Kids TV Show Characters Mafia - Endgame

[DiamondSentinel]

"I don't like people calling me scum or telling me my thoughts are bad in a mafia game."

Then why fucking play mafia.

a. Not what they said.

b. Could you stop being an asshole? I mean, seriously. You've done nothing but be downright rude to others this entire game. You haven't even added anything constructive to the game.

Fact.

Even more so.

Mod: please replace me.

Is there anything we could do to get you to stay, farside?

[Grib]

camntsuki got kicked out of the game for attacking Magna out of the game, and for using a word one of the mods is not comfortable with.

It was a good decision.

I can't speak for Magna as a person outside of what I've seen in this game, which hasn't been anything worth camntsuki's BS.

[BROseidon]

Why do people think being nice is such a chore.

Because it is sometimes.

[Grib]

Make an actual effort unless you want to chase more people out.

[Spiffeh]

I don't really think anything out of line has been said since I replaced in.

Like the game of Mafia is bound to make people angry/frustrated

[Grib]

That is different from what's been simmering through the entire game.

Frustration and anger are inevitable. Constantly being an asshole is not.

[Grib]

It wears on some people, I guess.

You do you, but don't be surprised when people stop wanting to play with you because of it.

[BROseidon]

Like, the sequence of events from my POV has basically been:

1) A bunch of people are dicks to me, misrepresenting what I say and attacking my intelligence, dignity, and right to play mafia in my style.

2) I don't hold back (beyond what the laws of the game require me to) because if you're going to fundamentally attack me as a person (as either a tactic or because fuck you), I'm not going to sit and take it.

3) People complain that I'm being mean to them or their friends.

Like, grow the fuck up. If you can't take being attacked directly in a game of mafia, don't fucking play mafia. Especially if you're going to spend the game spewing idiotic bullshit from your mouth. One thing that Katsuki and I at least have is a self-awareness of when we are being dicks to people. DS, farside, MoI, Grib, you all seem to fundamentally lack that self-awareness. You legitimately don't seem to understand why at every turn I'm being a dick to you,

because none of you have had an interaction at any point with me that demonstrated that you have any respect for me.

You don't respect me? Fine, but I'm not going to show you any respect back.

This is also an issue I have, in general, with how we've come to moderate toxicity on this site. You're allowed to be mean in a very middle-school mean girls sort of way, but you can't respond to it in ways that are appropriate within certain cultural lenses. You all complain about me being mean? Holy fuck you wouldn't have lasted a day in my house growing up. Western WASP-derived passive-aggressiveness isn't something we all grew up in. Some of us grew up in houses where expressing all our emotions, including frustration and anger, in direct, meaningful was was normal. And that's not allowed here because of the dominant culture of people who end up on the site. For some people from other cultural backgrounds, that's going to be a clash.

This is also tied to why I think there

has

to be scum in there, because I don't think the four of you can all have your heads so far up each other's asses - someone has to be playing the others. It's why I'm wary of Ceph - he's doing some shit that's pinging me, and he's playing to my ego and our relationship that spans mafia games going back since I joined the site, meets we've both attended, Survivor games in mishmash, and the Skype channels we're in tied to those Survivor games. Him playing to my ego could be just a sort of natural thing if he's town b/c we tend to see things in a similar way, but there's always going to be a degree of paranoia that he's playing that up to try to get into a blindspot. If he's scum, it may not even be intentional - it could be completely intuitive/natural, or it could be my personal feelings blinding how I make a read there (like I've said, there are certain players, although not ones in this game, who I'll refuse to ever commit to a read on because I fundamentally cannot read them).

[BROseidon]

Make an actual effort unless you want to chase more people out.

I have.

Actually, since I've started engaging with this game, I've provided far more useful content than you have.

So put up or shut up.

[Grib]

Does putting out more content have anything to do with your attitude grating?

I'm fine with my posts as they are, as far as making people see that I'm town and making my lynch choices and the reasoning for them clear.

[Grib]

I haven't read the rest of your wall because I'm walking and phoneposting, in case there was something else in there.

[BROseidon]

Oh I interpreted that as making an effort in the game.

A few people not wanting to play with me isn't that big of a concern to me. Fuck, what I said to Spiffeh in Buzzfeed was far, far worse than anything I've said to anyone in this game, and yet he's still here.

Grow up.

[BROseidon]

I haven't read the rest of your wall because I'm walking and phoneposting, in case there was something else in there.

tl;dr get your head out of your ass about your attitude and also about being so blind to potential scum sitting in a blindspot if you're town. You don't have the moral highground here, as much as you think you do due to your Euro-WASP centricity.

[Transcend]

Lol hunna twelve pages

Lol reading none of this.

[DiamondSentinel]

Yeah, we kinda expected that, since very few people actually are. But whatever

[Grib]

Hm.

My tl;dr that I have yet to write is that I'm interested in extending an olive branch and seeing what civil discussion will bring us to.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Farside I'm sorry to see you go ... you were one of my few touchstones of reasonableness in this game.

[Cephrir]

i'm not sure whether or not to be flattered, bro

even if i'm scum here (i know this is a strange thing to say; shoosh) a lot of my scum game is pretty subconscious!

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be V/LA from now until Monday morning for my usual family duties.

[Cephrir]

i guess part of it is probably that i don't have to fake a need for other people to like me.

when people don't like me, you get me this game.

[Eleven]

Mod: please replace me.

Ok.

kraska77 has also requested replacement.

[Eleven]

Zulfy replaces farside22

[SnarkySnowman]

Place BRO in my town bracket here I'm pretty sure.

[Eleven]

Votecount 2.18

[5] DiamondSentinel ~ Medical Junkies, Firebringer, BROseidon, kdowns, hiplop
[4] kdowns ~ MagnaofIllusion, Grib, SnarkySnowman, Gammagooey
[2] hiplop ~ Zulfy, DiamondSentinel
[1] BROseidon ~ kraska77
[1] Cephrir ~ Spiffeh
[1] Firebringer ~ Cephrir
[1] Spiffeh ~ Transcend

Not Voting (0) - ~~~

With 15 alive, it's 8 to lynch!

Deadline is at (expired on 2016-09-05 12:00:00).
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[/quote]

[Grib]

Spoiler: kinda ?oog? stuff

Like, the sequence of events from my POV has basically been:

1) A bunch of people are dicks to me, misrepresenting what I say and attacking my intelligence, dignity, and right to play mafia in my style.

2) I don't hold back (

beyond what the laws of the game require me to

) because if you're going to fundamentally attack me as a person (as either a tactic or because fuck you), I'm not going to sit and take it.

3) People complain that I'm being mean to them or their friends.

I won't really comment on this stuff because there's probably a lot of players you felt have done this, and I can't really speak for them.

I don't ~think I've gone out of my way to be mean to you (as in instigating a fight), but if I have, then I apologize.

I will say that I think the underlined is problematic, because deliberately pushing people (even if you think they deserve it) tends to just escalate and make everyone upset.

Like, grow the fuck up. If you can't take being attacked directly in a game of mafia, don't fucking play mafia. Especially if you're going to spend the game spewing idiotic bullshit from your mouth. One thing that Katsuki and I at least have is a self-awareness of when we are being dicks to people. DS, farside, MoI, Grib, you all seem to fundamentally lack that self-awareness. You legitimately don't seem to understand why at every turn I'm being a dick to you,

because none of you have had an interaction at any point with me that demonstrated that you have any respect for me.

You don't respect me? Fine, but I'm not going to show you any respect back.

Eh, also something I disagree with. Not everyone has thick skin, and handwaving them aside and saying they shouldn't play mafia is borderline bullying them out of the game. The whole "spewing" thing is another matter, especially if it turns personal. If you simply don't like someone's reads or pushes, that's not a free pass to be mean to them. I've seen a lot of the latter this game.

Acknowledging you are a dick and continuing to be a dick is not something to be proud of.

I will freely acknowledge that it's easy for me to slip into being a passive-aggressive asshole. I try to control myself when I can, but I also give in to not wanting to "lose" the argument by stepping away first.

Looking through my posts (specifically showcasing an interaction with you), I see that I might have started being PA to you because you said I was deliberately being disruptive and it was worth a policy lynch, the reasons for which you didn't elaborate on and I never understood. I probably also thought you were treating several players unfairly, so I reacted to that.

This is also an issue I have, in general, with how we've come to moderate toxicity on this site. You're allowed to be mean in a very middle-school mean girls sort of way, but you can't respond to it in ways that are appropriate within certain cultural lenses. You all complain about me being mean? Holy fuck you wouldn't have lasted a day in my house growing up. Western WASP-derived passive-aggressiveness isn't something we all grew up in. Some of us grew up in houses where expressing all our emotions, including frustration and anger, in direct, meaningful was was normal. And that's not allowed here because of the dominant culture of people who end up on the site. For some people from other cultural backgrounds, that's going to be a clash.

Okay, there's a difference in how people deal with expressing emotions. We're probably just going to have to have a difference of opinion here: I still don't think that makes lashing out at strangers okay.

I mean, anger is fine. Frustration is fine. Expressing it is fine. But going beyond that and attempting to deliberately make the other person feel bad is not. Plus, you're making a lot of assumptions about the other person behind the screen. You aren't a special snowflake. I don't say that to be mean, or PA.

But yeah, culture clash.

This is also tied to why I think there

has

to be scum in there, because I don't think the four of you can all have your heads so far up each other's asses - someone has to be playing the others. It's why I'm wary of Ceph - he's doing some shit that's pinging me, and he's playing to my ego and our relationship that spans mafia games going back since I joined the site, meets we've both attended, Survivor games in mishmash, and the Skype channels we're in tied to those Survivor games. Him playing to my ego could be just a sort of natural thing if he's town b/c we tend to see things in a similar way, but there's always going to be a degree of paranoia that he's playing that up to try to get into a blindspot. If he's scum, it may not even be intentional - it could be completely intuitive/natural, or it could be my personal feelings blinding how I make a read there (like I've said, there are certain players, although not ones in this game, who I'll refuse to ever commit to a read on because I fundamentally cannot read them).

Ceph has popped up on my radar as well. I think the first sign of it for me was because I thought most of the people he wanted to lynch were town.

More than anything, my problem is that I think this site fosters an environment where everyone thinks it's okay to be as mean as they want, as long as it's within the boundaries of the site's rules (which are pretty out there). And then people who don't like that are told to stop playing mafia, or get off the Internet, or to

die

, a la camntsuki. Sure, they probably didn't mean it literally, but it's still definitely not okay.

Like. This site has a /ban thread/. And a lot of the people banned are repeat offenders, who can't seem to learn their lesson, because they think they're entitled to being as mean as they want, because it's Not Against The Rules, blah blah blah, the cycle continues. I find that problematic.

But I digress.

tl;dr we could all probably stand to be less mean in whatever way we express it and reel the focus back onto finding scum.

Because most of us are teammates and we should be working together.

I'll try to put together a reads list or something soon.