Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[Accountant]

You have to actually answer the questions people ask you

Are you making up rules now?

Yes and everyone agrees with me so we can force you to follow the rules :^)

[ironstove]

Then make me

[Accountant]

Okay everyone, ironstove clearly isn't interested in helping to contribute to this game. He's either scum who needs rope or reluctant town who needs vote pressure to convince him to participate. Either way, we should all vote him.

VOTE: ironstove

[goodmorning]

@ironstove: Hi! Please explain the Accountant vote and also catch up ASAP.

[ironstove]

I'm voting for accountant because he is scum.

[Accountant]

GM why aren't you voting iron?

[goodmorning]

A. I really don't want us to forget how scummy copper is
B. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. He's got one more chance.

@ironstove: What makes you think Accountant is Scum?

[ironstove]

Why do you think the blue sky is blue? Why do you think clothes dipped in water are wet? Why are you asking me why I think someone that is scum is scum?

Are you scum as well?

If not then sheep this and let's find the next scum on the list.

[ironstove]

I'm not wasting my time building cases on people, I have 22 pages of evidence laid out in front of me on why accountant is a mafia scum. I will continue to tunnel him this entire game until one of us are lynched, less a more scummy target crosses my sights.

The maid slot is also very sus. I'll settle for either one of these as lynches. You can be a crybaby and lynch me for not sharing information, but you'll be lynching town, whereas accountant just wants me lynched because he's a mafia.

[copper223]

I would have pressure voted as well if I thought it would have made a difference, but since iron's posting all over the site is the same I doubt he is going to magically start playing differently here just because we ask him to do so, one way or another.

The stapler slot looked town because of the paranoid approach to the game he showed and what iron is doing is troll, but non particularly scummy, so although removing a potential pain in the ass to work with is tempting I am not going to policy in a newbie.

@iron
If you want your scum-reads to be taken seriously you'll have to explain to us dummies what makes accountant scum here.

[Dragonfire]

Ok, I'm caught up.

VOTE: copper

See you guys later.

UNVOTE: copper[/vote]

VOTE: Accountant

Can I ask you, what made you vote copper and then switch? If you think Accountant is confirmed scum, why vote copper in the first place.

I would have pressure voted as well if I thought it would have made a difference, but since iron's posting all over the site is the same I doubt he is going to magically start playing differently here just because we ask him to do so, one way or another.

Just when I thought we'd finally get a new perspective on this....

The stapler slot looked town because of the paranoid approach to the game he showed and what iron is doing is troll, but non particularly scummy, so although removing a potential pain in the ass to work with is tempting I am not going to policy in a newbie.

Yeah, there's no point in lynching him, it won't tell us anything at all (if he flips town), as the slot's been inactive for most of the game.

@iron
If you want your scum-reads to be taken seriously you'll have to explain to us dummies what makes accountant scum here.

Exactly. You can't get someone lynched all by yourself, ironstove. You need to make a case on him to try and convince us.

[ironstove]

GM why aren't you voting iron?

More bloodthirsty than a vampire

Could you be less obvious in trying to spill the blood of the innocent?

[ironstove]

Scratch off maid, I'll let DDD take her spot. DDD or Accountant today fam.

[ironstove]

Can I ask you, what made you vote copper and then switch? If you think Accountant is confirmed scum, why vote copper in the first place.

He's really annoying, so I want him out, but... I'd be going against my town duties by policy lynching one of my own, so instead I'll suck it up and eliminate the scum that has been instigating instead... You can consider the vote a symbolic slap to his face followed by a 'wake up man!'

[copper223]

VOTE: DDD

[goodmorning]

iron's posting all over the site is the same

N1730 begs to differ.

Which makes me wonder.

[copper223]

Opened the game linked, saw a VT claim at the start of the ISO, checked the roles to make sure it was not done as scum, closed the thread.

What I have been browsing is his recent posting onsite and he is being less rude here than elsewhere.

[GuiltyLion]

Well, I guess I'm stupid. I meant to ask you who your strongest townread was, but for some reason I wrote "scumread" instead. Who is your strongest townread anyway?

I don't like talking about my "strongest" townreads, I know that a lot of players think readslists are useful but IMO the information they give scum is more valuable than the information they give town.

I will not vote goodmorning, drealmer/Marian slot, or copper today. Those three are people I am the most confident in being town.

[GuiltyLion]

wrt Jae, let's get on the same page here:

There's no real need for a reaction test when you could just poke at him in other ways? Like the fact that he fucking ignored everyone else with his catchup. He seemed to come into the game with the sole purpose of finding one person to push as scum, and his reasonings were flimsy as fuck

You just saw me replace into another Newbie and push/tunnel scum the exact same way. Why are you suggesting I'm scum for it here?

GL is tunneling based off an early push, which is why I think he's a good candidate for scum, btw, aside from the fucking misrep. He's just not this bad at reading me when he's town, and he's not negligent enough to miss shit multiple times. Which makes me believe he's intentionally doing it. That said, there were a few rare times where I checked the thread and he commented something that wasn't his stupid push on me as scum, and the content was fine there, so I'm not sure if I'm biased being the one that wrote the posts. I just can't understand how he repeatedly misreps.

If you're going to accuse me of misreps, then you need to point out exactly what the misreps are. If it's the point that you got into later with Dragonfire about whether you said Asty was scum independent of gm, you absolutely did.

I can also see Asty as scum buddying the IC and SE's

I already pointed this out:

a) No that's my reasoning for pushing GM and trying to sort her early.

b) I explained the GM/Asty partners thing. It was GM selectively not pressuring Asty. When I looked back over it I realized Asty would have literally had to make a post with no other intention than "hi scum buddy!" which is a pretty stupid conclusion to draw there. So not on the same team. In fact, I explained this in my second paragraph.

c) The underlined is not a contradiction? Earlier in the paragraph I'm talking about them being buddies, later in the paragraph I'm talking about Asty potentially being scum on an individual basis.

You're not reading my posts. You're not legitimately trying to sort me, and I know that you are

not

this bad as town.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I plan to get to this game later tonight but I wasn't going to let that bs slide. That right there? THAT is actual misrep.

a) So what have you sorted her as now? Scum? Town?

b) Originally your case was that you thought GM was softballing her buddy by ignoring his scummy RVS post. Now you're saying Asty had no scum motivation for his post. Why is GM still scum?

c) You're clearly NOT talking about them being buddies. You said "I can't see scum motivation for Asty to buddy GM in their first post". That implies scum!Asty and town!GM.

also how do you know I'm "not this bad as town"? Explain exactly what you mean by that

and I would still like answers to all of these questions, btw

That said, I really like how you chased down Accountant for his townread on you, his townread on me is also problematic in much the same way and I'm not at all convinced by 441
VOTE: Accountant

[GuiltyLion]

Okay everyone, ironstove clearly isn't interested in helping to contribute to this game. He's either scum who needs rope or

reluctant town who needs vote pressure to convince him to participate

. Either way, we should all vote him.

VOTE: ironstove

also this feels to me a lot like jumping off of one mislynch and onto another

there's no need for "vote pressure" at this stage of D1, we have 500+ posts already and ~3 days until deadline

[copper223]

@Dragon
Who is scum?

I keep on reading sensible and "proper" posts from you, many of which I happen to agree on, that however always end in you

not

scum-reading someone.

[copper223]

@GL
Accountant has been pedantic all game, starting from his Drealmerz case, but I don't know if that's AI for him, I thought so for a while but his tunnel on me seemed genuine at the end.

[JaeReed]

Why does she have an obligation to help someone she's scum reading by providing them reasons to be argued and refuted?

Because if she's town, she doesn't want to mislynch a townie, so she would want to give them a chance to defend themselves and make a case for why they're town. A townie who refuses to discuss their scumreads or even consider that they're town is either deathtunneling or a bad player.

Second, you and copper seem to make the same mistake, that every post in the game should be weighted exactly the same and that everything you do needs to be full bore on target. But that's not how mafia works and it's frustrating to me that you guys don't get that or are pretending not to get it. In this case, GM appears to prefer a copper lynch to your lynch; in the interest of transparency and future development she notes that she thinks you're scum but if she provided reasons then you'd start arguing about them and maybe someone else would chime in on the topic and attention would be drawn away from where she wants it, copper. Now that's just speculation but it would be my logic in her shoes. Mafia isn't just a game of being right and it's not just a game of persuasion, it's a game of momentum, and motivation, and social dynamics. And when you and copper argue over process it's very hard for me to tell whether you're just misguided or if you're trying to drown the town in these things that don't matter.

What was the point of this? You're doing the same thing you complained about in the last sentence here. I also agree with Dragon that you should at least give some kinda reason for your read, but that's theory so w/e.

I shouldn't townread sass, BUT I DO.

--

I kind of want to vote Dragon now but not really explain it.

--

@ironstove: Hi! Please explain the Accountant vote and also catch up ASAP.

--

p-edit: i'm not actively trying to lynch dragon atm though

^^^(but ytf did he comment on it, eh?)

Stop attempting to buddy me.

Nothing written on this page so far helps town, except for the VC and deadline extension request.

@iron what led you to the conclusion it was LyLo??

You get no free town points for this. Just FYI. It's super LAMIST and I'm especially wary of posts like that from you because it's an easy way for you to look pro-town if you're scum and you would totally do that. But yeah that 2nd question is something I wanted asked so bringing this up again.

@Iron
What did you make of DDD's first post?

You didn't ask me to look at DDD's first post again? Why is important to know what iron thinks of it but not me?

[copper223]

You didn't ask me to look at DDD's first post again? Why is important to know what iron thinks of it but not me?

I want first impressions, not re-reads.

You already read that and did not mention it at the time, I'm factoring that in as evidence that town_DDD might have had for claiming I was misrepping him.

Why, do you now think it's a weird post?

If most of the new players don't mention it or agree with him it's more likely that's a genuine perspective he's had all game, if instead that's not the case (which iron signaled before when he said he would lynch him) he is more likely to be scum among the three stoogies.

[ironstove]

His first post is null/troll town, but the follow up is bullshit when he tries to purport that it's a list of serious reads.