Newbie 1735 - Banana Split (Game Over!)

[ironstove]

It's interesting that Accountant flipped his vote to DDD and really just sheeped Jae.

Jae, Dragon, do you feel that DDD is more likely scum than GuiltyLion? The quotes posted earlier of GL demanding control of the town lynch if DDD flips town + Accountant suddenly so willing to sheep Jae is bothering me.

I'm going to UNVOTE: for now.

GL might be more likely to be scum, but copper said to not go for GL right away. Would you prefer a GL lynch?

I'm not sure. I know I wanted DDD lynched on D1, but I'm not as confident anymore in my scumread of DDD, with how confident GL and GM sound that he will flip town, I'm beginning to feel like I might have been wrong.

We have only 1 mislynch remaining, i still FOS accountant, gm, gl, and DDD, while jon is null. I had DDD as my top scum read D1, now it feels like GL has taken that spot.

What was copper's reason for us to not immediately go after GL rather than DDD?

[goodmorning]

I mean, we could be confidently wrong.

But I think this is a game where my townreads are going to be solid and my scumreads are going to be a pile of stupid.

[goodmorning]

Also that's not what jon was asking you.

[RachMarie]

VOTE COUNT 2.4 (no changes)

Debonair Danny DiPietro

(3) JaeReed, Accountant, Dragonfire

L-2

Accountant

(1) GuiltyLion

Dragonfire

(2) Jon_H61, Debonair Danny DiPietro



Not voting: GoodMorning, ironstove,

With 8 it takes 5 to lynch

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-26 09:49:24)



GuiltyLion is V/LA til Sunday September 18

[Dragonfire]

@ iron what do his think of GM's telling me 'nah' when I voted you?

Well, if you want my honest opinion, I think you're terrible if you're town because if you actually read the thread and came to the conclusion that you came to, it baffles me how your mind works.

You also did a solid job when it came to almost reversing the TR everyone had on your slot. (I wasn't and still am not one of the people TRing your slot). So,,, go you.

I agree with the second part, but not the first. iron, the only reason you haven't been lynched already is that the rest of us are experienced enough to recognise that bad / troll play =/= scum play. Insulting people is not going to make this any better. I think you're probably town, so please be sensible here. jon asked you to give your opinion on GM saying that he shouldn't vote you. What

do

you think about that? Do you think it makes GM look towny or scummy, or is it NAI to you?

I'm not sure. I know I wanted DDD lynched on D1, but I'm not as confident anymore in my scumread of DDD, with how confident GL and GM sound that he will flip town, I'm beginning to feel like I might have been wrong.

We have only 1 mislynch remaining, i still FOS accountant, gm, gl, and DDD, while jon is null. I had DDD as my top scum read D1, now it feels like GL has taken that spot.

What was copper's reason for us to not immediately go after GL rather than DDD?

That's a fair point actually, but I do feel that the number of people fighting the DDD wagon make it look more likely that he's scum. Surely if DDD is town, the scumteam would be pushing for a lynch on him, using what copper said to get an easy mislynch. Who are the people pushing him? You, me, Accountant and Jae; I know I'm town and the other three are the most likely townies out of everyone else. Since the people you FoS and the people I FoS are all either not voting DDD or actively arguing against his lynch / pushing a lynch on me, I think it looks rather suspicious, don't you? If basically everyone was advocating a lynch on him, then I'd start to worry a bit. But unless I'm totally wrong and my townreads are scum, or the scumteam are trying to stop us lynching a townie for some odd reason, then I think we're on the right track here with a DDD lynch.

[ironstove]

The number of people fighting the DDD wagon? There is only 1 other scum in this game, so the rest of the people fighting the DDD wagon are town.

And yea, playing a scummy game doesn't indicate that you're mafia, so I'd be lynched in a game full of newer players, and then they'd learn that scummy behavior is not indicative of scum.

I'm just not a towny player. I've never been this way, and I like to work on my own as both town and scum.

What do I think of GM saying to not lynch me? Nothing, it's NAI fmpov.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If you're talking about me, then stop throwing shade because nobody's "taken my argument apart" unless you count GM going "Nah, no, too reachy" to all of my posts in that rubbish wall of hers.

Bruh, I already took apart your narratives yesterday. Well enough that copper of all people abandoned you until you copied copper's ATE and copper was a sucker for anyone who played like him. Then GM decided to take your arguments apart line by line. And then I killed your latest argument where you claimed that X meant I had to be scum, but I provided scenarios Y and Z where I could be town and you don't bother arguing why Y or Z aren't likely beyond blandly restating that you think I'm scum.

And the embarrassing thing is that you're the only one pretending to try, you're getting decimated but iron doesn't even try to make arguments, Jae just points at copper like copper knew wtf he was doing and even worse Accountant just points at Jae like Jae knows what he's doing. If this is representative of the current state of the site, it's horrific.

[Dragonfire]

The number of people fighting the DDD wagon? There is only 1 other scum in this game, so the rest of the people fighting the DDD wagon are town.

Yes, but scum can very easily get townies on their side by sowing dissent and convincing others to their cause.

And yea, playing a scummy game doesn't indicate that you're mafia, so I'd be lynched in a game full of newer players, and then they'd learn that scummy behavior is not indicative of scum.

I'm just not a towny player. I've never been this way, and I like to work on my own as both town and scum.

What do I think of GM saying to not lynch me? Nothing, it's NAI fmpov.

I agree. It could be town defending a townread, or scum WK'ing, but since it could have scum or town motivations it's NAI for me.

If you're talking about me, then stop throwing shade because nobody's "taken my argument apart" unless you count GM going "Nah, no, too reachy" to all of my posts in that rubbish wall of hers.

Bruh, I already took apart your narratives yesterday. Well enough that copper of all people abandoned you until you copied copper's ATE and copper was a sucker for anyone who played like him. Then GM decided to take your arguments apart line by line. And then I killed your latest argument where you claimed that X meant I had to be scum, but I provided scenarios Y and Z where I could be town and you don't bother arguing why Y or Z aren't likely beyond blandly restating that you think I'm scum.

How did I copy copper's AtE? Yesterday when I got put at L-1 I wasn't even trying to save myself anymore. I just wanted to be out of this stupid game and frankly, I'm rather angry that copper was lynched and not me. That wasn't AtE at all. Read D4 of my scum-game on here to see what me AtE'ing as scum actually looks like.

And the embarrassing thing is that you're the only one pretending to try, you're getting decimated but iron doesn't even try to make arguments, Jae just points at copper like copper knew wtf he was doing and even worse Accountant just points at Jae like Jae knows what he's doing. If this is representative of the current state of the site, it's horrific.

To

decimate

= kill one in every ten of (a group of people, originally a mutinous Roman legion) as a punishment for the whole group.

copper did know what he was doing though; that's why you were pushing so hard against him and that's why you're pushing so hard against me too. So does Jae.

[Dragonfire]

Bruh, I already took apart your narratives yesterday. Well enough that copper of all people abandoned you until you copied copper's ATE and copper was a sucker for anyone who played like him. Then GM decided to take your arguments apart line by line. And then I killed your latest argument where you claimed that X meant I had to be scum, but I provided scenarios Y and Z where I could be town and you don't bother arguing why Y or Z aren't likely beyond blandly restating that you think I'm scum.

Scenario Z, which I assume you gave me to attempt to persuade me that you're town,

rests on you being town

. That's the logical pit that you stumbled into.

[JaeReed]

@Iron just decided to quote from copper so it's all in the spoiler but basically the strongest reasoning for GL scum was DDD his partner. It feels like he's wifoming here and doing everything he can to stop the scum ship from sinking.

Spoiler:

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

As far as I am concerned I am working with an extra town flip on Dragon compared to the rest of you, and that's why I am now certain that DDD is scum.

Reasoning for Dragon town, which means there were two counterwagons on town D1. Most likely DDD is scum.

Everyone on the DDD wagon is confirmed town after you lynch DDD, who will flip scum.

Then you are going to lynch GL, who clearly just went against his beliefs because DDD put him in a crappy situation as his buddy.

Reasoning for GL!scum based off DDD!buddy, push for DDD to be lynched first.

Maybe some PR coaching might help you as well:

- If there is a JK, throw a coin and JK one of GL and DDD. Out if no kill happens.

- If there is a tracker, throw a coin and track one of GL and DDD. Out if you get a track on GL, wait and see if DDD is lynched anyway before outing if that's who you land on.

- If there is a doc, save Jae.

- If there is a cop, cop DDD (don't be a hero and go for GL immediately, but if DDD is getting lynched anyway, something that I hope even the drooling trio will recognize as necessary, don't out and push with the rest).

Here he specifies to not go for GL immediately if copping, and that DDD should be lynched anyway this day phase without having to claim.

In the Orwellian world where GL just had a brain-fart and DDD flips town, Dragon is the obvious follow-up lynch (and he just gave up before with a bit of WIFOM about me being town and got INSANELY lucky), his most likely buddy in this case is GM.

The above is a super marginal case (<5%) though so START WITH DDD.

Here he specifies to start with DDD in no uncertain terms.

[goodmorning]

guys, please

associatives before flips are worse than the Orlando City game I just witnessed


and i say witnessed instead of saw




because it was literally a crime

[jon_h61]

Also, you never said why you think he's town.

No one, not even copper, has shown me a credible case on DDD. That in itself doesn't make him Town, but (i) still disagree with the whole case on him, from beginning to end. Jae says he wants to follow copper's plan, but doesn't seem too concerned with if anyone else followed his plan.

I'm assuming no one has a guilty on him, so if we have a cop that did follow copper's plan that's even more evidence I'm right. If cop has an innocent,by all means stay quiet.

[Accountant]

guys, please

associatives before flips are worse than the Orlando City game I just witnessed


and i say witnessed instead of saw




because it was literally a crime

Lol

[ironstove]

VOTE: DDD

[Dragonfire]

Also, you never said why you think he's town.

No one, not even copper, has shown me a credible case on DDD. That in itself doesn't make him Town, but (i) still disagree with the whole case on him, from beginning to end. Jae says he wants to follow copper's plan, but doesn't seem too concerned with if anyone else followed his plan.

I'm assuming no one has a guilty on him, so if we have a cop that did follow copper's plan that's even more evidence I'm right. If cop has an innocent,by all means stay quiet.

Don't try to get PRs to out. If there is a cop with a guilty on DDD or another PR with incriminating evidence against him, they should stay quiet and just vote him, or say they think he's scum. Since it's likely he's getting lynched anyway, there's no point in forcing a PR to out. However, if there's a cop with an innocent result on DDD then they definitely should out because that might prevent us from lynching a townie. Similarly, if for some reason we end up wagoning someone who isn't DDD, a cop with guilty on DDD should out at that point and get us to switch the lynch.

If we have a tracker, a "no visit" result doesn't mean that the target is innocent; especially if you tracked someone who's widely scumread, since if they're scum it's highly likely that the less scummy person would perform the kill for that reason.

[RachMarie]

VOTE COUNT 2.5

Debonair Danny DiPietro

(4) JaeReed, Accountant, Dragonfire, ironstove

L-1!

Accountant

(1) GuiltyLion

Dragonfire

(2) Jon_H61, Debonair Danny DiPietro



Not voting: GoodMorning,

With 8 it takes 5 to lynch

The deadline is in (expired on 2016-09-26 09:49:24)



GuiltyLion is V/LA til Sunday September 18

[goodmorning]

@Dragon: On the other hand, if the less scummy partner is a universal Townread, they're more likely to be JK'd (for protection), and Scum don't know the setup.

[Dragonfire]

@Dragon: On the other hand, if the less scummy partner is a universal Townread, they're more likely to be JK'd (for protection), and Scum don't know the setup.

Yeah, I guess, although nobody's universally townread in this game and so it wouldn't be an issue. If scum happen to have a roleblocker, then they have a pretty good guess of the setup as it is. In my scum-game, we always had the less scummy person perform the kill, because of the risk of a tracker or JK targeting players they find scummy.

[ironstove]

Jon or GM switch to DDD please.

[goodmorning]

I don't want to.

If he does by some miracle flip Scum, Jae will never listen to a word from anyone but copper at any point.

If I'm right and he does flip Town, it puts us in MyLo, probably, plus I've lynched someone I think is Town who's also reasonable, which in this game is a MASSIVE UNLIKELIHOOD.

[Accountant]

Do any of the ppl voting dragon have a response to copper's post about why dragon is town

[goodmorning]

which post is that? i stopped reading most of copper's after the third time he insulted me.

[Accountant]

Dragon had the chance to freely vote me and place me at L-1 with at least 1 player ready to hammer (DDD), instead chose to claim VT, tell the rest of you not to lynch me and he hasn't checked the thread since, does that sound like something scum would do to their competing town wagon?

[goodmorning]

No reason for Scum not to do it - nobody believes what the universal scumread says or acts on it in any way, and as an added bonus he gets to hold the WK card if copper does go down, as looked pretty inevitable at that point.

Or he could have done what copper suggests there - suddenly reverse himself and put copper at L-1 as if nobody here thinks inconsistency is a scumtell.

Weirdly, I don't think Dragon is that stupid.

[GuiltyLion]

Im sheeping jae

Going to be honest here guys this isn't a game that motivates me strongly due to how messy it is so imma go ahead and sheep who I know is town

ew

jon is town, gm is town, jae is town, iron is town but a dick.

That leaves DDD, Dragon, Guilty as scum bucket. If Jae wants to lynch DDD, I'm fine with this.

remember when you said I was town because of your meta-read about my habits as scum? Which I said sounded like an extremely fake townread? what happened to that?