Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)


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Post Post #950 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 929, copper223 wrote: I am convinced Jae is town, they tell me they think Accountant and DDD are not scum (I've been going back and forth with the two of them so I'm likely the more biased of the two when judging those players), but we do both agree that you could be scum and that's one point.
I'm back and forth on DDD for his recent content. Might be willing to go there. Funnily enough it's for the same reasons you're thinking he's more likely to be town.
In post 929, copper223 wrote:You and Accountant being a team is based on you saying (and me verifying) that you tend to town-read your teammates as scum, that you've given a town-read on Accountant that I don't understand (and when I asked you to explain or prodded you about a point I made for why Accountant is scum, you told me those things were NAI, but if that's the case where does the town-read come from and why weren't you worried about me pushing NAI points in the first place?).
The analysis of this in brackets is a good point.
In post 929, copper223 wrote:DDD is the only scum-read you have so your case on him is an important part of your read, when I first read it the point you made about how he handled the Drealmerz joke seemed legit to me (I also thought there might be something there), so I checked the interaction and I found the post I quoted, but the way DDD says he interpreted it is possible and his subsequent logic for why there was one scum on him and one sitting on the sidelines makes sense and it's the same process I've used to PoE one scum between {Acc., DDD, GM} and the rest of you.
Why do you not believe scum!DDD would fake scumhunting off his own wagon? I think anyone who has been run up as town would know what to do about it as scum. I don't feel like he's analyzing the votes on his wagon. Generally as town if you think you're going to be lynched and need to scumhunt off your wagon, you're going to look at who had the shiftiest looking votes on you, and who stayed off for no discernible reason. You did that. DDD did not.
In post 932, Dragonfire wrote: I just told you, the townread comes from me reading Accountant's posts before my first catch-up post.

So you bascially scumread me by PoE, because you think Jae is town and so automatically trust his reads, and you think DDD's logic makes sense? Also, I agree that there's definitely at least one scum in {Accountant, DDD, GM}.
Why are you attempting to discredit copper while agreeing with him on his "one of these three" scumreads? And by discredit, I mean the "scumread by PoE" and "automatically trust his reads" part of your post, not the part where you explain your townread on Accountant.
In post 933, jon_h61 wrote:@copper I've read a lot of your posts in every one else's posts. But you right about me not reading you in ISO. I still think of us nine, you are most likely to be scum. I'll try to get a wall put up to show why I think that but phone. Ugh.

Who knows, maybe I'll cave and unvote you. :wink:
In post 934, jon_h61 wrote:Actually I think that is a waste of time. I think you're scum because of your attacks. They're weak, or meant to intimidate. I think you're scum.
In post 937, jon_h61 wrote:Look, when reading ISOs I jump from it to the thread when I come across something I question. So its not like I haven't seen anything you've said. Putting out your suspicions (like some recent posts do) will help me better. I've read a lot of what you posted. I could be wrong. I don't think I am.

I won't convince you you're scum so I think we're done.
Stop.Trying.To.Destroy.My.TR.On.Your.Slot.

If you haven't read his posts and it's only been through other people's posts who have been pushing on him (by quoting what they think looks scummy, because when you're pushing for a lynch on someone you don't quote the shit that makes them look town, do you???) then you can't realistically make a fucking case on him. You realized this pretty quickly and decided to take the lazy way out. Stop it.
In post 938, Dragonfire wrote: Well the issue is that when I am lynched and flip town, you'll probably be next, as I won't be around to argue against your lynch and most people seem to think either you or I is scum. So I'd rather not die, knowing that my death will likely cause the death of another townie. I would be fine with my lynch if you agreed to lynch DDD tomorrow after my flip, but it seems like that's not going to happen.
This is actually a possible outcome since I'm likely the nk tonight and won't be around to defend him. Anyone pushing copper due to BoP tomorrow if the lynch today falls on town should be speedlynched. 100% serious here.
In post 939, copper223 wrote:@Dragon
I understand, regardless of your alignment you should vote for me here.

I am also really not in the mood to continue so if you're town we probably have better chances if you make your DDD case tomorrow.

If you are town, look at the players that positioned themselves to vote for one of us regardless of the flip, they may be the ones setting up the mis-lynch, I am pretty confident of my Jae read so try to work with them.
No if Dragon is town and townreading you then voting for you would be bad. You're one of the strongest town players here which is why scum is obviously pushing for your lynch. Like I get that you're frustrated but we absolutely need you in this game for as long as scum risks not shooting you because you are one of the better players.

Also you need to be more paranoid of me wking you as scum here. You're being too trusting. Motivation could simply be that you had me in your potential scum pool as a partner for one of your main scumreads and I didn't want you to flip with that being the end read. This is why you're susceptible to pocketing.
In post 940, goodmorning wrote:
In post 938, Dragonfire wrote:Well the issue is that when I am lynched and flip town, you'll probably be next, as I won't be around to argue against your lynch and most people seem to think either you or I is scum. So I'd rather not die,
knowing that my death will likely cause the death of another townie
. I would be fine with my lynch if you agreed to lynch DDD tomorrow after my flip, but it seems like that's not going to happen.
what
No. You do not play the word game after I called you out earlier in the thread when it was ACTUALLY time to play the semantics game to get the game rolling. You do not do that. You have no right to. So no. You know perfectly well what was intended with that phrasing and you know perfectly well that wasn't a slip.
In post 941, ironstove wrote:That was a scum slip that gm just pointed out
In the great words of Nahdia: "Pointing out scum slips that aren't really slips is a scumtell"
GM probably scum. We caught Dewy this way too in the Newbie I played with GL. it's a surprisingly accurate scumtell.
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Post Post #951 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:52 pm

Post by goodmorning »

In post 946, JaeReed wrote:"I get fear-killed N1 or N2 as town all the time or otherwise lynched D2 due to burden of proficiency because my reads are usually good"
"lol u suck ever think of that?"

GM...stahp.
idk why you should take his word for it

but o k t h e n
In post 895, goodmorning wrote:
In post 891, JaeReed wrote:I think copper is town guaranteed after that post
ugh, seriously???
yes, seriously. As a supposed tone reader you should have felt that too. That's not the seething rage of caught scum.
That's
the seething rage of
a
good
player about to be lynched for playing the way he always plays
. I'm not letting it happen.
I agree wholeheartedly with the underlined; I think it reads as "Scum caught for what he thinks are the wrong reasons, but sees the possibility of slithering out of a lynch if he only throws Dragon to the wolves."

As ironstove pointed out (), copper's Dragon vote was pretty opportunistic. As I'm going to point out right here, copper's is tonally inconsistent with his . is a thinly-veiled attempt to take a moral high ground he's not actually entitled to RE: the DDD wagon.

But, you know, you can drink the AtE koolaid if you want.
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Post Post #952 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:53 pm

Post by goodmorning »

@Jae: I don't know how on earth Dragon can possibly think copper is Town unless copper is actually Town and Dragon is Scum.
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Post Post #953 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:54 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 948, ironstove wrote:I would still prefer DDD, but I'm curious if that post was a legit scum slip or stupid town.
It wasn't. You actually need to look at the context and everything. He said "likely" and that does not imply a slip. Even if he said town it still would not be a slip if he's townreading copper. GM saying it was a slip when it clearly wasn't is a scumtell and one I have had success with in the past. Also the amount of caps spam she has been doing reads a lot like "CAPS MAKE ME LOOK LIKE I'M RAGING AND EMOTION IS TOWNREAD".
In post 949, jon_h61 wrote:@ Jae have you played with copper before?

I know if I was scum, I wouldn't go quietly into the Night. I won't as Town either.
Do you think he's Town that's right about something. Or just Town? Who's looking worse out of those accusing him?

Pedit me too
Yea, but not in any capacity that I can talk about.

It's not about him going quietly. It's about the tone. It's about him still managing to get out something useful despite the post
dripping
with boiling hatred for this table. That is him still playing to wincon while wishing every last one of this game's town takes a pineapple up the ass for being shit teammates.

I think he's town and he's right about something, and being pushed by scum. Who, exactly, he's right about is something that's still in the air.
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Post Post #954 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:57 pm

Post by goodmorning »

[ftr i am now entirely unwilling to vote anyone but copper today]
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Post Post #955 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:59 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 951, goodmorning wrote:
In post 946, JaeReed wrote:"I get fear-killed N1 or N2 as town all the time or otherwise lynched D2 due to burden of proficiency because my reads are usually good"
"lol u suck ever think of that?"

GM...stahp.
idk why you should take his word for it

but o k t h e n
I'm not taking his word for it. I have seen it happen. More than once.
In post 951, goodmorning wrote:
In post 895, goodmorning wrote:
In post 891, JaeReed wrote:I think copper is town guaranteed after that post
ugh, seriously???
yes, seriously. As a supposed tone reader you should have felt that too. That's not the seething rage of caught scum.
That's
the seething rage of
a
good
player about to be lynched for playing the way he always plays
. I'm not letting it happen.
I agree wholeheartedly with the underlined; I think it reads as "Scum caught for what he thinks are the wrong reasons, but sees the possibility of slithering out of a lynch if he only throws Dragon to the wolves."

As ironstove pointed out (), copper's Dragon vote was pretty opportunistic. As I'm going to point out right here, copper's is tonally inconsistent with his . is a thinly-veiled attempt to take a moral high ground he's not actually entitled to RE: the DDD wagon.

But, you know, you can drink the AtE koolaid if you want.
No, copper's vote on Dragon is because I am trying to derail his wagon because he's fucking town. That's where the compromise landed. If copper had said he preferred the 1v1 on Accountant I would have actually fucking voted Accountant over copper because I am THAT determined to make sure copper does not get lynched. Then you'd be up my ass for voting a tr of mine.

But, you know, you're playing to YOUR wincon so keep trying. I can't believe I thought I actually might get a town IC.
In post 952, goodmorning wrote:@Jae: I don't know how on earth Dragon can possibly think copper is Town unless copper is actually Town and Dragon is Scum.
Why? You're just throwing random beliefs around without backing it up here.
goodmorning wrote:[ftr i am now entirely unwilling to vote anyone but copper today]
I am now entirely willing to lynch your scummy ass today.
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Post Post #956 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:02 pm

Post by JaeReed »

In post 954, goodmorning wrote:[ftr i am now entirely unwilling to vote anyone but copper today]
Like this is so fucking bs. You weren't going to change your vote from copper anyway so this is just PURE posturing.
Plus the "scum slip" bs.
This comes following me considering that DDD might be the scum in Dragon/DDD - a little fucking convenient don't you think???

And yes, by "you" I'm addressing the rest of the game, scummorning doesn't need to answer that.
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Post Post #957 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:15 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 948, ironstove wrote:I would still prefer DDD, but I'm curious if that post was a legit scum slip or stupid town.
why did you post this?

not buying copper's vote being opportunistic either.
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Post Post #958 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:17 pm

Post by goodmorning »

You go on and push me, I can guarantee it won't happen.
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Post Post #959 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:20 pm

Post by goodmorning »

Also FUN FACT: I've played with copper before! I'm NOT SCUMREADING HIM FOR HIS DUMBASS PLAYSTYLE!
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Post Post #960 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:24 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

after much consideration I have decided that the Dragonfire wagon is a Good Wagon, certainly leagues better than the copper one

intent to hammer
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Post Post #961 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:00 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

In post 940, goodmorning wrote:The you-scum case that they put forward, for instance.
copper backed down; Dragon didn't.
Sure, but couldn't that equally mean that copper actually thought about the game and realized how bad the arguments were when someone else made them? And conversely that Dragon made those arguments because he expected to have backup from copper and not out of good faith?
In post 946, JaeReed wrote:
In post 894, Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:
In post 851, jon_h61 wrote:
My initial read of DDD is Town. I still don't get the copper/Dragon tag team. Just seems "too scummy to be scum." I'm almost sure one of them is scum. The argument is just so convoluted. It doesn't feel natural (to me).
I'll disagree with Accountant and agree the too scummy to be scum is a thing and while I wouldn't say copper/Dragon have achieved that, the way they've been operating as a tag team feels very strange.
Personally I'm more inclined towards one of (copper/Dragon) with a teammate sitting a bit off to the side in (Jae/GL)
but there is a possibility that Dragon replaced in and felt the need to help his buddy make his point and then figuring they'd already linked each other they just embraced it hoping to draw the exact argument that scum wouldn't link that closely together. There's even a little bit of suggestive evidence for the latter theory with copper's weird little jaunt into suspecting Dragon for like five seconds until Dragon posted the exact same arguments we'd seen before.

A) Too scummy to be scum is not a thing. Scummy looking people can just be scum. The end.
B) The way copper/Dragon have been acting is more indicative of not being partners than anything. You're not analyzing. You're jumping through so many hoops to try to make that theory work instead of actually evaluating the plausibility that it's fucking astounding.
C) Your "reads" with partnerships are now bad enough to actually be AI.
A) And they also can not be scum. I'm not saying it's an absolute but I think there are times to apply it.
B+C) Please read my post, I'm not inclined to agree with the argument I even made, I was just seeing if there could be a logical process to the pairing and there is, I do think it's less likely than the alternative however.
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Post Post #962 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:14 pm

Post by ironstove »

We have ~24 hours left before the day ends, I think we should hammer someone. I think that person should be DDD. I don't like compromising for dragon. Dragon might be scum, but DDD is glowing from the scum radiation he is emitting from his posts.

VOTE: DDD

If the rest of you are determined to lynch dragon, give him a bit of time to post incase he has a legit defense for himself...
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Post Post #963 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:36 pm

Post by goodmorning »

@DDD: Yes, but that's not what it looks like.
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Post Post #964 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:07 pm

Post by Dragonfire »

In post 960, GuiltyLion wrote:after much consideration I have decided that the Dragonfire wagon is a Good Wagon, certainly leagues better than the copper one

intent to hammer
All I can say is, I'm a
Vanilla Townie
. Good luck tomorrow, town, and remember,
don't lynch copper
.
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Post Post #965 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:07 pm

Post by Accountant »

willing to compro on drag, not on DDD
There's nothing that says that a fake can't beat the real thing.

You must not imagine that for beings like you and us there can be laughter. The low men laugh, and we envy them. But for us, the higher ones, there is no laughter, only an unending vigil, purely serious, stretching on into the night.
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Post Post #966 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

hmmmm

what kind of a "legit defense" could swing a wagon with <1 day until deadline

and is it a scum slip or not, ironstove

and are you ever gonna talk to me
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Post Post #967 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:58 pm

Post by copper223 »

In post 950, JaeReed wrote:Also you need to be more paranoid of me wking you as scum here. You're being too trusting. Motivation could simply be that you had me in your potential scum pool as a partner for one of your main scumreads and I didn't want you to flip with that being the end read. This is why you're susceptible to pocketing.
You may be right but I think you are way to paranoid about the people town-reading you, pocketing only works short term because sooner or later I am going to push their buddy and most of the time they change their read on me without explaining why or refuse to collaborate only on that player when they were happy with lynching every other scum-read I had and it comes out.

But anyway, you are town here, you'll notice I am not going as hard with my GL town-read (although I do think he is also more likely to be town) and he also WK'd me.

@GM
That's pretty outrageous considering you were shit at reading me (the same goes for me to be sure, but that's not the argument you're making) 3 years ago and you ended up self-hammering yourself out of that game, how does that make you in any way more competent than if we had never played?

I agree with Jae that you're posturing, I've never seen any actual willingness to join the Dragon wagon, if he flips scum you should be instagibbed.

@Dragon
Who do you think DDD's partner is?
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Post Post #968 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:59 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

tbh I'm calling Accountant and ironstove or jon but you all wanna lynch elsewhere and I may not be around for deadline

VOTE: Dragonfire

and this is definitely a better lynch than copper (or DDD)
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
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Post Post #969 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:07 pm

Post by GuiltyLion »

also that's still just L-1
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Post Post #970 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:09 pm

Post by copper223 »

@GL
Do you think GM is town?
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Post Post #971 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:27 pm

Post by copper223 »

I have a hard time buying scum_Dragon went for the "I'd rather you lynch me over copper" gambit when I explicitly gave him permission to vote me.

I understand the people that think we may be teammates, but since I know that's not what's happening I really can't support this.

VOTE: DDD
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Post Post #972 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:36 pm

Post by jon_h61 »

In post 236, JaeReed wrote:I wouldn't put it past copper to buddy the fuck outta me tbh. Like him saying that I wouldn't call the scumteam on pg 5 is bs as you know because iraon did the same shit and got townread for it. HOWEVER the person who pointed that out I think was town weren't they? idunno I'm not looking that up atm but that's my thought process there. Basically, what he pointed out was not a towntell b
who pointed out what? How do you know they were Town, and how are you going to go back and check?
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Post Post #973 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:55 pm

Post by jon_h61 »

In post 254, copper223 wrote:
In post 251, Accountant wrote:VOTE: copper
This vote has a higher probability than average of coming from scum, if I am screwing up by misreading JaeReed (in which case I deserve the heat) this is where I'd look for their partner.
How does you misreading Jae make accountant more likely scum?
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copper223
copper223
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copper223
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Post Post #974 (ISO) » Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:31 pm

Post by copper223 »

Like me Accountant had a tr on Jae early on, when GL and DDD started his wagon, and if I was wrong on Jae it could have been his buddy bailing him out.
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