I think this quote of copper's sums up the bad feeling I got from oncilla's posts. Fun fact: I PM'd GiF to ask to replace in when oncilla and Kuroshira were being replaced (obviously I didn't get either slot). I did a quick ISO of oncilla to see what he'd posted so far, and after reading it I was pretty sure that I was going to replace into a scum-slot. It's not what oncilla did, it's more what he didn't do: his attitude was more as if he was looking for scapegoats than someone who was actively trying to find scum. Here's the quote from copper:
In post 155, copper223 wrote:Anyway going back to my oncilla suspicions, I was thinking about why my gut wasn't happy with his posting (because on the surface he seems to be scum-hunting well) and I remember a good read serrapaladin gave in a game; most (newbie) town players will go through the thread linearly, they see something, comment about it, move on to the next thing that happened, read it, give their opinion etc... but oncilla seems to be selectively picking out some of the points of contention in the thread and always finding a reason for why that's potentially scummy, I think that could point at a different motive compared to trying to game-solve.
When I first replaced in, I said I agreed with this and I still do.
Now onto DDD and his first post. I have no particular problem with the levity, brevity and quick catch-up style of his post, just a few things. First, drealmerz's joke, which I know has already been done to death. My issue is that he didn't explain it right away, only when he was under pressure with three votes on him, at L-2. I just don't see this kind of behaviour coming from a townie who assumes everyone understands his townread on drealmerz. Personally I try and explain my reads, and if asked I will explain further. But to everyone except DDD, that joke looked NAI, so I can't understand why he assumed we would understand it instantly. Most people probably thought DDD was joking himself when he said that. Anyway, enough of that.
Although DDD has explained this partially already, I still find it scummy that he votes Jae (out of his "good votes" list) solely because Jae already has a vote on him. I don't see why he'd do this. It's almost as if he didn't want to vote someone who currently had no votes on them. I understand his given reason was "pressure", but at that point a vote and an explained scumread on either copper or Asty/me would qualify as pressure as well. It just seems too opportunistic to me.
This is quite blatant OMGUS, and deserves to be treated as so. DDD completely abandons his "pressure" vote on Jae for no apparent reason and votes for copper. Even if I didn't know it was a reaction test, I would find copper's post weird rather than outright scummy, and I would have asked him to explain his scumread instead of a straight-up vote. And now begins the DDD-copper war.
In post 212, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: In post 210, copper223 wrote:Other points of contention are town-reading Drealmer for
104 (or omitting the reason for why he is town-reading him but mentioning
104), town-reading GM again without much substance and ending up with a scum-read on Jae when his last point admonishes what can only be town Jae not to assume malevolence when misunderstanding suffices.
So I'm scum because I didn't provide exact in-depth breakdowns of my thoughts on Dreal and GM? There's no possible town values for withholding partial information? If you're not detailing every exact read you have in complete detail then you're scum? Pretty sure that's an absurd standard and if you held everyone to it equally you'd have eight scum reads, nine if you decided to evaluate yourself.
I view this as a misrep of what copper was saying there. He wasn't calling DDD out for levity and brevity, he was calling him out for trying to justify his read on drealmerz based on his joke post. Again, a townie would have clarified that that was why he were townreading drealmerz, and would have explained it. But DDD just twisted his words and turned it into an accusation.
In post 238, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: In post 222, Accountant wrote: So I'm scum because I didn't provide exact in-depth breakdowns of my thoughts on Dreal and GM? There's no possible town values for withholding partial information? If you're not detailing every exact read you have in complete detail then you're scum? Pretty sure that's an absurd standard and if you held everyone to it equally you'd have eight scum reads, nine if you decided to evaluate yourself.
This is a misrep of what he is saying.
Disagree.
When Accountant called DDD out for the misrep, he just replied with a one-word answer instead of talking it out with him, as if he was trying to change the subject as quickly as possible.
In post 275, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
Did this one leak out or do we still keep it amongst ourselves in the cool kid club? I scratched my chin over that as well; it doesn't reach the level of critical assessment that I'd usually demand but when I think about it more there's not a good weird that you'd mention, it's almost certainly setting the table for exactly what the Amished tell was found to catch.
Ast was in my initial "good votes" list, I think this solidly locks Dragonfire in it. Scum-copper is still a better vote for now though.
Again, the Amished thing just looks opportunistic. While others, like GM, mentioned the Amished but didn't scumread me for it, you immediately jump on it. As if you didn't find Asty's posts weird too.
In post 388, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:See here's the fundamental issue, everyone else "got" my post other than you. It makes me really skeptical that it was so confusing for you to understand. And instead of asking questions, like I'd expect someone who was interested in the truth to do if they didn't understand something, you went on the attack.
One of the scummiest things I've seen from him. As I've mentioned before, DDD is calling him scum for being "the odd one out". Not everyone else "got" his post, and saying that is just arrogance. In fact, this is quite hypocritical as it was DDD who went on the attack rather than explaining his thought processes.
All of this is, of course, based on the assumption that copper's attack on DDD was a reaction test and that copper is town, both of which I am fairly sure of.
This is also scummy, as he is assuming that people should treat their scumreads as lock scum, and not even consider the possibility of them being town. Townies should always consider that they might be wrong, and the best way to ascertain that is to maintain discussion, instead of writing them off as scum.
In post 656, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Here's the issue, why are you just asking this question of me now? Both you and copper don't bother talking with me, don't bother asking specific questions; you label my post weird and/or scummy and that get further baffled when I attack that. If you were actually interested in the answer to this question, this wouldn't be the first time you brought it up.
As if it was the first time he brought it up. And he should have definitely explained his thought process earlier if he was town.
In post 665, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
No, you and copper apparently can't see it, I have no idea what iron does or does not see and no one else seems to think it's a strange position. But newb-scum have two possible routes they go, they either are lost about how to fake scum hunt and their biggest priority is failing into the background where no one notices them and they can let their partner do the heavy lifting or they chime in to promote a town/town fight, they do not crack jokes unrelated to anything else that would draw attention more attention to them. Or, they know how to fake scum hunt and they are very good and very thorough projecting the right image of industrious scumhunting, however, they almost always lack levity because they're focused on their act and thus don't tell unrelated jokes. A joke like that comes from someone who is very comfortable in their position and new scum almost never is.
I do like this explanation, but it does somehow feel as if he's just brought it up now that he's being accused. Unhelpfulness is not townie behaviour.
In post 696, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Don't forget the part where my initial post is scummy for not explaining everything in minute detail and then when it's explained logically suddenly I just made up those reasons despite the fact that I pretty clearly was willing to go to the mat for the post. So the argument is that as scum, I made up a bunch of nonsense, then instead of treating it as a joke defended that nonsense aggressively, and only later came up with exact reasons that match my initial post. For reasons, I really can't fathom what advantage I would gain from doing this but motivations don't matter in dragon-world. Oh wait, the reason is that Dragon doesn't want to break the wagon he's on despite it going from bad to shite.
Again, his response, as ever, is to call me scum because I'm voting him and misrep what I was saying. Already been through this.
In post 764, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
VOTE: dragon
I actually had moved him slightly ahead of copper lately on my preferred scum list but I didn't want to break what little momentum we had, big fan of this.
At least Accountant had the guts to say it was opportunistic. DDD's vote is even more so. And that justification is just awful, of course he'd say that. He must be feeling so pleased right now to finally be pushing a mislynch which nobody disagrees with.
There's an argument for being more self conscious than that as scum I guess. I just think it's nonsensical as either alignment and I generally expect Appeal to Authority more from fresh newbs so ???
