Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)


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Post Post #725 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:55 am

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 717, goodmorning wrote:If you had no idea what I meant, surely the appropriate response would have been to ask me?

Okay then, what did you mean?
So why are you suspicious of me "not following through" on things when I actually have, and with the people that they concern. Do you want me to duplicate my answer just for you? Or are you just not reading what I post?
It's not just those two posts; I feel like you've been ignoring me more generally as well (I'm mentioned 19 times in your ISO; Accountant 65 times [that's over 3x more mentions though he only has a little over 2x more posts than me]; Jae has 51 mentions [which is more than their number of posts]; Lion has
72
), and then when I made the effort to try and engage you (or anyone else pushing DDD) you said "go read that post" and didn't follow up afterwards. Your vote is on the wagon but you don't care enough about it to actually elabourate on your position to someone not on the wagon who asks?
[/quote]
The reason you're not mentioned as much in my ISO is that I can't seem to read you, unlike others who I can read more easily.
In post 722, JaeReed wrote:
In post 701, copper223 wrote:Jae/GL/Iron
I'd rather do Accountant than DDD.
I've gone through DDD's ISO and I'm not willing to vote there anymore.
Why? Give me a good reason because I'm not seeing it.
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Post Post #726 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:35 pm

Post by goodmorning »

Obviously you know now what I meant since Accountant took like 3 posts to finally explain it to you.

Then surely I should be mentioned MORE? If you find me hard to read, why aren't you actively trying to sort me? Where are the questions? Why spend so much time circlejerking with people you strongly townread and ignoring people you have yet to sort? I DON'T GET IT.

And RE: the last thing: THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE ACCUSER.

(But also, I have a good reason for you, whether Jae deigns to answer you or not. I don't think ScumDDD is dumb enough to ask me for help ().)
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Post Post #727 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:39 pm

Post by Accountant »

In post 724, copper223 wrote:Because it shows how out of wack his read progression on you is, and if you follow through with what that implies about his other justifications his castle of cards falls apart.
someone moved a slot from town to null after 200 posts

confirmed scum ggwp
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Post Post #728 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:20 pm

Post by copper223 »

"I think DDD is town, to the point I am willing to hijack his wagon, because I have this scum-pool and I am sure scum has to be in it."

"But hey, I also have other players I didn't sort that could be scum outside of that pool."

Rrrrright, I have a piece of land I'd be happy to sell you, it's a premium property located at the border between Ukraine and Belarus, it's immersed in the green and wildlife of northern Kiev's hills, there are no traffic problems to speak of and you have access to all kind of facilities close to you...

The name of the area you ask? Why I think you've never heard of it, it used to be a town called Chernobyl.
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Post Post #729 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:32 pm

Post by JaeReed »

RE: Accountant's read on me & the quotes. It's something I wanted noted for me to look back at because I am going through their ISO for our mini normal together. I don't remember them making those kinds of jerky jumps in read changes as scum, which is something I wanted to double check. (drunk addition after I wrote all this: still haven't checked the meta shit soz)

Scum motivation: Appeasement over the whole townread issue, positioning to vote me later, checking to see if I'm mislynchable.
Town motivation: Paranoia after I dropped off(?)... I can't think of much more that would change a read like that completely from town to unreadable.

Copper's fight with DDD dragged on too long, and I feel like that was mostly copper's fault. I think copper was barking up the wrong fucking thing anyway and dragging on something that DDD already answered sufficiently. I can certainly see why ppl are scumreading copper for it but I'll be honest here I just can't read copper reliably til D3.
The more pertinent issue to me is that DDD came across as sheeping GL without trying to appear like he was sheeping him. As far as the whole reasoning for it... Like, I'm obviously not going to assume incompetence from GM. She's the IC, so she's expected to have some level of competence, for one. I was expecting her to take more of a town leader role and show the newbies how to get out of RVS proper, but she didn't. Now that I've seen more of her play I can probably boil that down to a personality tell rather than anything alignment indicative, but I didn't have as much exposure to her before that point. She did also talk herself up as having a lot of experience. + the whole early push blah blah blah argument that I have brought up many times so that's already been addressed. Anyway, that's why I'm partial to a DDD lynch, but I don't think I'll be voting there unless it's a deadline rush.
Like, the only thing from him that could be construed as scummy is that vote on me imo because of the timing & shitty reasonings, but I know I'm town and the rest of you don't, so it's not really a reason for anyone else to scumread him? In that situation I generally like to go with the benefit of the doubt since it's likely omgus (judging off GL, GM, and DDD all scumreading me at that time) + he hasn't played with me previously to compare tone.
That was a lot to say I don't see why ppl should be voting DDD but anyways, moving on.

It was GM that first mentioned Amished here wasn't it? With "inb4 amished" or some similar phrasing? What was the intent behind that, can you elaborate? I know the tell, but I want to know why in particular you brought it up rather than ignoring the comment regarding previous slot occupants.
Also, @ GM
goodmorning wrote: (But also, I have a good reason for you, whether Jae deigns to answer you or not. I don't think ScumDDD is dumb enough to ask me for help ().)
Not a good enough reason to townread someone. It's dumb as either alignment imo. But I think a scum!DDD could come up with better reasons to townread drealmer than the joke post (and I'm guilty of townreading ppl off early joking as well) especially since drealmer did have other content to be read off by that stage. Which means I'm siding with Accountant on this one.
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Post Post #730 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:47 pm

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 726, goodmorning wrote:Obviously you know now what I meant since Accountant took like 3 posts to finally explain it to you.

Then surely I should be mentioned MORE? If you find me hard to read, why aren't you actively trying to sort me? Where are the questions? Why spend so much time circlejerking with people you strongly townread and ignoring people you have yet to sort? I DON'T GET IT.
It's not that you haven't already answered literally everything there is to answer. I actually find myself unable to sort you, and I don't think there is anything else I can ask you. I always find it hard to read the IC though.
(But also, I have a good reason for you, whether Jae deigns to answer you or not. I don't think ScumDDD is dumb enough to ask me for help ().)
I agree with Jae on this one, it's not that good a reason actually. I doubt it's alignment indicative. Either way he just wants you on his side.
In post 729, JaeReed wrote: Anyway, that's why I'm partial to a DDD lynch, but I don't think I'll be voting there unless it's a deadline rush.
Didn't you literally just say this:
JaeReed wrote:
In post 701, copper223 wrote:Jae/GL/Iron
I'd rather do Accountant than DDD.
I've gone through DDD's ISO and I'm not willing to vote there anymore.
Quite contradictory if you ask me.
Not a good enough reason to townread someone. It's dumb as either alignment imo. But I think a scum!DDD could come up with better reasons to townread drealmer than the joke post (and I'm guilty of townreading ppl off early joking as well) especially since drealmer did have other content to be read off by that stage. Which means I'm siding with Accountant on this one.
To be honest, I can't really see him townreading drealmerz off the joke post alone as either scum or town. Scum, as you say, probably would have come up with better reasons, but town would have looked deeper into his posts and not just townread him off one post alone.
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Post Post #731 (ISO) » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:56 pm

Post by copper223 »

What is this crap Jae?

"The fight" dragged on because DDD's position today has been, copper you've attacked me as soon as I replaced and I believe you did so maliciously and made up a reaction test to cover-up for it, so fuck you I am not answering anything you ask and I want you lynched. He has not moved one iota from this position, how is that me dragging the fight on for too long exactly?

The first to mention the amished tell was DDD, not GM.
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Post Post #732 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:08 am

Post by JaeReed »

In post 730, Dragonfire wrote:
In post 729, JaeReed wrote: Anyway, that's why I'm partial to a DDD lynch, but I don't think I'll be voting there unless it's a deadline rush.
Didn't you literally just say this:
JaeReed wrote:
In post 701, copper223 wrote:Jae/GL/Iron
I'd rather do Accountant than DDD.
I've gone through DDD's ISO and I'm not willing to vote there anymore.
Quite contradictory if you ask me.
How? Not willing to vote DDD unless we are looking at a no lynch is the same as not willing to vote DDD if you ask me. I'm not going to have a no lynch D1, but I'm not going to vote DDD unless we're facing a no lynch for it. It's not contradictory, it's common sense. You can't agree with me then say I'm contradictory in the same breath, yo.
In post 730, Dragonfire wrote:
Not a good enough reason to townread someone. It's dumb as either alignment imo. But I think a scum!DDD could come up with better reasons to townread drealmer than the joke post (and I'm guilty of townreading ppl off early joking as well) especially since drealmer did have other content to be read off by that stage. Which means I'm siding with Accountant on this one.
To be honest, I can't really see him townreading drealmerz off the joke post alone as either scum or town. Scum, as you say, probably would have come up with better reasons, but town would have looked deeper into his posts and not just townread him off one post alone.
I can see him townreading off that as town because I've done it before. It's a tone reading angle. Newbscum tend to be stiffer when they try to make jokes and worry a lot about what they're saying. The joke came across as overdone to me, which gives a stiffness, so I disregarded it while reading the dude, but I can definitely see why someone else would townread joking. It shows a relaxed manner. I stopped thinking of it as AI the moment I knew drealmer wasn't a complete newb to mafia, but that's not to say other ppl aren't gonna read him that way.

What's the scum motivation for him townreading drealmerz off that post?
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Post Post #733 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:10 am

Post by copper223 »

The expound on the above, since direct talks were useless and DDD claimed I was maliciously misrepping him I asked the rest of you how you viewed the incident to try and figure out how likely it is that DDD genuinely believes that's what's happened and some of you (Dragon, Ironstove and partially GL) replied that you also don't like that post or his follow ups or DDD's posting in general (which made me doubt his position more), before you said you'd changed your mind I'd already moved on to Accountant (because at least DDD is consistent in the way he claims he is viewing the game).
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Post Post #734 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:54 am

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 731, copper223 wrote:What is this crap Jae?

"The fight" dragged on because DDD's position today has been, copper you've attacked me as soon as I replaced and I believe you did so maliciously and made up a reaction test to cover-up for it, so fuck you I am not answering anything you ask and I want you lynched. He has not moved one iota from this position, how is that me dragging the fight on for too long exactly?

The first to mention the amished tell was DDD, not GM.
No, it was GM, she said "inb4 amished" before DDD mentioned it.
In post 732, JaeReed wrote:How? Not willing to vote DDD unless we are looking at a no lynch is the same as not willing to vote DDD if you ask me. I'm not going to have a no lynch D1, but I'm not going to vote DDD unless we're facing a no lynch for it. It's not contradictory, it's common sense. You can't agree with me then say I'm contradictory in the same breath, yo.
Okay, that makes more sense. I thought you were saying "I'm prepared to vote him, period." in your second post. Seems I misread it.
I can see him townreading off that as town because I've done it before. It's a tone reading angle. Newbscum tend to be stiffer when they try to make jokes and worry a lot about what they're saying. The joke came across as overdone to me, which gives a stiffness, so I disregarded it while reading the dude, but I can definitely see why someone else would townread joking. It shows a relaxed manner. I stopped thinking of it as AI the moment I knew drealmer wasn't a complete newb to mafia, but that's not to say other ppl aren't gonna read him that way.

What's the scum motivation for him townreading drealmerz off that post?
Exactly, I found it quite overdone as well, which is why I found it odd that DDD seemed to strongly townread something which I found NAI. I don't see a particular scum motivation for townreading him based on that post, but neither do I see a particular town motivation. FYI, the post and his response is not why I think DDD might be scum.
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Post Post #735 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:00 am

Post by copper223 »

In post 734, Dragonfire wrote:No, it was GM, she said "inb4 amished" before DDD mentioned it.
You're right, must have been tired when I wrote that one down under DDD, it also makes sense now why GM tells me later she clearly knows the tell as she called it out by name.
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Post Post #736 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:16 am

Post by Accountant »

get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copperget copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

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Post Post #737 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:23 am

Post by JaeReed »

In post 736, Accountant wrote:get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copperget copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper
<3 thanks for the memories b4 bed.
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Post Post #738 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:51 am

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 735, copper223 wrote:
In post 734, Dragonfire wrote:No, it was GM, she said "inb4 amished" before DDD mentioned it.
You're right, must have been tired when I wrote that one down under DDD, it also makes sense now why GM tells me later she clearly knows the tell as she called it out by name.
Yeah, if I'm remembering correctly DDD scumread me for the so-called "amished tell" and GM mentioned it but didn't scumread me for it.
In post 736, Accountant wrote:get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper get copper
Always nice to get my daily dose of spam.
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Post Post #739 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:54 am

Post by Accountant »

I don't think further discussion at this point is constructive. The lines in the sand have been drawn, everyone's hammered out their positions. Let's just lynch copper and win.
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

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Post Post #740 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:03 am

Post by goodmorning »

In post 729, JaeReed wrote:It was GM that first mentioned Amished here wasn't it? With "inb4 amished" or some similar phrasing? What was the intent behind that, can you elaborate? I know the tell, but I want to know why in particular you brought it up rather than ignoring the comment regarding previous slot occupants.
Because I figured someone would probably bring it up and I think it's funny.
Also, @ GM
goodmorning wrote:(But also, I have a good reason for you, whether Jae deigns to answer you or not. I don't think ScumDDD is dumb enough to ask me for help ().)
Not a good enough reason to townread someone. It's dumb as either alignment imo. But I think a scum!DDD could come up with better reasons to townread drealmer than the joke post (and I'm guilty of townreading ppl off early joking as well) especially since drealmer did have other content to be read off by that stage. Which means I'm siding with Accountant on this one.
DDD quite possibly knows me well enough (and even if he doesn't it's already been discussed in this game) to know how paranoid I sometimes get about buddying. Also, given that anyone likely to listen to me would NOT be on the list of people who were/are scumreading him, the potential reward would be far less than the risk.

@Dragon: There's always something you can ask.

Also I don't know why you keep dodging the fact that you're on the DDD wagon and yet seem totally unwilling to actually push the damn thing.
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Post Post #741 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:16 am

Post by ironstove »

Also I don't know why you keep dodging the fact that you're on the DDD wagon and yet seem totally unwilling to actually push the damn thing.
I'm pushing the DDD wagon as hard as I can but it won't move. Can you all please lend me a hand?
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Post Post #742 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:28 am

Post by goodmorning »

If you're unwilling to explain I don't see why you think anyone's going to hop on board.
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Post Post #743 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:57 am

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 739, Accountant wrote:I don't think further discussion at this point is constructive. The lines in the sand have been drawn, everyone's hammered out their positions. Let's just lynch copper and win.
Even if copper is scum, lynching him won't be an automatic win. We'd still have to find his buddy. So I find your attitude rather worrying, as you're going to stake your own life on someone else's (if you're town).
In post 740, goodmorning wrote: @Dragon: There's always something you can ask.

Also I don't know why you keep dodging the fact that you're on the DDD wagon and yet seem totally unwilling to actually push the damn thing.
I'm voting DDD because I find him the scummiest out of everyone. Some time when I have more time, I'll compile some of his and oncilla's posts, and arguments others have made, to make a sort-of case on him. How do I keep dodging it? We all know I'm voting him.
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Post Post #744 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:23 am

Post by goodmorning »

You're dodging the fact that you seem unwilling to push the wagon.
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Post Post #745 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:54 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 729, JaeReed wrote:I think copper was barking up the wrong fucking thing anyway and dragging on something that DDD already answered sufficiently. I can certainly see why ppl are scumreading copper for it but I'll be honest here I just can't read copper reliably til D3.

The more pertinent issue to me is that DDD came across as sheeping GL without trying to appear like he was sheeping him.
Slightly unfair question, but you can't seriously plan on giving copper a pass till D3 every time you play with him just because you can't reliably read him till then, right? If you can see why others find him scummy and certainly find him in the wrong and you seem to lack strong direction isn't that time to make a move on that if there ever is one?

And I wouldn't say I sheeped GL, I certainly found his initial posts solid (and you'll obviously disagree but whatever) but my initial vote was PoEd to whoever had legit votes. If copper or asty had two real votes on them at that point I would've voted for them to try and get some pressure going, I realize the second vote on someone isn't much pressure but it's better than one vote on someone. But as soon as copper started his shitty "reaction test" you'll note I moved my vote because he pushed himself into the lead for scum.
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Post Post #746 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:59 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 744, goodmorning wrote:You're dodging the fact that you seem unwilling to push the wagon.
That's because I've taken apart every argument they've actually brought up; you can see how desperate he is to get traction because he plans to bring up things oncilla said (probably because oncilla isn't here to defend their arguments any more).
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Post Post #747 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:31 pm

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 744, goodmorning wrote:You're dodging the fact that you seem unwilling to push the wagon.
I'm not exactly going to get anywhere with it, am I? Half of the player base seems to have DDD as lock town so what point is there?
In post 746, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 744, goodmorning wrote:You're dodging the fact that you seem unwilling to push the wagon.
That's because I've taken apart every argument they've actually brought up; you can see how desperate he is to get traction because he plans to bring up things oncilla said (probably because oncilla isn't here to defend their arguments any more).
Do you think I'd make a case solely based on what oncilla said? The only post I plan to bring up from oncilla is the one in which he selectively responds to things rather than just replying to everything, which I believe copper called him out on.
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Post Post #748 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:36 pm

Post by Accountant »

Jae, who is scum?
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #749 (ISO) » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:47 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 740, goodmorning wrote:
In post 729, JaeReed wrote:It was GM that first mentioned Amished here wasn't it? With "inb4 amished" or some similar phrasing? What was the intent behind that, can you elaborate? I know the tell, but I want to know why in particular you brought it up rather than ignoring the comment regarding previous slot occupants.
Because I figured someone would probably bring it up and I think it's funny.
Yeah okay. Reason I had to ask was that hiplop as scum IC in Trees pulled the tell on Charloux to try to get him lynched. If you wanted attention drawn to it for something like "wanted it noted for later" or so then we would have had issues.
Also, @ GM
goodmorning wrote:(But also, I have a good reason for you, whether Jae deigns to answer you or not. I don't think ScumDDD is dumb enough to ask me for help ().)
Not a good enough reason to townread someone. It's dumb as either alignment imo. But I think a scum!DDD could come up with better reasons to townread drealmer than the joke post (and I'm guilty of townreading ppl off early joking as well) especially since drealmer did have other content to be read off by that stage. Which means I'm siding with Accountant on this one.
DDD quite possibly knows me well enough (and even if he doesn't it's already been discussed in this game) to know how paranoid I sometimes get about buddying. Also, given that anyone likely to listen to me would NOT be on the list of people who were/are scumreading him, the potential reward would be far less than the risk.
Eh, yeah ok, but I don't think it helps him as either alignment. So as I said, it's not really a town tell so much as a "wtf you been smoking?" thing :P There's an argument for being more self conscious than that as scum I guess. I just think it's nonsensical as either alignment and I generally expect Appeal to Authority more from fresh newbs so ???
In post 743, Dragonfire wrote:
In post 739, Accountant wrote:I don't think further discussion at this point is constructive. The lines in the sand have been drawn, everyone's hammered out their positions. Let's just lynch copper and win.
Even if copper is scum, lynching him won't be an automatic win. We'd still have to find his buddy. So I find your attitude rather worrying, as you're going to stake your own life on someone else's (if you're town).
In post 740, goodmorning wrote: @Dragon: There's always something you can ask.

Also I don't know why you keep dodging the fact that you're on the DDD wagon and yet seem totally unwilling to actually push the damn thing.
I'm voting DDD because I find him the scummiest out of everyone. Some time when I have more time, I'll compile some of his and oncilla's posts, and arguments others have made, to make a sort-of case on him. How do I keep dodging it? We all know I'm voting him.
Would also like this case ftr. Asking about copper's buddy is a decent question, but that's not quite what you did so I guess I gotta
@Accountant you seem certain copper's scum. Who are your candidates for his partner? That's the main thing I am not seeing here that seems to just be getting glossed over with "copper is scummy".
In post 745, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 729, JaeReed wrote:I think copper was barking up the wrong fucking thing anyway and dragging on something that DDD already answered sufficiently. I can certainly see why ppl are scumreading copper for it but I'll be honest here I just can't read copper reliably til D3.

The more pertinent issue to me is that DDD came across as sheeping GL without trying to appear like he was sheeping him.
Slightly unfair question, but you can't seriously plan on giving copper a pass till D3 every time you play with him just because you can't reliably read him till then, right? If you can see why others find him scummy and certainly find him in the wrong and you seem to lack strong direction isn't that time to make a move on that if there ever is one?

And I wouldn't say I sheeped GL, I certainly found his initial posts solid (and you'll obviously disagree but whatever) but my initial vote was PoEd to whoever had legit votes. If copper or asty had two real votes on them at that point I would've voted for them to try and get some pressure going, I realize the second vote on someone isn't much pressure but it's better than one vote on someone. But as soon as copper started his shitty "reaction test" you'll note I moved my vote because he pushed himself into the lead for scum.
^ Good answer. As to your question, if I can't get a solid read on him yeah that's how I'm gonna read him. It's not like I'm not trying to still read him, but more if I can't get something solid then my sure method of reading him D3 is a good fallback. I can see why others find him scummy and think he's in the wrong based off only ISOing you. So everything is coloured by what you chose to respond to and quote from him. Realistically, I should be ISOing him and trying to sort that but he's got like 200 posts so I really only want to do that if he flips town since it is going to be my own version of torture.

Never said I lack strong direction btw.
"Jae defends his townreads like a fanatic" - Charloux
"On the issue of myself they go back and forth between overpowering paranoia and absolute certainty I'm town... it's kind of exhausting." - Nahdia
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