Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[Accountant]

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

This is a good point.

If copper is scum then it's unlikely he's going to walk in and call his scumbuddy conftown(keeping in mind his scumbuddy is a leading wagon target for the day). If copper is town then his logic here makes sense

I do think Dragon is town now, and I'd like copper lynched.

[copper223]

VC 1.19 unofficial

copper223 (4):

goodmorning, jon_h61, Accountant, Debonair Danny DiPietro

Debonair Danny DiPietro (4):

ironstove, DragonFire, copper223, JaeReed

DragonFire (1):

GuiltyLion

Not Voting:

None

With

9

votes,

5

votes to lynch.

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-10 16:07:31).

[jon_h61]

Things make Dragon more likely Town, but I want to say that as scum in the first game I played with GiF I didn't lynch uberninja when I had the chance. I NKed him.

[Dragonfire]

Just got back, this is getting far more interesting than before.

Well the issue is that when I am lynched and flip town, you'll probably be next, as I won't be around to argue against your lynch and most people seem to think either you or I is scum. So I'd rather not die,

knowing that my death will likely cause the death of another townie

. I would be fine with my lynch if you agreed to lynch DDD tomorrow after my flip, but it seems like that's not going to happen.

what

I don't like how you keep hinting at things (the so-called scumslip, the Amished tell etc.) and wait for other people to pick up on them and push them, so that they can take the blame for it. Leaning scum on you.

That was a scum slip that gm just pointed out

Explain, please, because nobody else is seeing it that way I think.

It's not about him going quietly. It's about the tone. It's about him still managing to get out something useful despite the post

dripping

with boiling hatred for this table. That is him still playing to wincon while wishing every last one of this game's town takes a pineapple up the ass for being shit teammates.

Yeah, that's why I read that post as town too.

We have ~24 hours left before the day ends, I think we should hammer someone. I think that person should be DDD. I don't like compromising for dragon. Dragon might be scum, but DDD is glowing from the scum radiation he is emitting from his posts.

VOTE: DDD

So.... how did you get from "Dragon scumslipped, lynch him!" to "DDD is scummier!" in the space of one page, during which I didn't post at all? I have a feeling you're just looking for easy wagons to jump on.

@Jae
If you believe that GL likely doesn't make that early push on you as town, then like GM on Dragon he could have also been soft bussing DDD and since he decided to distance himself from his push on me by WKing and his push on Accountant failed, he now wants to close the deal on Dragon (and the way he voted kind of implies he knew it was likely not going to be a good flip) before the question about him joining the DDD wagon comes up again.

Actually, the point about GL's vote is a good one. I got the feeling he kinda expected me to flip town from that post, which likely would be because he is scum and knows my alignment.

Based on looking through past games, this is town GM.

Evidence? You can't just say something like that and not have any reasoning behind it.

[Dragonfire]

Final notes for GL about why a copper lynch is the right thing to do:

1) He's throttling the life out of the town. I have a hard time believing he's that oblivious to what he's done and what he's doing but he's posting the town to death. He has more posts than you and the second highest player combined and they're not just posts that are cheap and easy to read. You can see me and GM and other players all get frustrated with him drowning the town that's let this permanent malaise set in.

Just because he's really active and constantly contributing doesn't mean he's scum. I get the feeling that people just can't be bothered reading all of copper's ISO/posts due to the sheer volume of material, and so have a misguided read on him, and I think you're trying to push and further that.

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

This is a good point.

If copper is scum then it's unlikely he's going to walk in and call his scumbuddy conftown(keeping in mind his scumbuddy is a leading wagon target for the day). If copper is town then his logic here makes sense

I do think Dragon is town now, and I'd like copper lynched.

Why are you saying copper's making good points, and saying you think I'm town mostly based off what copper is saying, but still want copper lynched? That doesn't make sense to me. If you think he's scum, from your point of view you shouldn't believe anything he's saying....

[Dragonfire]

Things make Dragon more likely Town, but I want to say that as scum in the first game I played with GiF I didn't lynch uberninja when I had the chance. I NKed him.

Yeah but let's face it, there's no way copper's getting NKed tonight. If he's town, scum will definitely keep him alive as a mislynch option; the same goes for myself. IMO the NK will be on someone who's not widely suspected and doesn't come across as scummy to very many people (ie. you, Jae, GL)

[GuiltyLion]

I expect nearly all D1 lynches to hit town, it's the easiest day for scum to guide the lynch. I've repeatedly stated I'd rather lynch Accountant today.

Unless the case against someone is

really good

- and I'm not seeing that here - and it's a wagon I fully support, I figure the D1 lynch is likely to be town. The best bet is just to pick the wagon that looks the least scummy

[GuiltyLion]

tbh I'm calling Accountant and ironstove or jon but you all wanna lynch elsewhere

[copper223]

Yeah but let's face it, there's no way copper's getting NKed tonight.

Who would scum lynch if DDD flips scum?

[GuiltyLion]

also @Dragon, you've just called gm, ironstove, and myself all likely to be scum in the same post. At least one of them has to be town

[GuiltyLion]

Obviously not, if you are a town PR the last thing you want is for someone to randomly hammer you while you hesitate.

DDD is trying to buy time, then if forced he will claim VT and that he did not want to help scum by narrowing the PR pool.

No one is going to randomly hammer, the impulsive idiots are already all voting for me.

.

The implication here is: since I don't fear a random hammer (because the idiots are already voting me) I could well be a PR and behave in this manner (so bewaaaare, don't lynch meeeeeee).

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

I am still chewing on these points

[Dragonfire]

I expect nearly all D1 lynches to hit town, it's the easiest day for scum to guide the lynch. I've repeatedly stated I'd rather lynch Accountant today.

Unless the case against someone is

really good

- and I'm not seeing that here - and it's a wagon I fully support, I figure the D1 lynch is likely to be town. The best bet is just to pick the wagon that looks the least scummy

Surely you mean most scummy?

Yeah but let's face it, there's no way copper's getting NKed tonight.

Who would scum lynch if DDD flips scum?

Since I think he will flip scum, my answer would be the same as before {Jae, GL, jon}. Only I think the NK would more likely be on someone who was on his wagon

and

isn't scumread by many people, which is jon (or possibly GL if he ends up hammering DDD)

also @Dragon, you've just called gm, ironstove, and myself all likely to be scum in the same post. At least one of them has to be town

I never said they were all scum or even likely to be scum, I just called out their posts for being scummy. Scummy doesn't necessarily equal scum. For you in this instance, I was just drawing attention to something you said that could come from scum, although I can also see a town motivation for you doing it, as you outlined in post 1031. So you're not actually on the list of people I scumread. With iron, my read on him is still essentially null, but he keeps acting so scummy that I'm starting to think he might actually be scum. But GM is definitely moving onto the scummy side of the spectrum; she's the most likely to be scum out of the three of you.

[Dragonfire]

Anyway, I'm going to bed now, most probably the hammer will have fallen by the time I'm next online, so good luck town. I would advise you to hammer DDD, but I guess I've already made my opinion quite clear with regards to that and I don't want to keep repeating myself. So good luck, and please hammer right.

[GuiltyLion]

Surely you mean most scummy?

no, I am talking about the composition of the wagon

[copper223]

@GL

Debonair Danny DiPietro (4): ironstove, DragonFire, copper223, JaeReed

possible scum, compromise lynch, cross vote (both considered town), town.

vs

copper223 (4): goodmorning, jon_h61, Accountant, Debonair Danny DiPietro

No explicit read (seems like null-town to me), possible scum, strongest scumread, cross vote (both considered town).

If that's what you're basing it on they are both below average lynches but one is much better than the other.

[JaeReed]

Final notes for GL about why a copper lynch is the right thing to do:

1) He's throttling the life out of the town. I have a hard time believing he's that oblivious to what he's done and what he's doing but he's posting the town to death. He has more posts than you and the second highest player combined and they're not just posts that are cheap and easy to read. You can see me and GM and other players all get frustrated with him drowning the town that's let this permanent malaise set in.

This is how copper plays. DDD is basically campaigning something as scummy when it's something copper does all the time. This is a point for a policy lynch.

Also, Guilty, claims can clear people as VT if they claim in an undeniably town manner. In Trees I ran up ChipButty and his vt claim made me realize I fucked it up. That's a pure newbie though so might be something that only works on them.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: copper223

i get the sense that he's trying harder to stay alive than DDD

also @Jae I'm not really buying how a VT claim can clear anyone. If you don't claim when you are in danger of being hammered/deadline-lynched, you're not a PR. Simple as that

[JaeReed]

GL, if he flips town like I think he will I'm gonna be fucking pissed.

[copper223]

Excellent.

I am going to flip VT.


Everyone on the DDD wagon is confirmed town after you lynch DDD, who will flip scum.

Then you are going to lynch GL, who clearly just went against his beliefs because DDD put him in a crappy situation as his buddy.

[copper223]

VOTE: copper223

i get the sense that he's trying harder to stay alive than DDD

also @Jae I'm not really buying how a VT claim can clear anyone. If you don't claim when you are in danger of being hammered/deadline-lynched, you're not a PR. Simple as that

Exactly, so your previous post where you defend DDD is a pile of crap and this is a scum-claim.

[copper223]

GL, if he flips town like I think he will I'm gonna be fucking pissed.

I am annoyed we likely have 3 townies that have trouble wiping themselves without help.

GL just did what he had to, I think it's the right decision but he should have done so earlier, I also wouldn't have WK'd myself in the first place though so that was a mistake.

[copper223]

Maybe some PR coaching might help you as well:

- If there is a JK, throw a coin and JK one of GL and DDD. Out if no kill happens.

- If there is a tracker, throw a coin and track one of GL and DDD. Out if you get a track on GL, wait and see if DDD is lynched anyway before outing if that's who you land on.

- If there is a doc, save Jae.

- If there is a cop, cop DDD (don't be a hero and go for GL immediately, but if DDD is getting lynched anyway, something that I hope even the drooling trio will recognize as necessary, don't out and push with the rest).

Good luck Dragon and ironstove in your mafiascum adventures!

[Dragonfire]

VOTE: copper223

i get the sense that he's trying harder to stay alive than DDD

also @Jae I'm not really buying how a VT claim can clear anyone. If you don't claim when you are in danger of being hammered/deadline-lynched, you're not a PR. Simple as that

Did you see copper's earlier post, when he was put at L-1?? Did you even read that?

He's going to flip town and it will be on your head.

Excellent.

I am going to flip VT.


Everyone on the DDD wagon is confirmed town after you lynch DDD, who will flip scum.

Then you are going to lynch GL, who clearly just went against his beliefs because DDD put him in a crappy situation as his buddy.

I'm sorry it had to end this way. You played well, but it seems many of us just didn't see it.

Maybe some PR coaching might help you as well:

- If there is a JK, throw a coin and JK one of GL and DDD. Out if no kill happens.

- If there is a tracker, throw a coin and track one of GL and DDD. Out if you get a track on GL, wait and see if DDD is lynched anyway before outing if that's who you land on.

- If there is a doc, save Jae.

- If there is a cop, cop DDD (don't be a hero and go for GL immediately, but if DDD is getting lynched anyway, something that I hope even the drooling trio will recognize as necessary, don't out and push with the rest).

Good luck Dragon and ironstove in your mafiascum adventures!

Thanks, you too.

[Accountant]

Wasnt gl like "i'll nevar vote copper" earlier

[copper223]

Did you see copper's earlier post, when he was put at L-1?? Did you even read that?

This is not even a possibility, he did see it and he was aware of it and he choose to hammer without asking for a claim beforehand.