Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[ironstove]

Scared that your partner will be hanged on D1? I understand that sentiment having played as mafia myself in other games in the past. But sometimes it's better to just let go of the things that are holding you back, otherwise you will never be able to spread your wings and fly, instead you will be dragged down and drown in the ocean waters.

[goodmorning]

Fuck, I hate to do this but GM, I know we didn't play together much but could you please tell these space cadets that my first post isn't weird. What horrifying reality have I entered where levity and brevity are sins.

I mean, tbf, I scumread you back when I was a Newb.

It's not framed weirdly, if that's the issue.

I was kind of ignoring that whole thing because I thought it was silly, can someone give me a quick summary?

@copper: Please stop arguing that DDD should have been able to predict the future. Brahe didn't know about the Big Bang or the expanding universe, to use your example.

@ironstove: Please stop being useless.

--

I was pretty ambivalent about DDD but now I have STRONG OPINIONS, I think.

[JaeReed]

Hey I'll get to this in a sec was mum's birthday today catching up in like half an hour.

[Accountant]

Scared that your partner will be hanged on D1? I understand that sentiment having played as mafia myself in other games in the past. But sometimes it's better to just let go of the things that are holding you back, otherwise you will never be able to spread your wings and fly, instead you will be dragged down and drown in the ocean waters.

I'm town tho

[JaeReed]

wrt Jae, let's get on the same page here:

There's no real need for a reaction test when you could just poke at him in other ways? Like the fact that he fucking ignored everyone else with his catchup. He seemed to come into the game with the sole purpose of finding one person to push as scum, and his reasonings were flimsy as fuck

You just saw me replace into another Newbie and push/tunnel scum the exact same way. Why are you suggesting I'm scum for it here?

Burden of Proficiency, to put it simply. In that Newbie you actually tunneled scum. You also told me to back off frog, iirc. So you were paying attention to other stuff and did prove that you were doing so early on. This game you just came in with "Jae's scum" with a bunch of misrepping (at least fmpov) and reachy reasoning.

GL is tunneling based off an early push, which is why I think he's a good candidate for scum, btw, aside from the fucking misrep. He's just not this bad at reading me when he's town, and he's not negligent enough to miss shit multiple times. Which makes me believe he's intentionally doing it. That said, there were a few rare times where I checked the thread and he commented something that wasn't his stupid push on me as scum, and the content was fine there, so I'm not sure if I'm biased being the one that wrote the posts. I just can't understand how he repeatedly misreps.

If you're going to accuse me of misreps, then you need to point out exactly what the misreps are. If it's the point that you got into later with Dragonfire about whether you said Asty was scum independent of gm, you absolutely did.

I didn't though. This is my point about you not actually reading the intent of the posts. Like, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold you to a certain minimum standard of reading intent rather than going for a semantics angle wrt my posting when I know for a fact that you're generally pretty good at this game and have played with me before.

Like, you've just selectively quoted one bit without context there to "prove" your point. That's cherrypicking and it's bullshit. I was trying to read motivation from both scum and town Asty. That's not me saying I scumread him. That's me saying I could see there being scum motivation in the action if he were scum and GM were town. I couldn't see the scum motivation beyond "hi buddy" if they were both scum. I could see scum motivation from GM if she were scum and he were town (he'd also be buddying the IC/SE's which newbtown do as well depending on their previous experiences with the game as a whole, obviously the motivation is different from him doing it as scum) to not push on that and make it look like they were buddies (which is where I was pushing GM for that and not Asty because I couldn't see TOWN motivation for not pushing on it given that she had pushed on small things with everyone else, so it followed logically to me that she should have also pushed on that thing with Asty). Basically: the whole reason I didn't push Asty was because I could see two sides to that coin. The reason I did push GM was because I couldn't see the town side, so she became my first early scumread.

I can also see Asty as scum buddying the IC and SE's

I already pointed this out:

a) No that's my reasoning for pushing GM and trying to sort her early.

b) I explained the GM/Asty partners thing. It was GM selectively not pressuring Asty. When I looked back over it I realized Asty would have literally had to make a post with no other intention than "hi scum buddy!" which is a pretty stupid conclusion to draw there. So not on the same team. In fact, I explained this in my second paragraph.

c) The underlined is not a contradiction? Earlier in the paragraph I'm talking about them being buddies, later in the paragraph I'm talking about Asty potentially being scum on an individual basis.

You're not reading my posts. You're not legitimately trying to sort me, and I know that you are

not

this bad as town.

VOTE: GuiltyLion

I plan to get to this game later tonight but I wasn't going to let that bs slide. That right there? THAT is actual misrep.

a) So what have you sorted her as now? Scum? Town?

b) Originally your case was that you thought GM was softballing her buddy by ignoring his scummy RVS post. Now you're saying Asty had no scum motivation for his post. Why is GM still scum?

c) You're clearly NOT talking about them being buddies. You said "I can't see scum motivation for Asty to buddy GM in their first post". That implies scum!Asty and town!GM.

also how do you know I'm "not this bad as town"? Explain exactly what you mean by that

and I would still like answers to all of these questions, btw

A) Decided the whole thing was null. Her answers were reasonable enough that I could buy them, but she didn't exactly towntell to me during that exchange, excepting the fact that she went for a reachout rather than tunneling me, which I feel I see come from town more often than not. There's just other things about her that don't exactly make me comfortable, but aren't necessarily scummy. In any case I don't think it's worth pursuing this day phase.

B) Did I not address that? GM could have still been scum trying to make it look like Asty was her buddy since he was buddying her. It was a weak read early in the game - what else do you want from me there? :/ FTR I was originally going to ream you for the question being leading, especially after you asked me for my read on GM, but then I realized you were talking like in context of me looking at their motivations (good practice according to the wiki when I started was to see what town motivation could be had for a post, and what scum motivation could be had for it - when GM's post pinged me I did that and couldn't see the town motivation so I gunned for the early pressure there. When I reread Asty's post after GM answered all my issues back to being null, I realized that from Asty's posting it was a stupid associative anyway).

C) Think I answered that somewhere above? Like in the huge paragraph above this quote, so I'll redirect to there since I'm already repeating myself. Which is why I didn't really want to bother answering this because I feel like I'm just repeating myself. This is a semantics argument at best, fmpov. Hope that helped you at least, since I'm thinking you're more likely to be town with your recent posting.

Okay everyone, ironstove clearly isn't interested in helping to contribute to this game. He's either scum who needs rope or

reluctant town who needs vote pressure to convince him to participate

. Either way, we should all vote him.

VOTE: ironstove

also this feels to me a lot like jumping off of one mislynch and onto another

there's no need for "vote pressure" at this stage of D1, we have 500+ posts already and ~3 days until deadline

I don't think ironstove would have been in any danger of being mislynched even through policy, if I'm being honest. I don't find policy lynches to be all that common in newbie games. I agree it's too late to vote pressure, and is kinda out of character for Accountant, though, which is why I liked this. That, plus your willingness to re-evaluate reads.

You didn't ask me to look at DDD's first post again? Why is important to know what iron thinks of it but not me?

I want first impressions, not re-reads.

You already read that and did not mention it at the time, I'm factoring that in as evidence that town_DDD might have had for claiming I was misrepping him.

Why, do you now think it's a weird post?

If most of the new players don't mention it or agree with him it's more likely that's a genuine perspective he's had all game, if instead that's not the case (which iron signaled before when he said he would lynch him) he is more likely to be scum among the three stoogies.

iirc it was the post where you then called a DDD/GL scumteam? I was more focused on the sheeping of GL and agreeing with you because omgus. I remember thinking at the time that it'd be unlikely for both scum to gun for me at the same time and so close together, which made your response weird and more likely indicative of buddying to me at the time. But then you said it was a reaction test so ehh.

So far I could go for DDD purely because I don't have a read on GM that is any level of strong or confident in either direction; I townread copper, GL, drealmer slot. oncilla was iffy and DDD hasn't done anything to make me think the slot could be town. I have my doubts about Accountant too though. One second I feel they could be town but the next they do something weird like the pressure vote thing and I question it. Sooo I kinda line up with ironstove in scumreads here. Which makes him most likely town.

I'd almost prefer Accountant over DDD because I think if DDD is town then Accountant is whiteknighting. I can't see what Accountant likes about the slot.

[copper223]

No Jae, the first post that DDD makes and then his reply when I accuse him of selecting posts that don't match the reads that he gives at the end.

I am having the same thoughts about Accountant here.

[ironstove]

@ironstove: Please stop being useless.

Will you keep saying I'm useless when DDD flips mafia? In truth I'm the only one nautical guide whom you can trust to navigate you through these rough mafia pirate seas and lead you back to the safety of your homes. Come and follow me if you want to see town win this, otherwise walk the plank with your mafia compadres and serve as shark bait.

[Dragonfire]

You know this DDD wagon we have going

It's terrible, please don't do it

Tell us why we shouldn't vote him then.

You know this DDD wagon we have going

It's terrible, please don't do it

With 2 people on-board, this is a very small wagon.

He's at L-2 right now. I wouldn't call that a "very small" wagon.

Fuck, I hate to do this but GM, I know we didn't play together much but could you please tell these space cadets that my first post isn't weird. What horrifying reality have I entered where levity and brevity are sins.

I mean, tbf, I scumread you back when I was a Newb.

It's not framed weirdly, if that's the issue.

I was kind of ignoring that whole thing because I thought it was silly, can someone give me a quick summary?

Read DDD's first "catch-up" post and then his replies to copper after that. He basically quoted a lot of posts and then gave seemingly random reads at the conclusion of his post (for instance he said he townread drealmerz solely based off drealmerz's joke "Banana Split" post). I could see it being a joke, but he maintains that he was being serious. See copper's below post:

No Jae, the first post that DDD makes and then his reply when I accuse him of selecting posts that don't match the reads that he gives at the end.

I am having the same thoughts about Accountant here.

[Accountant]

eli5 why is ddd scum? If it's weird reads or bad reads, people have explained why his reads are weird/scummy but NOT why that weirdness or wrongness

stems from a scum perspective

.

People claim that him reading Drealmerz as town because of the banana post is crazy. But I don't see the scum motivation in it. I'm picturing DDD sitting at his desktop with a malevolent grin and a goatee with lightning flashing above him. And he goes, "mwahaha! i have completely bamboozled these town fools. And now, I will townread drealmerz for his banana post, and then ______, and then scum will reign supreme!"

And I think that _____ is a huge-ass gap and I'm not convinced DDD is scum unless someone can fill that blank in for me.

[Accountant]

@JaeReed:

I'd almost prefer Accountant over DDD because I think if DDD is town then Accountant is whiteknighting.

From your signature:

"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux

You know damn well why town WK other town. Why are you pretending that WKing is something only scum does?

[copper223]

People claim that him reading Drealmerz as town because of the banana post is crazy. But I don't see the scum motivation in it. I'm picturing DDD sitting at his desktop with a malevolent grin and a goatee with lightning flashing above him. And he goes, "mwahaha! i have completely bamboozled these town fools. And now, I will townread drealmerz for his banana post, and then ______, and then scum will reign supreme!"

Picture scum_DDD coming into the game, he has just moved from Chicago where he made a killing and is new to Banana, "right so I have to make some shit up", he thinks to himself while stroking his white cat, sitting in his leather chair at the top of DDD tower, but he is not really that invested in this game yet, so he quickly skims through and writes what he believes to be a plausible and humorous enough sounding post that covers the part of the game he missed and ends with him sheeping the latest hot wagon.

You have argued that you don't see DDD's scum motivation for that post, that's very far from town-reading him, why is he town worth wk-ing?

[Accountant]

I just don't buy that DDD decided to stoke shit up by doing the banana thing. He could have townread drealmerz for any other number of reasonds, even piggybacking off my post explaining why I stopped sring drealmerz. Mafia who wants to write a plausible post doesn't go off about how banana split analysis makes someone town. Mafia who are not invested in the game doesn't make a big post detailing their reactions to stuff and making cases.

He's town worth wking because there can only be two mafia and the list of people scummier than him is fat enough I'm pretty sure both mafia are in there.

[copper223]

That is ridiculous, you are claiming you are hard defending a PoE read at the end of D1.

I have never seen a PoE WK because if that's all you've got on someone you don't have the motivation to defend

them in particular

.

At most I'd say I strongly prefer other lynches and argue with the rest of town for those lynches to happen instead of DDD's, but you're trying to dismantle his wagon specifically.

I call BS on that.

VOTE: Accountant

[Accountant]

I'd WK Jae if you guys were wagoning him too. Stop playing like iron and voting me because you don't like the way I play. I WK anyone I think is town, and DDD is town by PoE.

[Dragonfire]

eli5 why is ddd scum? If it's weird reads or bad reads, people have explained why his reads are weird/scummy but NOT why that weirdness or wrongness

stems from a scum perspective

.

People claim that him reading Drealmerz as town because of the banana post is crazy. But I don't see the scum motivation in it. I'm picturing DDD sitting at his desktop with a malevolent grin and a goatee with lightning flashing above him. And he goes, "mwahaha! i have completely bamboozled these town fools. And now, I will townread drealmerz for his banana post, and then ______, and then scum will reign supreme!"

And I think that _____ is a huge-ass gap and I'm not convinced DDD is scum unless someone can fill that blank in for me.

Surely it could just be that he made his reads independent of the "joke" quotes he made, and then when questioned about his fabricated reads, he panicked and said he had explained it all in that post, and then dug himself into a hole doing so. Although I wouldn't expect an experienced player to do this, it is definitely possible.

[Accountant]

It's not like DDD is obliged to immediately respond when someone calls him out. If he was scum he could have mulled and made up something truly plausible and take his own sweet time.

[Dragonfire]

I just don't buy that DDD decided to stoke shit up by doing the banana thing. He could have townread drealmerz for any other number of reasonds, even piggybacking off my post explaining why I stopped sring drealmerz. Mafia who wants to write a plausible post doesn't go off about how banana split analysis makes someone town. Mafia who are not invested in the game doesn't make a big post detailing their reactions to stuff and making cases.

He's town worth wking because there can only be two mafia and the list of people scummier than him is fat enough I'm pretty sure both mafia are in there.

"Fat enough"? So far you've only expressed suspicion of copper, iron and me (I think?). That's hardly enough to guarantee both mafia are in there IMO. Are you that certain of your scumreading ability that you're willing to hard-defend an unknown based on PoE? This seems unlikely to me.

[Dragonfire]

It's not like DDD is obliged to immediately respond when someone calls him out. If he was scum he could have mulled and made up something truly plausible and take his own sweet time.

Let's turn this around; if he was town, what motivation would he have for townreading people based on jokes, and then attacking people when they said it was rather weird? To me that reads like scum trying to cover up for their mistake.

[copper223]

I WK

anyone

I think is town, and DDD is town by PoE.

I very much doubt this statement, ISO dive tonight.

[Accountant]

I just don't buy that DDD decided to stoke shit up by doing the banana thing. He could have townread drealmerz for any other number of reasonds, even piggybacking off my post explaining why I stopped sring drealmerz. Mafia who wants to write a plausible post doesn't go off about how banana split analysis makes someone town. Mafia who are not invested in the game doesn't make a big post detailing their reactions to stuff and making cases.

He's town worth wking because there can only be two mafia and the list of people scummier than him is fat enough I'm pretty sure both mafia are in there.

"Fat enough"? So far you've only expressed suspicion of copper, iron and me (I think?). That's hardly enough to guarantee both mafia are in there IMO. Are you that certain of your scumreading ability that you're willing to hard-defend an unknown based on PoE? This seems unlikely to me.

People who are scummier than DDD:

GM, dragon, copper, iron, drealmerz(close but slightly scummier)

It's absolutely batshit insane to lynch DDD while all five of these people still breathe oxygen

[JaeReed]

Accountant, run me through with handy post links why DDD is town? I'll get back to this in the morning when I'm not so drunk. I think you should remove drealmer and iron from your list. I can understand dragon bc it seems like a lot of hedging (639 for an example, copper brought up an issue as well wrt to lots of analysis but then no read following). Why is GM scummier? Did I miss something or do you disbelieve her responses to me nullifying shit?

[Accountant]

she's softballing iron for no conceivable reason

[ironstove]

Accountant seems to have a lot of infermation that the rest of us slack-jawed yokels in order to be this certin that DDD is town.

Ain't that a goof! Hyuck hyuck hyuck!!!

[ironstove]

Accountant seems to have a lot of infermation that the rest of us slack-jawed yokels in order to be this certin that DDD is town.

Ain't that a goof! Hyuck hyuck hyuck!!!

[ironstove]

It's not like DDD is obliged to immediately respond when someone calls him out.

If he was scum he could have mulled and made up something truly plausible and take his own sweet time.

Says the man who tried to rope an innocent pilgrim for not bowing before the crown whilst in Plymouth Rock! Tie this filthy loyalist to the trees and let him starve. His bone structure will reveal that he was of the devil once the birds have pecked away at the flesh.