Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

Are you ithing tenshii

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Are you ithing tenshii

more like it-ithing... something feels off but I don't know what.

[Transcend]

Well I'm going out to eat and i stand by tenshii so don't hammer until i make my final plea.

[Transcend]

Urp

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Urp

is this ur final plea

[mhsmith0]

It's the dinner talking I think lol

[gigabyteTroubadour]

so are there objections to me hammering...?

[mhsmith0]

Might as well wait for trans $0.02. But I just really struggle to see how it's NOT tenshii here.

[Tenshii]

VOTE: mhsmith0

I really hate how mh just dodged everything I had on Thor completely. The fact that mh isn't even being open to the idea of Thor being scum (even after using walls of questions towards Thor) makes me sus of him. But all of Karno's actions point to Thor. So I don't really know anymore. If it's mh then mh buddying up to Thor today makes sense.

If there's any consideration left in you then reread any town case on me by Transcend, Wingback, iron, Luna. 3 of which are confirmed town. I feel like anything I'd say to directly defend myself would make you paranoid and just make you think "Oh he's just saying that as mafia." so there'd be more credibility of it coming from a conf town slot.

[Tenshii]

But I just really struggle to see how it's NOT tenshii here.

You should self vote tomorrow. Put your vote where your mouth is tomorrow for me.

[Tenshii]

I'll assume I'm just bad and Thor is town because NOBODY has agreed with me in the slightest. If I still have a say then mhsmith0 > Transcend.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

I'll assume I'm just bad and Thor is town because NOBODY has agreed with me in the slightest. If I still have a say then mhsmith0 > Transcend.

I don't really understand why scum!Karnos is going to subtlety throw shit at his own partner... In case Thor and I both make it to LYLO and you are town, I really need to understand your POV here in case Mhsmith is actually town.

[Transcend]

Just tell me where your head is leaning before you vote.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Just tell me where your head is leaning before you vote.

Tenshii>Mhsmith>I keep waffling between Thor and Transcend as the top townread but I never put much thought into it because you're probably both town anyway

[Tenshii]

Just tell me where your head is leaning before you vote.

Why is this information relevant to you? Also do you plan on making a final plea?

[mhsmith0]

I'm curious about this final plea myself. I'd like to see it get posted before giga makes hammer call. Because I really don't think tenshii has been particularly villagery this game, and think trans should actually bother to put his case together since he seems to disagree.

[Transcend]

It's mostly to attack smith but i can point out some things i think that make tenshii town. This all happens after work of course.

[mhsmith0]

Like, actually coming tonight then?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

It's mostly to attack smith but i can point out some things i think that make tenshii town. This all happens after work of course.

sounds good

[Transcend]

Like, actually coming tonight then?

Unless i get lazy after work which knowing me is a huge possibility.

[Tenshii]

Oh @Giga basically just reread my last few posts on Thor. And as for the indirect subtlety thing, it's either an honest question or a distance attempt gone wrong.

[Transcend]

Okay I'm home and I'm basically deciding if I want to go through my own ISO and compile all my thoughts into one megapost or go through smith and tenshii posts and post my thoughts on them.

[tojam2]

VC 5 - 3

mhsmith0 L-1 - Transcend, Tenshii
Tenshii L-1 - Thor665, mhsmith0

(expired on 2016-09-15 08:00:00)

[Transcend]

The spoilers that I will be posting are ENORMOUS. I do very hope you take time to read through them. I went through my entire (cancerous, my bad guys) ISO and selected posts that I think make Smith scum and Tenshii town. I was nice enough to separate them into two categories. I f***ed up the BBCode into oblivion several times attempting to trim the fat off of some of the posts so it's fairly bulky and you might have to read some of the posts closely. Okay here we go.

Spoiler: Mhsmith is scum because...

i agree that mhsmith's vote was meatless

i would rather lynch luna fox.

WK means white knighting >:)

i am the king of WKing.

The case on kts is bad. I've quickhammered my town reads before for several reasons

1. Boredom
2. Had better town reads
3. Wanted immediate information

Sometimes they flipped town sometimes they didn't.

I think things like

1. Luna Fox awkwardly hopping the karnos lynch when his attempt to rope PC failed

2. Mhsmith voting with someone he scum read

3. Giga talking to everyone like he knows they're town and voting then too

4. Thor voting with someone on mafia because "he townreads them and has a better chance of lynching mafia"

5. Rosske's bad vote hops on KTS and PC d1.

Should be considered as scum candidates. Sadly all of you want to town bloc but i would bet all my marbles scum is somewhere within this bloc.

Okay based on the reactions, Giga is solid town now. I don't think I'll change my read on this.

As for the bloc with {me, Luna, Thor, Io, Giga} I'm a bit reluctant to join because it has the person I've avidly scumread all game. I'm not too sure if I can do that. I'd be moderately okay with this bloc if Tenshii replaced Luna.

However: I wanna shift focus to mhsmith0-

All day screams

"KTS SCUM! KTS SCUM!!!!!!"

KTS claims scum as rxn test (supposedly)

"No shit he was town guys, come on"

Not sure what made him 180 so fast.

Also every vote Rosske has made is garbage.

PC slot should be replaced before lynched IMO.

PEDIT: Meh. That's strike two against MHSmith. Strike one being he voted with someone he sorta scumread.

Besides, scum are capable of trolling twilight. Whether they're the final scum or not.

I'm not too sure how MHSmith instantly assumed the slot he was lynching all day wasn't trolling twilight.

Or I'm just WIFOM'ing and confusing you because I'm the last wolf, in which case what I'm talking about carries a much different meaning.

why would you say that e_e

hold it there mhsmith

you have at the moment based on the kill tenshii/rosske as your best scum candidates

but every time i've tried to lynch rosske, you've turned your nose on it and mocked me.

why's that?

You don't seem all that sure about him given you're also scumreading mhsmith and Thor as secondary lynches. Why those two?

Thor was mostly based on d1, his vote was weird. Rest of his game is p. solid.

Mhsmith has towntold a bit, but his d1 was also weird and the way he voted karnos was weird, I can see a possible bus there. Plus he responded to KTS' flip in a weird way. Like he was an advocate for his lynch all day, KTS claims scum, mhsmith said that he was trolling. One final thing that concerns me about him, and this is recently, but he said that Rosske is in his wolf pool, but has made no conscious effort to lynch him and laughed off every attempt I've made to lynch him.

@Giga: I did tr the Kcda slot, mostly off of gut. His posting style didn't seem like that of scum, just annoying town. I had no like exact tells that made me solidly townread him. If I put a gun to my head, I'd still say his slot is town just because I think Rosske is last wolf.

PEDIT: LOL

Wing your case on smith is basically paralleled with mine. It's just my case on Rosske is about 10x heavier.

Smith, I've just realized you've been fairly neutral for today. Like you voted me for a bit and that was just for a bit. You haven't really finalized your reads from what i see. We are approaching deadline so i wanna know from you if you had to take 3 shots at one duck in this game, what would they be?

I have work today in just a bit, but giga, me and wing will not lynch tenshii and Tenshii won't lynch himself. So only way you CAN get that lynch is with Rosske and mhsmith's votes. Two of your best town reads (me/wing) after several days of analyzing have concluded that one of those two is the duck we need shot. You can deviate from our reads, but I'm feeling very confident about one of those two most likely r.

but like i said i actually trust town to win this game i think thegeneral consensus is mariaslot/mhsmith which i agree with. so like if i'm in the graveyard and one of those two slots doesn't flip scum i'm okay eating the L.

what the what

i'm not lynching tenshii unless it's tenshii/nl

i like his vote onsmith, don't think it's the correct vote though

I won't lynch Maria for the price of you not lynching tenshii.

We both vote smith aka wing's read.

I think wing has done a good job analyzing the game and has concluded with the same reads i have, just more in depth and more leaning towards smith.

I can live with smith rope, especially since i feel albeit less of a chance of ending the game than a Maria death, there's still a chance.

He's at l-2 rn so your vote and my vote would send him to the gallows.

assuming sonia flips vt and not wolf

1. Ira (I've decided there's no way this slot is scum. Period. Including the replace out, including Wing's analysis, including the little bit ira has said.)
2. Tenshii (This is my best townread that isn't confirmed town.)
3. Giga
4. Thor
5. Mhsmith

T>S don't see myself lynching the top 3 ever.

VOTE: mhsmith0

I've reread the game exactly

3

times back to front skipping a few of the long posts.

I see no slot but this flipping wolf.

Giga's lock town. He gets a W if he's wolf. That's all.

Thor vs. Tenshii reads heavily town vs. town. If I'm ever forced to lynch in that cross, I'm going with Thor.

MHSmith was sorta manipulative. The way he placed his votes this game have been somewhat awkward. It's gotta be mhsmith.

Feedback?

imagine you guys being the town that blew 5 lynches and handed scum a game.

Why do you bring this up? Especially in other posts that you make?

bored

I'm mostly just debating if I was left alive to push through Tenshii, or if I was left alive because Tenshii figures they can't afford to kill me.
The latter option requires bad logic on Tenshii's part - but that doesn't really remove it from my slate.

@Transcend - I'm debating agreeing with you that Tenshii is town.
I may want to lynch you and mhsmith in any random order that amuses me.

Why do you think mhsmith makes sense as a scumbuddy to Karnos moreson than you? He kind of had a reasonably timely push on the slot whilst you never did.

The reason mhsmith makes more sense is because I have my own POV and know I'm town. How am I supposed to answer that question?

Given that I hold the POV of no one being wolf but mhsmith after very careful rereads I think I'm okay with you lynching the two of us in any order.

I think that my flip will be helpful and you trust Tenshii because that is my dying townread so again, I'm openly welcome to rope on me.

I hate WIFOM but which one is more likely to be wolf in your books?

A. Someone who softvoted karnos
B. Someone who hard defended karnos

Most people psychologically would say answer B but karnos was clearly ailing and hard defending him like I did would mean that I'd have to survive 5 lynches with that attached to me. I don't know how I would've played this as wolf but personally, I feel like I would possibly softbus or ignore karnos if he was in deep shit as opposed to hard defending him. That was sincerely just an error on my behalf for using falsified meta hence why I've been reluctant to trust any meta this game, because it f***ed me day 1.

Now this is slight defense on me in hopes of seeing mhsmith lynched. Because I feel his flip ends the game. Obviously I'm comfortable with being lynched because I feel like you will trust my townread on Tenshii and lynch smith.

At this point Thor if you're wolf you've already won the game in my books. Same thing with Giga. I'm okay taking the loss if either of them flip wolf. I appreciate good scumplay and I try to learn from it to better my own scum game. If Tenshii flips wolf, which I heavily doubt, but if he does then I will feel really stupid and really bad.

The reason mhsmith makes more sense is because I have my own POV and know I'm town. How am I supposed to answer that question?

With a reasoned case - there are enough people alive that going 'I'm town!' still doesn't qualify as a case.
You could, naturally, present evidence to show why you're town, as that is a way to maybe show that you're town and thus mhsmith is more likely scum.

I think that my flip will be helpful and you trust Tenshii because that is my dying townread so again, I'm openly welcome to rope on me.

So you're thinking your town reads are more accurate than your scumreads?

Most people psychologically would say answer B

Yeah, I'm one of them.

but karnos was clearly ailing and hard defending him like I did would mean that I'd have to survive 5 lynches with that attached to me. I don't know how I would've played this as wolf but personally, I feel like I would possibly softbus or ignore karnos if he was in deep Smurf as opposed to hard defending him. That was sincerely just an error on my behalf for using falsified meta hence why I've been reluctant to trust any meta this game, because it S***ed me day 1.

Well, first off, I'd note you using poor meta (which I disagreed with at the time and discussed with you) does not an anti-meta case make. Functionally we have had two meta debates in this game, and I was right both times. Maybe that is random chance, sure, or maybe you think meta sucks because you use it poorly.

Why do you think Karnos was "clearly ailing" my recollection is at the time you were defending him he didn't have too many votes on him. He had like three.
Isn't that the optimal time to defend a scumbuddy?

I don't care to make a case about why I'm town, probably because I got nothing. I've given my final thoughts for the game, I don't really care to expand more, and you have the choice of sheeping me or not. I have openly welcomed rope around my neck because I don't think my mind will change as I have reread the game 3 times and I'm pretty solid on where I stand. If I'm wrong about something I'll probably beat myself up over it a few times then move on from it. This game has been long and drawn out. I have 3 solid townreads and have openly accepted losing the game to any of them. I appreciate good scum play as I've said before. Ideally I get my lynch today because unless I screwed up one of my three townreads, the game ends. I think a few people feel the same way as me, so if he gets lynched, great. If not, great. I just don't care to fight that hard anymore.

I did strongarm two horrible things this game. One- protecting karnos whoops. Two- lynching Rosskeslot whoops. I felt justified about both of those but I was just flat out wrong. Do I regret my actions? Not really. Do I wanna recover from them? Yes. Will I fight super hard? Nah. I think I'm a fair policy lynch for being so wrong this game.

Yes my townreads tend to be more accurate than my scumreads. Mathematically it's more likely to be correct on a townread than a scumread.

Consider the following:

5 players and 1 wolf, flip a coin if you declare someone is town you're 75% to be right, 25% to be wrong. If you declare someone is scum, you're 25% to be right and 75% to be wrong.

Obviously odds can't be measured legitimately in this game.

Scum tend to try very hard sometimes and blend in very well, which I believe is the case with mhsmith0. He is trying very hard. I post reads lists a lot to rely on in the future course of the game. I'm rarely wrong about someone in my highest tier. Unfortunately this game was an example where I was wrong. But in Diffusion of Power, I had MURDERCAT and Persivul as solid town and never deviated from that once. Unfortunately I misread Ranger and gave karnos a W. In my most recent newbie game, ironstove was my only solid townread. Unfortunately, I misread Joushi and he took a crap on me all game. But I was never wrong about my best townreads in those games. I was wrong about karnos being town because I used bad meta. No one's perfect. However in terms of Tenshii, I doubt that's the case this time so I heavily feel you can trust me this time. It's not a meta based read either obviously.

To each is his own about the two people I labeled. I'm not gonna harass you for thinking my actions were more scummy than his, because in hindsight they were.

He was clearly ailing because I did try to fight the BW but you guys were relentless and didn't take what I had to say to heart.

Honestly I'm having a difficult time coming up with reasons for anyone else being the last wolf. I just want a back-up plan.

Assuming mhsmith is a mislynch... Who kills Thor before LYLO and who kills me? Does anyone kill {Tenshii, Transcend} at all?

i can't see either of me/tenshii dying at night. however, i don't also think we're gonna get a night with smithrope. i think we're gonna get the pts from the host.

I know you're gonna ignore me but here's some things I think make smith scum.

- Kcda's weird actions and skating around the karnos lynch.
- mhsmith light voting karnos when Luna voted karnos as well and mhsmith was coming around her being scum.
- mhsmith being a heavy advocate of KTS!rope d2 and then when KTS trolls twilight, he immediately dismisses it as town.
- mhsmith discrediting my read on Rosske and laughing it off while simultaneously thinking he is a potential mafia candidate
- mhsmith not ever really committing to a vote. He's bounced around quite a bit and he's been non-committal.

Those were highlights I remember from my rereads but there might be more.

Last one probably just Luna or kts with the strategic hop onto the wagon (wolves usually can't resist bussing).

VOTE: killthestory

oh i found it

his vote is much worse than tenshii's here.

tenshii!town still stands

May i just remind the public that smith parked his vote on tenshii after being sure about him for quite some time only once thor voted?

Like quote me if I'm wrong but smith spent all day trying to lynch tenshii yesterday and Tenshii

did

have momentum. But the guy acquiesced to Maria who had more wifom which was Rosske who the guy laughed about my case on.

More momentum* not wifom lol

if tenshii flips and i die i want you to lynch smith fwiw.

Spoiler: Tenshii is town because...

I agree with the general Tenshii!Town theories.

PEDIT: THEN WHY IS YOUR VOTE PARKED ON THE LEADING BW IF YOU DON'T FOS THE SLOT YOU'RE VOTING NEVER MIND THE FACT YOU NEVER FOSED HIM TO BEGIN WITH?

Phantom if you don't scumread someone can you do me a solid and not vote them?

Rosske voting Io makes me not want to lynch Io anymore.

KTS my top trs are karnos and tenshii my top srs are Luna Fox and Rosske right now.

Atm nah, I have a soft town read on her. But ayy let's lynch Phantom yea?

i'd phant > karnos

but i think i'd rather lynch io or luna over phant.

Tenshii's been solid town for me all game, I don't think I'll see myself voting that slot. I even re-iso'd and concluded the same thing.

We're lynching Rosske.

Point blank.

i think that we win thegame if we rope rosske > mhsmith in any order

i think our townbloc had all town in it

and that tenshii is town

@Wing

My read on Thor d1 before Karnos flipped:

Shifty as ****. His vote was horribly placed. I still am not ENTIRELY over it.

My read on Thor now:

Given I possess a scumread on Rosske and he's tunneling Tenshii right now. I believe he's misguided town. However due to his weird d1 and his weird vote, my lynch list would be Rosske > MHSmith > Thor. Meaning if your slot, Tenshii's slot or Giga's slot is scum, I will openly lose the game, given I get those lynches.

Tenshii defending karnos is justified because not that long ago I was the Zachstralkita in my sig and he was the Transcend. He's good scum.

E f f you if you think my reads are dumb. I've genuinely had these reads all game.

Tenshii has been a tonal town read and none of his posts read fabricated.

I don't mind being lynched because this game is toxic and this host is bad, just upon my flip, please don't let newbscum Rosske take a dump on you.

Fwiw only reason i didn't sub out was because there was one scum left and i felt like i had good reads. I still do. But you guys are gonna sh** the bed.

You lynched kts solely because he lol hammered and PC because he didn't participate that much. Don't lynch people because you don't like them.

I already see a grudge lynch on me being engineered due ryu my unfavorable play. That's fine, idc, string me up. I'll chat with my homies in the dead PT while you guys get tab over like a lawn mower.

This isn't wifom either. This game is cancer. Either you have to agree with the majority or you're scum.

However, if you wish to remove your heads from y
our rectums, you could lynch Rosske who is probably last scum. I've been known to be a hit and miss player. I genuinely, genuinely, feel this will be a hit.

Oh yeah and wing is lock town too. Luna was a weirdo but I've concluded that i just didn't like their playstyle and was more prone to find their motives weird.

The thor / tenshii spat feels tvt but if one person in that duo is scum, it's thor. But I'd lynch ross and smith before touching thor. Which likely means I'll have to give a congratulatory hand shake to him if he's scum since i can't see him lynched here.

Combo of both. I think their pushes are both town motivated but just wrong. While I've had tenshii as town all game, and thor as lean town for a few days now.

Also giga: does the fact that two ducks (me and wing) that you wouldn't shoot at all game town read tenshii change your mind?

oh that's what i thought you were asking

rosske's votes with bad explanation > tenshii's weird votes with explanation that is bad but likely to come from newbtown

Hey giga do my town reads on kts and phantom and io mean anything when i say tenshii is town?

thor is a big meanie >:(

i still feel justified.

i have openly welcomed rope around my neck since about D2. i'll still welcome it if you wanna policy lynch me, just don't fuck up LYLO.

imagine you guys being the town that blew 5 lynches and handed scum a game.

@smith

bc tenshii has been my tr all game. thor has not been my tr all game. i'm openly fine losing to Tenshii if he's bum-fucked me all game.

i don't think anyone is townier than tenshii btw

what................

oh yeah tenshii protected karnos too. tenshii wasn't townread for protecting karnos on my behalf.

Nothing changes my read on tenshii at all but i just reviewed his RQS thingie because admittedly when i reread the game 3 times i skipped all the RQS posts. Anyways, I read his experience level. I thought he was a flat out noob, just like I thought Joushi was a noob. It appears Tenshii has some experience so I can't read them in a noob light anymore. I got duped by Joushi but he wasn't anywhere near a solid townread like Tenshii is right now.

i also don't understand why you're apparently upset with me about the way i have my reads. tenshii's been my best townread and nothing including all the cases made against him, and all the wrong votes he pursued has changed my mind. i don't think you're scum either thor. i don't think giga's scum either. i've given my stance. don't agree with it? fine. but it is what it is.

I've explained my read you just don't like my reasoning.

I didn't like your reasoning for lynching KTS or Tenshii, but do I respect the read? Sure I do.

Giga he just reads newbtown. I'm rarely wrong about noobs being town. Key word rarely. As I've said before, his reactions and content all appear genuine to me and I don't think his intentions this game are scum-motivated.

Anyways, I think that this is Town!Tenshii solving the game rather than Scum!Tenshii who is manipulating everyone. His actions don't feel that manipulative. And I think all the pushes he's made albeit some of them wrong (There's 9 people that can be mislynched vs. 2 people who can't) were all sincere and were all made by him to achieve his town wincon. I haven't seen him do one thing this game that doesn't make me think he's town.

Now D2 Giga was a bit scummy for me because of his opportunistic jumps on quite a few wagons. Including KTS when he said that he was town d1. However, Giga's d1 was pretty good and his vote is what engineered the karnos lynch. So his d2 scumminess is outweighed by his towny d1.

As for you Thor, I, to this date feel your vote on karnos was weird because it looked kinda lazy. "Well this slot is town and voting this slot so chances are that this slot is mafia". I don't like the way you acquiesced to karnos. However, I think your tone has been consistent and I think your efforts to lynch scum appear genuine as well.

Long story short: I do not discredit the fact that you and Giga are towny mo-fos. I agree. It's just you two have had a few weird movements this game as opposed to Tenshii who I've solidly townread all game.

And I'm far from the only person who thought Tenshii was obvious town. Ahem, may I bring your attention to the likes of Killthestory, Wingback and iraonavp?

I sincerely feel all this babbling is pointless since smith's probably last scum here.

My read on Tenshii is still the same, now that I know he's had some experience.

Okay Thor let's think of common things scum do to manipulate.

"hey you should vote this guy" is a very common one.

Tenshii DID NOT EVER tell anyone to vote his way. Tenshii did Tenshii's thing which included lots of vanity wagons that got little to no momentum. I feel Tenshii was using his vote to help him personally figure out scum. Unfortunately it resulted in a couple of mislynches and bad reads much like myself. But I'm smart enough to know town is capable of making such mistakes.

This is not a gut read honestly. The townread on Tenshii that is. That is a solid townread I've carried for about two months and nothing's changed from it.

Your case on Tenshii to me reads

well he pushed a couple of mislynches.

And that's why I haven't been too sold on it, because town mislynch all the time. Hello, look at who's talking!!!!!!

Middle of the road read means null right?

Tenshii lynching a null read sounds better than Giga lynching someone he had formerly thought was town and telling me to hammer really fast.

Oh my gosh you guys I just had a thought and this may or may not be Tenshii's answer but his best scumread at the time was PhantomCobalt, and if he voted on the Luna wagon he would've acquiesced to where his scumread was parked.

Giga where's your vote at? I don't really wanna lynch thor like tenshii wants but i definitely don't wanna lynch tenshii. Would you lynch smith?

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i was expecting to see quotes from the respective people in those spoilers, not rehashing of old quotes. Thank you though.