Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[copper223]

I am on the phone so I can't post back that Taylor Swift GIF you sent me but consider it my reply.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am on the phone so I can't post back that Taylor Swift GIF you sent me but consider it my reply.

Jennifer Lawrence, stop embarrassing yourself.

Also, unlike some people I don't pretend to give up to pander to people's emotions. I know I really should pour on the theatrics instead of acting like the same old arrogant jerk I am but that's who I am and it's how I play. I am going to get Accountant to hold his position, I am going to get GL to lynch you, and I'm going to enjoy your name flipping red.

[copper223]

I approve of your sportsmanship but the only theatrics that are going on are your attempts to delay claiming.

[goodmorning]

i now understand the urges people have to do stupid things.

I'm also still unwilling to vote Dragon or DDD.

[Accountant]

my balls dropped off

I cant do it

Someone plz

[copper223]

VC 1.18 unofficial

copper223 (4):

goodmorning, jon_h61, Accountant, Debonair Danny DiPietro

Debonair Danny DiPietro (4):

ironstove, DragonFire, copper223, JaeReed

DragonFire (1):

GuiltyLion

Not Voting:

None

With

9

votes,

5

votes to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-10 16:07:31).

[Accountant]

DDD, why the switch from Dragon to copper?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, why the switch from Dragon to copper?

Well I mean the first obvious underlying issue is that I'm town and I know my lynch is a failure for the town. At this point avoiding my lynch is a bigger priority than sorting which of copper and Dragon is marginally more scummy. You don't express yourself in a fashion that I can clearly interpret clear preferences from you, but I know that Jon has a clear preference for copper and I'm not sure GM would move off copper even if it meant my lynch or a no lynch at this point. GL is certainly not the person I wanted to have to rely on but I think it's easier for one person to do the right thing rather than three. And time is the biggest factor both for all of us and me in particular, I'm driving three hours to Louisville tonight after work and playing Magic all day tomorrow. If you think Dragon is a more likely lynch than Copper, feel free to move your vote and I will move mine back and do my best to pull Jon and GM with us in the little time I have but time is of the essence.

[GuiltyLion]

yeah tbh I don't see why having a firm townread on copper clears Dragon

I think both of these wagons are on town

@copper - why are you arguing that not claiming is scum play? I've grown to believe that the only people who need to claim are PRs, if you're a VT then it's not like claiming is going to exonerate you or provide useful info to town, effectively all it does is say "I'm okay to lynch" and it also benefits scum in that they now know

for certain

that they shouldn't NK you. If DDD is scum I feel he'd just claim a PR here to either out another PR or push the lynch off him at deadline.

@DDD - 1001 makes it sound like you think copper is scum. 1007 makes it sound like you don't really have a preference between copper/Dragon. What's the deal?

[GuiltyLion]

DDD is trying to buy time, then if forced he will claim VT and that he did not want to help scum by narrowing the PR pool.

like this just egh. don't like it

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Final notes for GL about why a copper lynch is the right thing to do:

1) He's throttling the life out of the town. I have a hard time believing he's that oblivious to what he's done and what he's doing but he's posting the town to death. He has more posts than you and the second highest player combined and they're not just posts that are cheap and easy to read. You can see me and GM and other players all get frustrated with him drowning the town that's let this permanent malaise set in.

2) I replaced into the game with a jaunty catch up post and he immediately started attacking it for awful reasons. "I had to be addressing Jae as if he was town because I gave a two word answer that refuted the argument he made in a post but I had him as a possible scum read." But don't worry he later clued us in that it was just a reaction test; the classic refuge of a scoundrel. "Oh I didn't mean those awful arguments I made since I got called out on them, I was just testing you." And what were the conclusions that he drew from his reaction test? Well, I was scum for a while for vague reasons and then I wasn't and now I am again.

3) He votes Dragon, calls me town and omits me from his top three scum reads and then three seconds later he's back voting for me because Dragon AtE'd a bit. What nonsense, he doesn't sincerely believe anything at this point in the game, it's all a show.

4) Your first strong read was Jae-scum, your last strong read was Dragon-scum. iron is a paste eater of the highest consumption levels. Are those really the players you think you should be voting with?

It's time to do the right thing.

~~

Might be able to check in via phone much later tonight but no guarantees. Please don't fuck this up, town.

[jon_h61]

@ copper I'm sure you meant that as an inb4, but it's the incredible amount of things said like this keeps me from doubting my read.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD - 1001 makes it sound like you think copper is scum. 1007 makes it sound like you don't really have a preference between copper/Dragon. What's the deal?

1001 is mostly braggadocio; I think Dragon is slightly more likely scum; but I don't think his lynch can happen today. I think copper is very scummy and is still a very good lynch today.

[GuiltyLion]

well first off I never claimed to be strongly scumreading Dragon, but yes generally your point about the wagon is what makes me not want to vote you. also Accountant was WKing (even referring to it as such) the first DDD wagon and Dragonfire kinda just stayed on it opportunistically when I suggested being willing to vote there

[copper223]

@copper - why are you arguing that not claiming is scum play? I've grown to believe that the only people who need to claim are PRs, if you're a VT then it's not like claiming is going to exonerate you or provide useful info to town, effectively all it does is say "I'm okay to lynch" and it also benefits scum in that they now know for certain that they shouldn't NK you. If DDD is scum I feel he'd just claim a PR here to either out another PR or push the lynch off him at deadline.

The moment you are run up and you don't claim a PR scum knows not to NK you, if they want to PR hunt with their NKs.

You are basically arguing that setup WIFOM benefits the uninformed majority instead of the informed minority and that is incorrect, they have much more information at their disposal and that's one of their main focuses so they are very likely going to figure out what is really happening, whereas town may well not and that can lead to major disasters like a PR being lynched instead of "vanilla half of town suspects me already so I am an easy mis-lynch" you.

If you have been run up as town and you are a VT you need to claim to tell the rest that if they really suspect you it's ok to lynch you (they won't lose a PR), because your objective is to win with the rest, not to survive (contrary to scum who of course will try everything to derail their lynch and that's why this behavior is much more likely to come from them), so in this instance if trust can't be established it's better for you to flip and show them that you were indeed part of their faction, they can then look at your controversial slot and try and figure out who was scum and who was town given the information about you.

DDD has shown signs that he just might be a PR (despite both Iron and I cockblocking him as soon as he started with that nonsense) so yeah, I also feel that if left alone he would have tried to claim a PR to at least get a trade.

[GuiltyLion]

DDD has shown signs that he just might be a PR (despite both Iron and I cockblocking him as soon as he started with that nonsense) so yeah, I also feel that if left alone he would have tried to claim a PR to at least get a trade.

can you point me to this, I missed it if it happened

[copper223]

Obviously not, if you are a town PR the last thing you want is for someone to randomly hammer you while you hesitate.

DDD is trying to buy time, then if forced he will claim VT and that he did not want to help scum by narrowing the PR pool.

No one is going to randomly hammer, the impulsive idiots are already all voting for me.

.

The implication here is: since I don't fear a random hammer (because the idiots are already voting me) I could well be a PR and behave in this manner (so bewaaaare, don't lynch meeeeeee).

[copper223]

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

[copper223]

As far as I am concerned I am working with an extra town flip on Dragon compared to the rest of you, and that's why I am now certain that DDD is scum.

[jon_h61]

I solemnly promise not to claim, even on pain of death.there's honesty in death.

[jon_h61]

@copper can you point me to a game where you're proud of the reads you pushed. Were you successful convincing others?

[copper223]

This is the newbie I played right before this one, I pushed all the lynches while I was alive, the first was on lurker town and the next on scum.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66575

[Accountant]

I don't think a random hammer is on the cards right now. I'm obviously not going to quickhammer him, and everyone else is townreading him or wants their candidate lynched way more.

Retracting intent to hammer

[copper223]

There are better lynchers (Titus, RCB) and there are better readers (TTH, Kagami) out there, I don't know many that beat me at both though.

[copper223]

Maybe Fate.