Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[GuyInFreezer]

VC 1.14

Accountant (2):

MaidMarian, GuiltyLion

copper223 (1):

goodmorning

Debonair Danny DiPietro (3):

ironstove, DragonFire, copper223

DragonFire (2):

Accountant, Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting:

JaeReed

With

9

votes,

5

votes to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-10 16:07:31).

[Dragonfire]

"The person concerned" is surely DDD since the case is on him, no?

Yes, but at the time you wrote this DDD had not responded to the case, so I thought it was quite an odd thing to say.

1) My first post - now he's claiming to "have no particular problem with the levity, brevity and quick catch-up style of his post" but remember, he had no issue enabling copper by calling it weird and claiming to not understand it earlier. Maybe he "got it" at some point between then and now but it was mighty convenient at the time to keep copper harassing me and it was a fucking catch-up post, it's not exactly rocket science, what is there to get?

When I came into the game, I did have a problem with your post, but it was primarily because I felt you were trying to justify your townread on drealmerz because of his joke post, which nobody found very AI, and then pushing that copper was scum because he didn't understand it either. That's why I found it weird. I never said that the levity, brevity and style was weird. If you'd just said "drealmerz is town" then I wouldn't have found it as weird as you trying to push that he was town based on that joke post. Anyway, your explanation clears things up a bit with regards to the first post, but I still have issues with it, as I laid out in the case.

Also, this is testament to your arrogance: you simply can't comprehend that someone might have no idea what you're talking about. Or you're scum trying to back out of a sticky situation.

What is this shit? Dreal was under absolutely no pressure at that point, giving a paragraph lecture about how the people who aren't calling him scum shouldn't call him scum is a waste of time. Further, I like how I'm supposed to be able to psychically anticipate that other people are going to take umbrage with a town-read on a player who isn't being pressured. Finally, later he comes back to this read and just comes up with the absolute dumbest shit, he doubles down in his completely asinine theory that despite the fact that I said dreal was town and linked it to his joke in my initial post, never implied I wasn't dead serious about that, and then stated an argument that is completely logical even if people don't agree with it that I apparently completely came up with my argument on the spot only because I was pressured. In what reality does this make sense?

Okay. I never said that you should have explained it all in your first post. I said that a townie, upon being accused of making up nonsensical reasons to townread someone, should have instantly posted their thought process. You weren't supposed to anticipate it; it was how you responded to copper that looked scummy. The delay in posting it does make me think that scum!you initially tried to brush off the fact that you didn't have a reason for the townread, by just accusing copper rather than actually responding to him. Then when pressured and in danger of a lynch you came up with some reasons. Look, I know that someone as experienced as you would have no problem at all in fabricating something like that, so that doesn't fool me.

There are only two people who took umbrage with my initial post. Copper, who now claims it was a reaction test and you, who claimed to believe him and who enabled him but now you've claimed to come to the realization that it was just a perfectly normal catch up post. How am I not vindicated here? There's no one left legitimately claiming there's an issue with my first post and yet somehow my arrogance and attacks are unjustified when it's clear that you or copper or both of you were full of it.

The part of my post you quoted wasn't referring to your first post... And yes, I don't think there is an issue with it. It's what followed that makes you scummy to me. And just to clarify, copper's "reaction test" was him saying "GL's post is a scum claim" and "GL and DDD are the scum team". He did have a legitimate issue with your first post, so please don't try to brush it off as you have other things.

6) Whining about me voting for him - I'm not voting for you because you're voting for me, I'm voting for you because asty was scummy and because I don't believe your arguments are made in good faith. Notice how I do my best to ignore the windowlicker that is ironstove? I think he's brain damaged town and while it would feel really good to break his neck, I learned long ago that if you want to win you need to lynch scum, not idiots.

No, you're not voting iron because nobody else would support a wagon on him. You know that I'm scumread by most of the player base and you're going to take advantage of that to avoid a wagon on you.

Nah there was a very good point there in Dragon's case, why write the Drealmerz read off as a joke

(The rest of you should read again carefully 375 and his reply to my point d).)

then accept that others view it as a joke as many mentioned without mentioning that it's a real read in reply

and only later, when pressed and wagoned come up with the explanation in 665?

That's bullshit, it's changing the narrative to depending on the circumstances which likely means there likely was no real read to begin with.

I agree.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yes, but at the time you wrote this DDD had not responded to the case, so I thought it was quite an odd thing to say.

She thought you case sucked because it did, but it'd be bad form for her to point out why before I did. Not odd at all.

Okay. I never said that you should have explained it all in your first post. I said that a townie, upon being accused of making up nonsensical reasons to townread someone, should have instantly posted their thought process. You weren't supposed to anticipate it; it was how you responded to copper that looked scummy. The delay in posting it does make me think that scum!you initially tried to brush off the fact that you didn't have a reason for the townread, by just accusing copper rather than actually responding to him. Then when pressured and in danger of a lynch you came up with some reasons. Look, I know that someone as experienced as you would have no problem at all in fabricating something like that, so that doesn't fool me.

See this is where your argument completely falls apart and in such an obvious fashion. The simple question of why? Why would I post a read without having a reason behind it? Because I can come up with an explanation on the fly? Then why not assume I had already done that? Because it's inconvenient for your argument. You're trying to portray me as a genius who can spin anything after the fact but also as an idiot who posts imaginary reads for no benefit other than I can. It's bafflingly incoherent and still manages to lack any scummy motivation.

No, you're not voting iron because nobody else would support a wagon on him. You know that I'm scumread by most of the player base and you're going to take advantage of that to avoid a wagon on you.

No, I thought ST was town (see my first post) and I thought your slot was decent odds for scum (see my first post) and I've seen continued scummy behavior from you since (see my posts since then) and a bunch of dumb from iron (see my posts since then). But thanks for trying to tell me what I think about the game even when it contrasts with everything I've actually thought and posted.

[Dragonfire]

See this is where your argument completely falls apart and in such an obvious fashion. The simple question of why? Why would I post a read without having a reason behind it? Because I can come up with an explanation on the fly? Then why not assume I had already done that? Because it's inconvenient for your argument. You're trying to portray me as a genius who can spin anything after the fact but also as an idiot who posts imaginary reads for no benefit other than I can. It's bafflingly incoherent and still manages to lack any scummy motivation.

You posted a whole lot of reads with no reasoning behind them, so that point is moot. You were likely hoping to get away with not having to explain them, and you probably felt confident you could give some decent reasons if asked. Reads lists look towny, so that's the motivation for posting them.

No, I thought ST was town (see my first post) and I thought your slot was decent odds for scum (see my first post) and I've seen continued scummy behavior from you since (see my posts since then) and a bunch of dumb from iron (see my posts since then). But thanks for trying to tell me what I think about the game even when it contrasts with everything I've actually thought and posted.

My "continued scummy behaviour" seems to consist only of the so-called Amished tell and my accusations towards you, from doing a quick read of your posts. And don't try and tell me the vote wasn't opportunistic. It 100% was and you probably just made up the whole "oh I suspect dragon more than copper now" thing.

[Accountant]

You were likely hoping to get away with not having to explain them, and you probably felt confident you could give some decent reasons if asked.

Scum!DDD knows he's going to get pressed on his reads. Why would he not have reasons prepared? Furthermore, why would he feel confident he could give decent reasons unless he actually could?

[copper223]

Why are you assuming he would prepare his reads beforehand as scum?

DDD strikes me as a confident person, I'm sure he believes he can make something up if he has to.

The question is if he has, I don't have quite the smoking gun I thought I had found on Dragon's prompting because DDD's interpretation is not completely implausible but I'm still going through the rest of your ISOs to see how many of you mentioned it was not a serious read, because it's undeniable that he let that slide for a long time and there really is very little reason to do so.

Already after my first accusation, if he thought that was scum jumping on him, he would have had a perfectly good motivation to explain why that read was genuine and where it came from so he could turn around and make a stronger argument for me being scum.

Notice the different way in which he treated the points I made about the drealmerz read and the Jae read by the way (where I claim he seems to be addressing his top scum-read Jae as if they were town), there he took the time to explain himself; this means that DDD just being cagey in general is not a satisfactory answer.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

There is literally zero evidence that I made my arguments up on the fly. There is actual evidence of me giving reasons for my reads in my first post. There are actual points about Asty, ST, and Accountant. This idea that I would read the game, give legitimate reasons for reads in most places, then in another case give a read linked to a post (and admittedly under explain it) and somehow not mean what I said figuring that I could fill in the gaps later is crazy. There's literally no benefit for the suggested behavior, as town or scum. There's literally no evidence that's what I did and there's plenty of evidence that I said what I meant and meant what I said. The whole line of discussion is nonsense and dragon and copper act like I'm not justified when I get pissed with their amazing tag team act where one of them slags me with bad arguments and the other does their best to enable them.

[copper223]

You justified that line of inquiry yourself when you said the following:

My first real post in the game is clearly not intended to be a serious case on anyone, it was a series of things that caught my eye to show my thought process

That doesn't match up well with your latest.

[GuyInFreezer]

jon_h61 replaces MaidMarian. The deadline will resume at 4 days mark. VC 1.14 will reflect the changed and resumed deadline.
GuiltyLion is prodded.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You justified that line of inquiry yourself when you said the following:

My first real post in the game is clearly not intended to be a serious case on anyone, it was a series of things that caught my eye to show my thought process

That doesn't match up well with your latest.

Do you really have no sense of nuance? No ability to fill in the gaps? There's a very obvious argument here. Surprise me, make my argument for me, prove to me you can think critically.

[ironstove]

Hello, jon_h61.

[Dragonfire]

Why are you assuming he would prepare his reads beforehand as scum?

DDD strikes me as a confident person, I'm sure he believes he can make something up if he has to.

The question is if he has, I don't have quite the smoking gun I thought I had found on Dragon's prompting because DDD's interpretation is not completely implausible but I'm still going through the rest of your ISOs to see how many of you mentioned it was not a serious read, because it's undeniable that he let that slide for a long time and there really is very little reason to do so.

Already after my first accusation, if he thought that was scum jumping on him, he would have had a perfectly good motivation to explain why that read was genuine and where it came from so he could turn around and make a stronger argument for me being scum.

Yes. It's interesting that he's never actually made a case on you or made a stronger argument for you being scum than "he attacked me, he's lying about reaction testing me, his argument is bad". Laying his reasoning and explanations out when you first accused him would probably have hugely altered my current read on him.

And re: the ISO point, I definitely mentioned that I thought he was joking, and was initially quite shocked when he said he wasn't.

[jon_h61]

Hi all.

First things first.
UNVOTE:
@accountant l seriously didn't know you were in the game before I asked GiF to play. I just remembered him from my earlier mafia career.
So. There's that. Let's keep things to this game. K?

I iso'd my former slot's posts and I say disregard any soft claims you may think you see. I'm really a ....


I'll be back later.

[jon_h61]

Hi all.

First things first.
UNVOTE:
@accountant l seriously didn't know you were in the game before I asked GiF to play. I just remembered him from my earlier mafia career.
So. There's that. Let's keep things to this game. K?

I iso'd my former slot's posts and I say disregard any soft claims you may think you see. I'm really a ....


I'll be back later.

[jon_h61]

Damn phone posting. I hate it already.

[goodmorning]

@Acct: Depends what you mean by 'emotional'.

"The person concerned" is surely DDD since the case is on him, no?

Yes, but at the time you wrote this DDD had not responded to the case, so I thought it was quite an odd thing to say.

No, but he'd responded to some of your earlier jabs which I assumed you were talking about.

--

jon! Let's wrongtunnel each other again or something!

[jon_h61]

You were likely hoping to get away with not having to explain them, and you probably felt confident you could give some decent reasons if asked.

Scum!DDD knows he's going to get pressed on his reads. Why would he not have reasons prepared? Furthermore, why would he feel confident he could give decent reasons unless he actually could?

Exactly. Are you saying DDD picked someone to scum read before coming up with reasons because he was confident?

VOTE: Dragonfire

[jon_h61]

Hi gm no deathtunnels sounds nice.

What do you think of accountant? I think if he's scum hell be easily caught. Just my opinion.

[jon_h61]

Ebwop nicer

[jon_h61]

I be but a humble pirate. Some body explain their scum read simply. In small words

[jon_h61]

Don't knock yourself down, your opinions are as important as everyone else's.

Ofc if you happened to draw scum I guess it sucks to be you and I'm coming for ya. Don't knock yourself down, your opinions are as important as everyone else's. Ofc if you happened to draw scum I guess it sucks to be you and I'm coming for ya.

If i was scum i'm pretty sure i would be unmasked after less than 48 hours. I'm a terrible liar, but you only have my word for it. Actually, it's also a very different timing and thought process than in a live one, so maybe i'm better at it. Or worse, we'll see. Anyway for now i don't have much to share with you guys ; i've skimmed through some of the other games and i'm impressed with how little people seem to work with when trying to figure out who's scum. I don't feel that in this domain i have a lot to share but i'll try to be as active as possible to not be a deadweight in the debates.

Copper sounds pretty scummy. If you ask me.

[jon_h61]

I remember reading somewhere about scum getting Day talk. Is this a thing!?

omg town tell. Just an answer would be nice.

[JaeReed]

Nah no day talk in newbies. There was a trial a while ago but it ended.

[goodmorning]

I think Accountant says a lot of words.

And Jae is correct about the DayTalk thing.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm interested, what would you have thought if I'd decided to go back on my scumread on DDD and unvote after his post?

That would have made me much more likely to think you are town, and tbh probably more inclined to think DDD is scum?

But you said "let me reassess" in 668 and acknowledged that he provided one of the biggest things that you wanted from him, then when prompted to follow up, you said

The fact that he never explained it earlier (which could have prevented the whole debacle) might mean that he was struggling to come up with a reason, as scum. So my vote will stay where it is, because I really can't see who else I'd lynch today other than him.

where you kinda just fell back to PoE, and I'm not following why you think he was struggling to come up with a reason.

also, why are you asking this question of one of your top townreads?