Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[mhsmith0]

Also

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

l-1 if i'm counting correctly
sorry transcend, rosske's tomorrow if he flips green at the very least

had you in fact manually counted the votes before voting the hammer? And do you have a history of occassionally messing up voting totals?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

l-1 if i'm counting correctly
sorry transcend, rosske's tomorrow if he flips green at the very least

had you in fact manually counted the votes before voting the hammer? And do you have a history of occassionally messing up voting totals?

I think so (don't really remember), and no, but knowing myself personally it's something I would do

that was my lolhammer right?

[mhsmith0]

yep, that was the lol hammer. it's a bit weird the way you phrased it, like you actually had counted as opposed to just relying on the mod's screwed up VC (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8223847 suggested it was 6 to lynch when it was really 5). I suppose it's possible you took that mod's post and counted from there though.

[tojam2]

VC 5 - 1

mhsmith0 L-2 - Transcend

(expired on 2016-09-15 08:00:00)

No new votes.

[Transcend]

heyoo

[Thor665]

I'm curious why you were making that point at the same time as pushing KTS to L-2. Was this just a general request for clarification that happened to make it onto your vote post, or were you thinking Tenshii was as strong a suspect as KTS?

If I thought he was an equally strong suspect there's a decent chance I would have voted him.
The fact that I'm asking for general clarification appears, on a wild guess, to be a request for general clarification (that was never taken up - thus fueling my stronger value call there).

Also, you'd expressed at one point that you thought the last wolf was on KTS. Do you think this is meaningfully town-indicative of Transcend, since he's the only living player who was never on KTS? Or do you think that making a late hop off the KTS wagon is town-indicative for Tenshii, since he'd been on KTS for a while (among others) before hopping off onto PC late in the day?

Why would you guess the former, which makes sense with my stated stance, and then theorize the latter, which doesn't, and ask me to clarify it for you?
This is a busywork question - why are you making it up to ask me? Frankly, the first one was fairly busy work also.

PS Can everyone link their most recent one or two town and most recent one or two wolf games? If you don't have any before this (IIRC giga suggested they never randed wolf before, i don't know if tenshii has any off-site experience), just let me know.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php?a ... &sr=topics

Given that you were pushing Tenshii again here, and were clearly suspicious of him, why did you make a L-1 vote on PC? Why not start a new wagon on Tenshii, or push harder for answers, or hesitate to cast a critical vote on PC? Or was PC such a strong read of yours that you were more just engaging with just the possibility that it wasn't PC?

PC was not a strong read.
PC was a valid 'let's remove the lurksack from the game' read made at the appropriate time to minimize damage to town from his embarrassing lack of play commitment to the other players.

[mhsmith0]

@thor: wrt PC, it's just weird that you'd made that l-1 vote on him while pushing tenshii (again), and then follow it up with

Sure - for starters, explain to me why town would choose not to vote their top scumread nowhere close to mylo or lylo.

I'll wait.

And the reason scum would do it is due to lack of actual belief in their claims, and also for strategic purposes if they think the move will get them called out.

So that was nowhere close to MYLO/LYLO, PC wasn't your top scum read, and your comment to tenshii suggested that this behavior was in your mind a scum tell. So I guess I want to know why you'd hop along on pc lynch instead of pushing for a force replace, especially given that you'd indicated a preference for a replace at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8225663. What changed between when you thought that he should be replaced and when you voted him?

[mhsmith0]

As far as the tenshii/transcend behavior wrt the kts wagon, it seems like transcend and tenshii are your current top two suspects, but you'd made a value call that the last wolf would would have been on kts (which transcend clearly wasn't, and tenshii eventually wasn't). Wrt transcend, I want to know how your scum read there compares to that stated value call; is the "a wolf would have votes kts" bit no longer valid? And wrt tenshii, I want to get your take on the hop off kts onto PC late day. If you think it's tenshii, then that was a strategic hop off. So what about that hop off seems strategic? Just that it happened? The nature and commentary of the hop off? You've suggested that d2 is important to your read, so I'd like you to clarify your thoughts wrt day two and the kts wagon.

[Transcend]

K i give in. I've pretended to know what wrt means. Someone enlighten me.

[mhsmith0]

With respect/regards to

[mhsmith0]

@transcend: From day two

You talked about giga's vote hopping here (I think), but you'd been bouncing around a lot yourself, and Tenshii had been pretty open to hopping onto various wagons by then (bandwagoning votes on Luna in 979, KTS in 1068, PC in 1137). Why did giga's willingness to lynch whoever grab your attention but Tenshii's didn't?

[Transcend]

Because he had formerly town read kts so the quick change captivated my attention.

[Transcend]

Hello

[mhsmith0]

Why would you guess the former, which makes sense with my stated stance, and then theorize the latter, which doesn't, and ask me to clarify it for you?
This is a busywork question - why are you making it up to ask me? Frankly, the first one was fairly busy work also.

How is it a busywork question? Your recently stated top two are transcend and tenshii, and you seem to be leaning transcend as the last wolf. This runs counter to your previously stated read that the last wolf was on kts,

I would put at near 100% that scum is within Giga, Wing, mhsmith, and Tenshii.

I can accept that maybe scum didn't bus Karnos, but the idea that scum didn't vote KTS seems highly unlikely.

So, what changed? You've had him as derpy town for a while, and then you stated that he somehow convinced you tenshii was town (so it was me or him), and then you went back and said it was transcend or tenshii. This means that either you changed your mind on the relevancy of this point, or something else was sufficiently important to change your mind on the read.

I see the point you make at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8303071
But I'm not sure how this really makes him go from bad town to an actual wolf.

I'll grant you that if he is the last wolf, then his victory path is probably to get me mislynched, and then probably hoping that tenshii votes the other surviving slot (presumably you in this case). But I don't see how you separate out this compared to him actually believing that I'm the last wolf.

It's a bit of a callback to yellow in our last game,nowhere she made a case on me that, while not a good case, was at least within the range of what I believed she could believe. So I guess I want to know where you see the insincerity with transcend; why does he not believe the case he's trying to sell? And why is the original read, of transcend clear because he wasn't on kts (and he also wasn't on PC for that matter) invalid?

[Transcend]

aha

[Thor665]

@thor: wrt PC, it's just weird that you'd made that l-1 vote on him while pushing tenshii (again), and then follow it up with

Sure - for starters, explain to me why town would choose not to vote their top scumread nowhere close to mylo or lylo.

I'll wait.

And the reason scum would do it is due to lack of actual belief in their claims, and also for strategic purposes if they think the move will get them called out.

So that was nowhere close to MYLO/LYLO, PC wasn't your top scum read, and your comment to tenshii suggested that this behavior was in your mind a scum tell. So I guess I want to know why you'd hop along on pc lynch instead of pushing for a force replace, especially given that you'd indicated a preference for a replace at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8225663. What changed between when you thought that he should be replaced and when you voted him?

Please explain who my larger scumread was, and then I'll pretend you have a point.

And I gave up on replace because the mod didn't do it - this isn't rocket science.

How is it a busywork question? Your recently stated top two are transcend and tenshii, and you seem to be leaning transcend as the last wolf. This runs counter to your previously stated read that the last wolf was on kts,

Am I actively sorting him?
Yes?
Okay then.

So I guess I want to know where you see the insincerity with transcend; why does he not believe the case he's trying to sell? And why is the original read, of transcend clear because he wasn't on kts (and he also wasn't on PC for that matter) invalid?

I can't gauge sincerity on Transcend because he can't describe his own thoughts - so...?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Mod, please prod Tenshii

[Transcend]

mod please prod transcend as all of his recent posts have been prod-dodges

[tojam2]

Tenshii has been prodded

[Tenshii]

Meant to post yesterday but I had to get off. Gimme a bit to catch up I'll post in a bit.

[Tenshii]

just a vague "well I'm not 100% sure giga is town so there's a bit of paranoia there, even though it's not a priority to evaluate" thing?

This.

Apparently my actions can be a bus. Why can't his?

Why does scum!Karnos not vote his top scumread, Thor, when there's a bandwagon on Thor and nobody but him on Io?
Why does scum!Karnos challenge a scum!kcdaspot to hammer him?
Why does scum!kcdaspot not hop on your wagon and just try to counterwagon onto KTS?
Why does scum!Thor call me out for having a lack of ability to value call interactions and not explain what value calling interactions is?

@Tenshii when you can, may you please explain why you voted KTS over Luna Fox?

Which KTS vote?

If "we need a lynch" was your justification for hopping onto KTS in 1317, what made you change your mind and hop off him in 1377 onto a PC wagon that wasn't really going anywhere?

That was a deadline compromise lynch. And then I switched back when I realized we had more time than I thought.

This is a busywork question - why are you making it up to ask me? Frankly, the first one was fairly busy work also.

I still don't understand how that was busywork though.

I feel like it has to be Thor, despite everyone and their mother townreading him. Also is it just me or dae feel like today is lylo?

[Thor665]

You're having conversations that have no connection to the conversations you're replying to or are intentionally kind of sidestepping them.

[Tenshii]

I was replying to all the questions referred to me in one post. Assuming you realize that, then I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Tenshii]

Oh I get it. Okay so Reply 1 was saying "This" as in what I replied to is what I agree with. And Reply 2 is saying there's more reasons for Thor to be scumread here than Giga. And also Karnos's interactions with Giga have tidbits in there where it comes off like Karnos is talking to town!Giga. And Giga has tidbits where she talks like she genuinely doesn't know for sure Karnos is scum.

[Transcend]

hi