shit up.

If I had prepared the reaction test beforehand (which at least is something I might do as scum) then why would I panic when you push me about it, I failed to consider someone would ask me about it after putting myself on the spot beforehand?

If you're genuinely town and think that's what's happening take a look at any game where I was scum.

To be honest I think this is TvT. This post illustrates why I think copper is town - the logic does not make sense; why would scum-copper randomly call out first GL, and then both GL and DDD as scum just like that? He would know it would draw attention to him. The fact that it seems out-of-character for copper makes me think that it was a reaction test, and he is town.

B) The fact that I now "know" it's a reaction test make my further reactions relatively worthless since I know I'm being tested though. Which makes it kind of curious how quick you were to publicly claim your nonsense as a reaction test because as soon as you claim that the test is effectively over.

I might be mistaken here, but I believe the "reaction test" was simply copper stating "GL's catch-up post is a scum claim" and "GL and DDD are the two scum". After you and GL reacted to it, it essentially ceased to be a reaction test and he could admit to it. Once a reaction test is over, shouldn't the person admit to it? Also, what motivation would scum-copper have to randomly state those things in thread?

[Dragonfire]

Oh and it appears yet another replacement will be joining us before long...

[Accountant]

This post illustrates why I think copper is town - the logic does not make sense; why would scum-copper randomly call out first GL, and then both GL and DDD as scum just like that? He would know it would draw attention to him. The fact that it seems out-of-character for copper makes me think that it was a reaction test, and he is town.

Because he was trying to look like cocky town.

[Dragonfire]

This post illustrates why I think copper is town - the logic does not make sense; why would scum-copper randomly call out first GL, and then both GL and DDD as scum just like that? He would know it would draw attention to him. The fact that it seems out-of-character for copper makes me think that it was a reaction test, and he is town.

Because he was trying to look like cocky town.

Why don't you think it was a reaction test?

[copper223]

A) How are a bog standard attack and scummy misreps a reaction test and how is that claim not just the last refuge of a scoundrel?

How is the above not a product of terrible confbias or scum?

There is no misrep in stating that what you said about the players you were reading doesn't match the reads you came up with at the end (in fact you partially admit it yourself by later claiming that was not a "serious case" on someone, an accusation by the way which I never made in the first place).

My points about your catch-up are still the same:

- You ignore GL although you end up voting for the same player.

- You don't give me the impression you were scum-reading Jae.

- What you cite with regards to Drealmer can only be interpreted as a joke but then you put him as top town.

You later claim that the comments you choose were there to help us follow your logic, well if that's true you did a goddam awful job in your selection.

B) The fact that I now "know" it's a reaction test make my further reactions relatively worthless since I know I'm being tested though. Which makes it kind of curious how quick you were to publicly claim your nonsense as a reaction test because as soon as you claim that the test is effectively over.

The purpose of the test was getting your initial reaction to the scum-claim, I waited a bit more because I wanted to see how Jae would reply. After the wagon on me formed I had something else far more interesting to focus on.

[copper223]

@Dragon
I don't think Accountant is town.

If you think he is, what do you make of the part where he says he sheeps his strongest townread GuiltyLion (who isn't voting for me) in reply to why he decided to join the wagon?

[Accountant]

This post illustrates why I think copper is town - the logic does not make sense; why would scum-copper randomly call out first GL, and then both GL and DDD as scum just like that? He would know it would draw attention to him. The fact that it seems out-of-character for copper makes me think that it was a reaction test, and he is town.

Because he was trying to look like cocky town.

Why don't you think it was a reaction test?

Because that's not what a reaction test looks like.

[copper223]

This is what I was talking about wrt to the scumslip

Sorry; I don't see the scum claim. Can you please elaborate why it's a scum claim, copper?

You claimed GuiltyLion was your top town-read because of his entrance (for reasons that are still pretty murky by the way), this post does not look like a reaction to someone claiming to have found a scum-slip on your top town-read.

[copper223]

Lol it also neatly shows that it was in fact a reaction test (you not being the target makes the whole thing pretty funny).