Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[MariaR]

The one thing I hate about this site is if you're not giving hard facts like people flipping a role or you're not a pr anything you say is bs lol

[JarJarDrinks]

You're not going to be helpful to this town what so ever

Thor is easily one the most helpful players in this game. If you're not scum then you're one of the obstacles the town needs to overcome.

Like seriously, if ur town then u have to realize that fact that so many people are scumreading you as your own fault and how it's it's a distraction.

[MariaR]

You're not going to be helpful to this town what so ever

Thor is easily one the most helpful players in this game. If you're not scum then you're one of the obstacles the town needs to overcome.

Like seriously, if ur town then u have to realize that fact that so many people are scumreading you as your own fault and how it's it's a distraction.

No it's not my fault people can't read and are upset that they can't handle a bit of out of the normal play I'm getting sr for filler posts and the fact I sr someone people tr like ????????????

[MariaR]

It's so sad that the only game town did something was in a newbie game.

[MariaR]

You know what fine I give up everyone just things everything I say is scummy I'll stop defending Transcend and I'll change my game 100% starting now is that what you people want fine you get your wish

[chilledtea]

gigabyteTroubadour replaces Transcend. Please welcome them!

[MariaR]

EEEEEEEEEEEEK

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Hi, I'm slowly catching up!

UNVOTE:

I just started reading, I'm on page 9 and I currently have pretty good townreads on Thor, Nero, Kraska, and Maria. Since there's still a lot to go and the deadline is near, I think I'll save my closer readings/note-taking for the night.

Kraska

, since Elyse looks like the biggest bandwagon that isn't on someone I'm townreading, can you talk to me a bit more about her? I saw some of your points against her and agreed, I just would like to know if anything has solidified that scumread on her. I don't want to vote for her on my own until I get a good feel of the current gamestate, so some selected reading on that would be nice so we can expedite that a bit.

Also, in the case Transcend hasn't mentioned it yet, I'm negative utility (Ascetic to be specific). I'm still kind of new to the site but I'm under the impression it's correct town play to claim any NU as soon as possible.

[chilledtea]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 1.09

gigabyteTroubadour (L-2) : JarJarDrinks, MichelSableheart, Elyse, karnos, Blitzkrieg.

Elyse (L-5) : kraska77, I Am Innocent.

MariaR (L-6) : Thor665.

gerryoat (L-6) : Shadow_step.

kraska77 (L-6) : Nero Cain.

karnos (L-6) : MariaR.

Not Voting (2) : gerryoat, gigabyteTroubadour.

Nero Cain will be v-la till Sunday.


Day will end in (expired on 2016-09-13 10:30:00)

[kraska77]

Hi, I'm slowly catching up!

UNVOTE:

I just started reading, I'm on page 9 and I currently have pretty good townreads on Thor, Nero, Kraska, and Maria. Since there's still a lot to go and the deadline is near, I think I'll save my closer readings/note-taking for the night.

Kraska

, since Elyse looks like the biggest bandwagon that isn't on someone I'm townreading, can you talk to me a bit more about her? I saw some of your points against her and agreed, I just would like to know if anything has solidified that scumread on her. I don't want to vote for her on my own until I get a good feel of the current gamestate, so some selected reading on that would be nice so we can expedite that a bit.

Also, in the case Transcend hasn't mentioned it yet, I'm negative utility (Ascetic to be specific). I'm still kind of new to the site but I'm under the impression it's correct town play to claim any NU as soon as possible.

Read my iso

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Read my iso

Hm, not as helpful as I was anticipating, I'll read her ISO for myself. Has a lot actually happened this game? It feels bloated and it's kind of hard to read through

i don't think i'm ever shitposting again in mafia btw, god have mercy on people who replace in

[kraska77]

Also fwiw blitz is currently a stronger scum Read than elyse
If what transcend said is true and they've played with blitz before then the bullet points they were using against transcend were just a facade to resonate with the rest of the playerlist's perception of transcend's play
No way they've played with transcend before and yet thought he's scum for the reasons that provided

[MariaR]

I would pref to vote Bliz or Elyse since i can't get kar

But I will vote anyone over Giga and kraska

[kraska77]

Read my iso

Hm, not as helpful as I was anticipating, I'll read her ISO for myself. Has a lot actually happened this game? It feels bloated and it's kind of hard to read through

i don't think i'm ever shitposting again in mafia btw, god have mercy on people who replace in

Lol now that u mention it...I dodnt even notice this is now at 40 pages
Also be a g like me and never read the games you replace into (not this one tho)

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Thor

, talk to me a bit more about your read on Elyse. You've mentioned a few times in your ISO that you found her scummy and did vote for her, but beyond finding one of her votes opportunistic I haven't seen much development on it. I'm kind of worried since your vote seems parked on a vanity wagon when it looks like you can reasonably give a wagon on one of your other scumreads traction.

VOTE: Elyse

I don't really see a better place for my vote at the moment and this seems like the direction I'll be going in.

[Elyse]

Also, in the case Transcend hasn't mentioned it yet, I'm negative utility (Ascetic to be specific). I'm still kind of new to the site but I'm under the impression it's correct town play to claim any NU as soon as possible.

Transcend did not claim this because he is not town

[MariaR]

VOTE: Elyse gotta lose some to win some

[Elyse]

Maria I hope you know that if you actually are town then I'm really disappointed

[MichelSableheart]

No, I'm presenting that there is a relatively low chance that he does it as town, and a very high chance that he does it as scum.

You have failed to show this in any way.
What you *have* argued is that town shouldn't do what he did, a point I will happily agree with, but that is not then translatable into a low chance that he or other town would do that action.

That you can find an example where a town player fakeclaimed mason doesn't really counter that. Given your evidence, I have a 50% chance of lynching scum if I lynch someone fakeclaiming mason, as opposed to (generally) a 3 in 13 chance if I lynch completely randomly. Those are awesome odds!

I am willing to wager that outside of L-1 situations town fakeclaims more than scum do, even allowing for the larger number of players that draw town roles and allowing that alignment is not a fakeclaim.

You are also being a bit fast and loose with percentages there, as one could easily argue that any given player has a 50% chance to flip scum, as well as a 23% chance in this setup. I am not interested in debating percentages when neither you nor I have anything remotely close to valid info to draw those numbers from.

Given how bad the mason fakeclaim is for town, I believe there was a significant chance for Town Transcend to actually realize that it was a bad play and not do it. I do believe that there is a significant correlation between bad play for town and unlikely to be made by town.

You seriously believe that town fakeclaims more than scum do? That would mean an enormous meta shift in the past couple of years. Town fakeclaims simply didn't happen, except perhaps by total newbies who didn't know any better. Whereas things like cop claim gambits happened with some regularity by scum. If you're right, then play quality has deteriorated far more then I realized. Are things really that bleak?

And why isn't Lynch All Liars used more to deal with it? I mean, a fakeclaim is so obviously anti-town that it would make any player far more likely scum. Yet for some reason, you're willing to give the Trans slot a free pass here. Just how strong is your townread on the transcend slot, actually? Would you be willing to deadline lynch there, for example?

As for being loose with percentages, guilty as charged, though I do feel they give a reasonable approximation of the actual odds.

---
welcome giga, and thank you for replacing in. I know how annoying the bloat in this thread can be. There have been a couple of instances where I've been away for a couple of hours, only to come back to several pages of mostly useless content. Must be far worse for you.

The main thing you should be aware of, as you can see from the earlier part of my post, is that Transcend claimed to be masons with Elyse, then later retracted that claim. I hope you'll understand that I'll be pushing for your lynch.

[MariaR]

Maria I hope you know that if you actually are town then I'm really disappointed

Only voting you cause I don't see any other wagon starting between and I tr giga over you sorry!

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Also, in the case Transcend hasn't mentioned it yet, I'm negative utility (Ascetic to be specific). I'm still kind of new to the site but I'm under the impression it's correct town play to claim any NU as soon as possible.

Transcend did not claim this because he is not town

This is phrased really strangely to me for some reason, but other than that I'm not really going to comment on this.

welcome giga, and thank you for replacing in. I know how annoying the bloat in this thread can be. There have been a couple of instances where I've been away for a couple of hours, only to come back to several pages of mostly useless content. Must be far worse for you.

The main thing you should be aware of, as you can see from the earlier part of my post, is that Transcend claimed to be masons with Elyse, then later retracted that claim. I hope you'll understand that I'll be pushing for your lynch.

Elyse and Michel,

is the entire scumread of Transcend based around the fact people felt that his mason fakeclaim was an icky gambit to butter up Maria? I looked through Elyse's ISO and that's essentially the impression I got. If that's so, then I can understand the logic behind the scumread at the very least, even though I know it comes to the wrong conclusion. I think Thor, due to mutual [ongoing] experience with Transcend, can at least agree with me that Transcend is an... interesting player who would do something stupid like that as town. Plus, I think someone mentioned that EM's meta is more gambity, and knowing Transcend's playstyle from there (he pestered me to play there a few times, wasn't fond of it) this really does not come as a surprise. I can't really justify Transcend's thought process and I'm not really going to try, but this seems like typical Transcend to me.

There also seems to be a recurring belief that one of {Me, Maria} is mafia, but at the moment I'm townreading Maria so this thought process seems kind of weird to me. I can understand scum!Me/town!Maria and obviously town!Me/town!Maria, but I'm not exactly getting town!Me/scum!Maria. So, if this is still something people believe I would like to hear the logic behind scum!Maria.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Reading Michel's ISO, I'm surprised that my slot's case is the one being pushed to L-3 three days before the deadline. Is there really no slot that's done something more notable/scummy than "fakeclaiming masons with someone you townread can be anti-town"...? Because that sounds like a policy lynch to me and I really don't care for those.

I also don't really follow why people are comparing Michel to iraonavp... Sure, Michel and I probably think at different wavelengths but I can at least follow and understand his thought process to the point I'm giving him a townlean for it.

By the way... I don't think I'm going to be writing catch-up posts this game, I'd rather save us the time and try to directly sort out people and let that communicate my thoughts on the gamestate, if that makes sense.

[Blitzkrieg]

Maria I hope you know that if you actually are town then I'm really disappointed

Only voting you cause I don't see any other wagon starting between and I tr giga over you sorry!

Translation: She's voting you because she's scum with giga.

Giga who refuses to finish reading the thread but has a townread on Maria.

[gerryoat]

@Gerry: The reason why you should vote Transcend is pretty simple: He was the one who made the fakeclaim that he and Maria were masons.

As town, that's a risky proposition that he's not all that likely to do.

Transcend fake claims every game as town or mafia lol

[MariaR]

Maria I hope you know that if you actually are town then I'm really disappointed

Only voting you cause I don't see any other wagon starting between and I tr giga over you sorry!

Translation: She's voting you because she's scum with giga.

Giga who refuses to finish reading the thread but has a townread on Maria.

Ohhh I can't wait to make you eat those words